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Messages - wasthatawolf

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106
General Discussion / Re: BitUSD across DACs
« on: October 23, 2014, 01:24:06 pm »
Quote from: xeroc on October 23, 2014, 07:08:49 am
you cannot move bitUSD from one DAC INTO another DAC ... you can trade 1:1 between DACs ..

the amount of bitUSD in BTSX will always be completely backed by BTSX .. same holds for any other chain ..

you can think of a second market maker .. that trades bitUSD back an forth between chains .. while achieving a few percent profit ... inter DAC bitUSD trades might not be 1:1 .. because they require additional complexity/work ..

have you ever transfered money internationally?! same thing!

But you can't trade 1:1 between DACs, and there is potential for a significant spread.  If BitsharesX becomes wildly successful and Peertracks doesn't gain traction, then the large difference in volume on the internal exchanges of each chain could produce spreads in excess of 10%. 

So imagine you are a new user of both Bitshares and Peertracks and this difference has not been clearly expressed or stated.  Lets also assume there are easy to use gateways into each chain via credit card as well as a "transfer BitUSD" feature built into each application that executes BitUSD trades between chains for you on the backend at the current market rate. 

You "deposit" $100 from your credit card into Peertracks, and in return you receive 100 BitUSD (but for all intents and purposes this is PeertracksUSD).  You buy some music then decide that you want to "transfer" the remaining BitUSD over to your Bitshares account.  After completing the "transfer" you notice that you were charged a "fee" (which is really just the spread between the PeertracksUSD and BitsharesUSD).  Even if the spread is 5%, you've just significantly soured the relationship with and completely confused the user. 

107
General Discussion / Re: BitUSD across DACs
« on: October 22, 2014, 10:32:08 pm »
Quote from: mf-tzo on October 22, 2014, 10:16:58 pm
Quote
There should never be two different bitUSD's with the same name. That will never be clear. It will confuse people and hurt all DACs involved with bitUSD

You do realise that you already trade everyday thousands different usd right?
bitstamp usd
krakenusd
bterusd
bankofamericausd
bankofenglandusd
.....

the list is endless...

The only way the different USD listed above are equivalent to BitUSD is if you can move BitUSD between chains.

108
General Discussion / Re: BitUSD across DACs
« on: October 22, 2014, 10:10:43 pm »
Quote from: teenagecheese on October 22, 2014, 09:44:10 pm
There should never be two different bitUSD's with the same name. That will never be clear. It will confuse people and hurt all DACs involved with bitUSD

Exactly, and BitUSD should not be marketed as a single, fungible asset.

109
General Discussion / Re: BitUSD across DACs
« on: October 22, 2014, 09:36:30 pm »
Quote from: teenagecheese on October 22, 2014, 09:30:12 pm
Quote from: xeroc on October 22, 2014, 09:08:40 pm
Quote from: teenagecheese on October 22, 2014, 08:56:58 pm
Also, is peertracks really going to have to have their own BitUSD exchange and trading system to achieve market peg just like Bitshares X? Maybe I'm wrong about that? If I'm not that is a ridiculous and inefficient way of doing things. A music company should not have to also worry about stabilizing their currency which they use to sell their product.
There is no other way to value 'NOTES' against USD .. on the exchange directly .. if you thing about it ..

What you will see is basically TWO exchanges .. that both trade the same altcoin bitasset ...
they may differ in volume ..

Thanks for the answer. That is what I was scared of. They must find another way to do it.

Either somehow value NOTES against bitUSD on bitshares-x and cross-chain trade, or maybe the peershares blockchain can query the BTS blockchain somehow. I don't know technically what it needs to be, but I do know having peertracks have its own exchange is not a good plan. Like I said: It is inneficient. It is unintuitive. It actually hurts everyone by increasing confusion and making for lower liquidity on both sides. Exchanges should be exchanges and music stores should be music stores. You should not have two entities doing the same task of establishing the peg and providing liquidity to bitUSD.

