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General Discussion / Re: What's happening with the price?
« on: April 03, 2015, 04:29:31 pm »correlation != causation
Agreed, interesting nonetheless.
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Agreed, interesting nonetheless.
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General Discussion / Re: Sold all of my Bitshares
« on: March 08, 2015, 03:10:38 pm »There for sure is a balance / trade off between voting/forging participation and decentralization in any POS system.
As you lose decentralization, you diminish the value proposition of the Bitshares network.
That depends on whether or not the network already has too much decentralization. I would argue the network has significant value even if it is completely centralized in the hands of a single delegate.
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What's the value in using a single delegate Bitshares system over something like Ripple or a centralized exchange?
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General Discussion / Re: Sold all of my Bitshares
« on: March 08, 2015, 02:23:50 pm »There for sure is a balance / trade off between voting/forging participation and decentralization in any POS system.
As you lose decentralization, you diminish the value proposition of the Bitshares network.
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General Discussion / Re: Sold all of my Bitshares
« on: March 08, 2015, 01:25:42 am »All moralizing judgments aside (economics and psychology of envy) having large stakeholders is good for a DPOS system because the higher the stake the more motivated the parties are to vote and the more secure and competitive is the network/blockchain....
It has become obvious through the recent happenings on these forums that a large bulk of Bitshares in circulation are held by a somewhat small group of investors who have successfully gagged the developers ...
No investor like a coin that is controlled by a small group of people. The fact has to be verified. If this is true, there needs to be transparency on when this control is over.
I believe it actually the opposite and investors love when whales take positions. Look at how stocks react when Icahn or other big hedge funds take a large position. Most rocket up when the reports come out. Most investors feel comfort when they follow a whale
So be happy about the few that take the risk and put in the work.
It's the same for (NXT like) POS but there it would additionally be beneficial / necessary if the large stakeholders had all (roughly) the same stake size so not only one / the biggest stakeholders would produce blocks.
Not sure I follow your logic. If security becomes greater the larger the stakeholder, inevitably, this would mean the most secure DPOS system is where a single stakeholder owns most if not all Bitshares. The super stakeholder would then be the most motivated party to vote to keep control of the network.
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General Discussion / Re: Sold all of my Bitshares
« on: March 06, 2015, 04:11:00 pm »You sold at the bottom.$0.01 per bts is ridiculously cheap.
Is it?
Calling the bottom here is pretty bold as far as I can tell. Bitshares competitors (NXT, NuShares, Counterparty) are all trading well below the current $25 million market cap. It has become obvious through the recent happenings on these forums that a large bulk of Bitshares in circulation are held by a somewhat small group of investors who have successfully gagged the developers from speaking their minds on this forum. Whether the developers did this voluntarily (which I think is most likely the case because they are also large holders) is irrelevant. The results are the same.
This is not the formula for a healthy ecosystem and is starting to result in people losing interest (the value of the individual user in the network should not be underestimated). Recent developments in the bitcoin ecosystem (http://www.nasdaq.com/article/the-first-bitcoin-etf-offers-easy-way-to-profit-from-virtual-currency-gbtc-cm450589) will likely have people questioning the value of maintaining an unproven Bitshares position.
I've also decided to sit on the sideline for a while to see how this all plays out.
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General Discussion / Re: Bytemaster and Mumble - A Proposed Solution
« on: March 02, 2015, 05:30:15 pm »
What is the basic premise behind the recent censorship proposals? I suggest identifying all stakeholders then checking that premise.
A simple SWOT analysis would help to better understand the underlying issue.
A simple SWOT analysis would help to better understand the underlying issue.
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General Discussion / Re: cn-members is abusing his mod powers
« on: February 25, 2015, 08:26:03 pm »
That's the second reference to Toast's "infamous" post. I'm pretty bummed I don't get to read it.
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General Discussion / Re: Why did the mods delete the Spokesman post?
« on: February 25, 2015, 07:37:38 pm »
Whether it was a misunderstanding or not, there was some frank discussion going on about the future of the community.
Seems to me removing it (or moving it somewhere no one can view it) is exactly what some of us were arguing against.
Seems to me removing it (or moving it somewhere no one can view it) is exactly what some of us were arguing against.
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General Discussion / Re: The BitShares Online Web Wallet is ready...
« on: February 25, 2015, 07:15:28 pm »
Great work!
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General Discussion / Why did the mods delete the Spokesman post?
