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Messages - armin

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中文(Chinese) / Re: 【讨论】后BSIP42时代bitCNY的规则改进
« on: January 01, 2019, 05:00:36 am »
Ni hao

@alt, did you count target CR as well?
for now, the feed price is 0.2727, count target CR, there are totally 4.5M bitcny in force margin call state,

Actually, I calculated it higher than web wallet still. For feed 0.2642, I got 8.855m CNY in called state when accounting for target_collateral_ratio.


For each call order,

if callOrder has target_collateral_ratio key,
target = (get target_collateral_ratio) / 1000
requiredCollat = target * debt
currentCollat = collateral * feed_price
delta = requiredCollat - normalizedCollat
marginCall += delta

requiredCollat come from this equation, for example:

1.5 MCR = 75K CNY in collateral / 50k CNY debt

1.76 MCR = 88K CNY in collateral / 50K CNY debt

Here, requiredCollat is 1.76 * 50K = 88K CNY

thank you, let me verify.

The high feed/low mssr (cause effectively the same outcome) is what has allowed undercollateralization in bitUSD for an artificially long time, leading to a black swan. There was no black swan before. If MCR is immediately increased by selling the BTS collateral, then black swan cannot occur.

Please do not post biased opinions, think clearly, this thread is for Proxies reply only

I think Thul3 has made a Proxy so it is fine

General Discussion / Re: Why Need BSIP For Everything?
« on: December 30, 2018, 05:16:44 pm »
IMO all witnesses should provide feeds that are based on the same underlying principles. It is a good thing to define these principles in the form of BSIPs, and let the witnesses handle the details themselves.

For example, if some witnesses follow BSIP-42 and some don't, there is the danger that the median feed jumps back and forth between two values that are relatively far apart. This would probably disrupt the markets and would also increase the danger of a global settlement.

True, this happened earlier when some witnesses were providing crazy high feeds and some were providing normal feeds. There should be some clear consensus on what the terms "feed" and "mssr" mean. I think mssr is quite obvious, but feed had recently been redefined to something else, which is dangerous to the system 

EDIT: Actually, if some witnesses disagreed with BSIP42, they could feed much lower than the "normal" price to offset the high feeds. This is the meaning of decentralization. You are still correct that the feed would jump, but this problem is solved by having more delegates

I'm keen on understanding if this is displayed wrong in the GUI.
How did you get to these numbers and did you account for the "Target collateral ratio"?

Armin, you missed one possible scenario I think.

4) A position updated their target collateral ratio, removing some of the required sell to reach collateral ratio.

Say that one position doesn't have a target at all, then the whole position will be put to market (as long as they are under MCR I believe). If a position has a target on the other hand, it will only put so much on the market that is required to reach MCR ratio.

Please tell me if I'm wrong, but that's how I understood it to work.

Yes you are correct, I did not account this into my calculation, I will try to see if I can calculate it with the target CR as well.

yes I see the GUI keep changing margin call from 50m BTS to 30m BTS, looks like a bug. You calculate the correct amount using api call?
yes, there are about 20M bitCNY debt in the state "margin call" right now. for the feed price 0.2733

@alt, did you count target CR as well?

Increase MSSR to 110% (slow debt eating) or 115% (aggressive eating), will cause margin call to be eaten

BTS holders should be prepared to be hurt in the short term though, but it will be better for the price in the end

Not saying it should be done, that's why I'm asking for Proxies consensus

General Discussion / Re: Why Need BSIP For Everything?
« on: December 30, 2018, 05:22:34 am »
Maybe there's a reason it was originally like that, maybe not. We need the true vision.

Good conversation, other community members please give your opinions

General Discussion / Re: Why Need BSIP For Everything?
« on: December 30, 2018, 05:09:34 am »
They have the ability to change feed/mssr however they like, if you want to use BSIP for everything, feed/mssr should be set by proxies instead. What's the point in witnesses just copying the proxies decision? May as well just set the numbers themselves

General Discussion / Why Need BSIP For Everything?
« on: December 30, 2018, 04:54:23 am »
It seems like every time the proxies want witnesses to make a change, they write a BSIP for the witnesses to make the change.

The witnesses are already voted in and have the ability to change the feed/mssr however they like, if proxies do not like what a witness is doing, they can just vote him out.

BSIP stands for BitShares Improvement Proposal and changing parameters is not an improvement/feature, it is simply a tuning of numbers.

In fact, it is much better if witnesses decide parameters on their own (AND on their own opinion), this way we are more robust to decisions that could be destructive to Bitshares because some witnesses will disagree and tune their parameters accordingly

Please share your thoughts.


I don't think "whether you want margin call orders be eaten" is a senseful question.

If you allow margin call to be eaten, it won't go to black swan in the first place because it will recollateralize. This is why I'm asking this question

I am considering to draft a BSIP to request witnesses to ensure the feed price be higher than the global settlement price, to avoid the global settlement to happen.

If global market cap drops further, it will black swan before you can change anything. If global market cap increases, it will recollateralize by itself.

You can prevent global settlement in 2 ways: Either put a higher feed than the actual market price, or force the margin call to be eaten and debt positions increase their MCR My question is, which one will you take?

Your current policy makes it look like you don't want margin call to be eaten (since you decreased MSSR to 105%), instead you want to prevent a black swan on bitCNY, correct?

Do any of the Proxies have plans to make the margin call eaten?

Please give your honest opinions on which is your desired outcome

I just calculated it and it comes down to 12.2m CNY/47M BTS, how did you get the 20M CNY number?

Actually I have an old wallet from before that also says 12.2m (seems like the calculation broke in recent releases?)

But u are right, web wallet is wrong still

yes I see the GUI keep changing margin call from 50m BTS to 30m BTS, looks like a bug. You calculate the correct amount using api call?

General Discussion / Re: Question To All Active Witnesses #2
« on: December 28, 2018, 11:25:19 pm »
If all witnesses feed 0.1 right now, the wall will be eaten

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