Does no one else agree with me?

I guess a good question is should NOTES (and other tokens) even be allowed to be used as collateral to create bitUSD. Maybe, but it should only be on the bitshares-exchange because that is the only place it makes sense to do it on. If it can't be done that way then the system needs to be changed.

I think this is more of a marketing/messaging problem.  If the sole purpose of BitUSD is to eliminate the volatility associated with using the native token of a DAC, then I don't see a big issue with each DAC having it's own internal exchange to allow for BitUSD.  But it should be ABUNDANTLY CLEAR that BitUSD on Peernotes is not the same as BitUSD on BitsharesX (or the new Bitshares) which is not that same as the BitUSD in any future DAC.

110
General Discussion / Re: BitUSD across DACs
« on: October 22, 2014, 09:29:56 pm »
Quote from: xeroc on October 22, 2014, 09:16:39 pm
Quote from: wasthatawolf on October 22, 2014, 09:11:05 pm
Without cross chain trading, the bitassets are not the same.  They only share the same peg.
We had plenty of discussions like these ... the only difference IMHO .. is liquidity and thus spread .. ... and maybe yield ..
besides that .. 1bitUSD = 1USD .. no matter the collateral

They aren't fungible and shouldn't be called the same thing.  It would be a lot clearer if the assets were called PeernotesUSD and BitsharesUSD.  Calling both assets BitUSD will only confuse potential users. 


111
General Discussion / Re: BitUSD across DACs
« on: October 22, 2014, 09:11:05 pm »
Quote from: xeroc on October 22, 2014, 09:08:40 pm
Quote from: teenagecheese on October 22, 2014, 08:56:58 pm
Also, is peertracks really going to have to have their own BitUSD exchange and trading system to achieve market peg just like Bitshares X? Maybe I'm wrong about that? If I'm not that is a ridiculous and inefficient way of doing things. A music company should not have to also worry about stabilizing their currency which they use to sell their product.
There is no other way to value 'NOTES' against USD .. on the exchange directly .. if you thing about it ..

What you will see is basically TWO exchanges .. that both trade the same altcoin bitasset ...
they may differ in volume ..

Without cross chain trading, the bitassets are not the same.  They only share the same peg.

112
General Discussion / Re: BitUSD across DACs
« on: October 22, 2014, 08:41:43 pm »
Quote from: Stan on October 22, 2014, 07:47:28 pm
Quote from: donkeypong on October 22, 2014, 07:32:22 pm
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=9874

Pretty sure devs are working on it. I can't find the post where BM said this, but I seem to recall that he did. Link above to another discussion.

Eventually we will develop better and better ways to "wire" bitAssets from one DAC or SuperDAC Business District (Mall) to another.  But it will probably always be most efficient to do "high frequency trading" within a DAC or Business District.

So we start by engineering the first SuperDAC Business District - BitShares. 

As the industry grows, we'll worry about, um, SWIFT-ish interconnections.

I'm a little surprised that a protocol for atomic cross chain transfer of BitUSD isn't a higher priority. 

If all BitUSD isn't created equal, how do you expect to sell the idea of BitUSD to the general public?  Especially since Peertracks will exist as a separate entity even if the proposed merger goes through.

113
General Discussion / Re: BitUSD across DACs
« on: October 22, 2014, 06:55:05 pm »
Quote from: biophil on October 22, 2014, 06:46:24 pm
Quote from: wasthatawolf on October 22, 2014, 06:44:35 pm
I was listening to the Bitcoins and Gravy interview with the guys from Peertracks and they mentioned that BitUSD will be utilized as the main form of payment on Peertracks.  I want to make sure I understand this correctly...

  • BitUSD exists on the BitsharesX block chain collateralized by BTSX.
  • BitUSD exists on the Peertracks block chain collateralized by NOTES?

If the above is accurate, can BitUSD move between the BTSX and the NOTES chains?