« on: February 25, 2015, 07:13:19 pm »
Come on guys, what gives?
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General Discussion / Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
« on: February 25, 2015, 04:53:10 pm »I like to know what kind of effort will raise market cap .
It is needed badly now more than ever . So , you input ?
I would start with a clear development road map. See MaidSafe for example, http://maidsafe.net/roadmap.
It is uncertainty that shakes most investors and the market in general. Constantly changing direction under the guise of "growing up" is just confusing. Develop a road map and stick to it. The other 2.0 projects have for the most part been very clear as to their goals and how they plan to get there.
That being said, as much as most here don't want to admit, so goes the market value of Bitcoin so goes the market value of other blockchain tech. There is not a lot the Bitshares community can do to change this. This is a long term investment, and a very risky one at that. It's a fool's errand to try and analyze what affects the market cap on a day to day basis.
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General Discussion / Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
« on: February 25, 2015, 03:30:16 pm »You're assuming there will be enough budget for further development for this complicated project with over 1 million lines of code if major investors keep leaving . Especially when we're on the edge of competing with several other 2.0 projects .
Once you can get more free developers in here to ensure the future of the development budget , your point would be more valid . Or better yet , become one , see if you would still act like anything would be normal if investors keep leaving .
You can't expect to benefit from the investors through AGS , dilution and thus has the advantage over all the other projects while expecting things to be perfect once you kick them out . BitShares is where it is now majorly because of the serious investors so that we could afford a dream team in the first place .
This is a company , it's suppose to gain the mass investors , users , and network effect . That's what we've been told during the merger .
I don't think actual network effect can be accomplished if we want to kick the big investors out .
Although , I'm not sure if you're understand "big holder" correctly . .
From my understanding , they're building a whole industry for BitShares , including network effects , relationships with business , it's not the kind of simple "buyer" you're think of . Their efforts matters more than your typical big holders .
This is not a company in the traditional sense. It is a peer to peer software package. If these large investors liquidate their holdings, there is another party or parties on the other end of that transaction. It does not destroy the network. Handcuffing developers weakens the network. Not being open with the community weakens the network. Relying on a "spokesman" to disseminate ideas and information weakens the network.
You are assuming the "spokesman" approach is the only way to raise market cap (which in turn increases developer pay). I think this is naive and you are pandering to a group that does not decide the success of the network.
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General Discussion / Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
« on: February 25, 2015, 02:32:42 pm »The problem with forum is , everyone assume it's a "open communication" while in fact just a few people participate in the discussions . Developers spent their time to discuss with a few people , but the consequence is for the majority of the shareholders to handle , let alone for those don't even have time to go to the forum in the first place . So in the end , a place is supposed to be a open communication channel becomes the stage for a few people while they don't even take the discussions seriously .
Sometimes I see more effective discussions on Skype , mumble , nullstreet , etc ...
If you want what to be in the action , joint the action . No one is forbidding you to talk to the developers privately through all kinds of channels .
I don't disagree that the forum can be disorganized at times and is not perfect regarding dissemination of ideas. That is not the issue here.
The issue, as it appears to me, is that the plan going forward is for this "spokesman" to be a filter for all public discussion and comments made by core developers. This is an unnecessary bottleneck and will likely do more harm than good. It seems like a desperation move to appease a handful of large holders of Bitshares. Honestly, if these large holders don't like the developers talking to the community in an open forum they should liquidate their holdings. Bending to the will of these large holders and putting a leash on the developers seems to me to go against the core values of Bitshares.
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General Discussion / Re: Bitshares now has a professional PR initiative
« on: February 25, 2015, 01:39:40 pm »Sooo who's the all powerful gatekeeper of ideas?
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Everyone cares for the future of this project and with the interest , time and devotion is the gatekeeper .
Are you interested ? There is place for you and other long term members .
The forum is the issue here , not the action . We can communicate ideas in a more effective way in other places, just not able to do it on the forum without damage for a long time .
It was not clear from the post (which is now removed so I can't refer back to it) that it is the forum itself that is the issue. I can appreciate Dan's comment that people spend an inordinate amount of time on the forums but that is not what the tone of that blog post portrayed.
Everyone needs to understand that you have zero control over the market cap by trying to filter the ideas of developers. Anyone hoping to make a quick profit will be flushed out. The open flow of communication is what drew me in to Bitshares in the first place (obviously I can't speak for everyone else but that seems to be the general sentiment).