That's the idea, but keep in mind that this is all subject to change. They just merged several other DACs to fix this particular issue, so don't be surprised if we see a BTS/MUSIC merger down the road at some point.

I haven't been on the forum for a few weeks and I'm just now reading about this merger.  Can you give me the TL;DR?  Is everything going to be running off of one block chain?

114
General Discussion / BitUSD across DACs
« on: October 22, 2014, 06:44:35 pm »
I was listening to the Bitcoins and Gravy interview with the guys from Peertracks and they mentioned that BitUSD will be utilized as the main form of payment on Peertracks.  I want to make sure I understand this correctly...

  • BitUSD exists on the BitsharesX block chain collateralized by BTSX.
  • BitUSD exists on the Peertracks block chain collateralized by NOTES?

If the above is accurate, can BitUSD move between the BTSX and the NOTES chains?

115
Technical Support / Re: !!! Stupid Questions Thread !!!
« on: September 16, 2014, 09:46:52 pm »
If all BitUSD is created from shorts, executed at different exchange rates to BTSX, how does BitUSD remain fungible as the exchange rate fluctuates? 

If it drops by 50% and there's an automatic margin call on a short, what happens to the BitUSD that were created from that short?  I feel like I'm failing to understand a key concept...

116
General Discussion / Re: BitsharesX web based block explorer
« on: August 30, 2014, 02:41:56 pm »
Quote from: emski on August 29, 2014, 02:52:03 pm
Quote from: svk on August 29, 2014, 02:43:59 pm
Quote from: wasthatawolf on August 27, 2014, 01:30:54 pm
Has anyone developed a web based block explorer for BitsharesX? 

Specifically, I'm looking for an API that I can use for project development.

Like xeroc said I'm not currently offering an open API, although I might consider doing so if there's enough interest for it. The RPC interface is very easy to use anyway so you might be better off just running one yourself.

Are you looking for some specific info?

The issue with rpc is that the user needs to setup and keep a node updated.

I don't really have any desire to maintain a node.  I'm basically looking for the information you would find in any exchange API but for the internal BitsharesX exchange (current buy and sell orders, last price, trading volume, etc.)  I'd like to put together a site that displays the internal market data real time with data from Bter.

117
General Discussion / BitsharesX web based block explorer
« on: August 27, 2014, 01:30:54 pm »
Has anyone developed a web based block explorer for BitsharesX? 

Specifically, I'm looking for an API that I can use for project development.

118
General Discussion / Re: BitUSD/BTC BitUSD/USD markets are ready on Bter.com
« on: August 27, 2014, 01:26:09 pm »
Quote from: freeworm on August 26, 2014, 08:38:32 pm
Quote from: wasthatawolf on August 26, 2014, 01:16:23 am
Quote from: happypatty on August 26, 2014, 01:03:50 am
Should have done BTC/BITUSD instead of BITUSD/BTC, given that, this is the price most exchanges use. It is quite confusing because now people have to change the price from X to 1/X.

I agree, this should definitely be adjusted.

OK, adjusted.

Awesome!

119
General Discussion / Re: Anyone want to sell BTSX today for CASH!?
« on: August 27, 2014, 04:17:12 am »

Quote from: MktDirector on August 22, 2014, 12:24:44 am
Yeah, bytemaster said bitUSD should be the gateway (bitDrug).  Then if people want BTSX, easy to trade for.  B

100% agree, people already know what a dollar is and it's purchasing power.  Seeing bitusd for usd on Bter for the first time was really a surreal moment for me.  This is really game changing technology.

120
General Discussion / Re: BitUSD/BTC BitUSD/USD markets are ready on Bter.com
« on: August 26, 2014, 01:16:23 am »
Quote from: happypatty on August 26, 2014, 01:03:50 am
Should have done BTC/BITUSD instead of BITUSD/BTC, given that, this is the price most exchanges use. It is quite confusing because now people have to change the price from X to 1/X.

I agree, this should definitely be adjusted.

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