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Messages - yvv

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121
By the way, I can't try you magicwallet because I can't read Chinese, but I feel that this is an awesome project. The problem which you have with peg offset is natural, because you will always have disbalance between deposits/withdrawals, you just need to think out the best solution for it without rush. Do it right and you'll be the kings.

122
The peg at your ramp (or whoever runs it) is off because deposit and withdrawal volumes are different. This has nothing to do with price feed or fairness. And anyway, you should not address the problems of your ramp by screwing up a committee token. Issue your own token and do whatever you want with it.
This is an even deeper issue.
Deposit and withdrawal volumes are different (actually at this moment more people want to deposit with fiat but less want to withdraw), means there are more demands than supply, in order to maintain the peg we should provide more supply, so it's fair to bias to shorters.

There is enough of supply of bitCNY, you can buy it at discount rate at DEX. The problem with your ramp is that it has a broken loop, you should close it.

What are you trying to do instead is making the peg closer at one market by breaking it worse at another market.
Fiat ramps are important to get mass adoption. I'm shocked that you think it should be closed.

Dude, can you read english words? I am talking about closing the broken arbitrage loop, not about closing your ramp. I know how important are fiat ramps.

123
The peg at your ramp (or whoever runs it) is off because deposit and withdrawal volumes are different. This has nothing to do with price feed or fairness. And anyway, you should not address the problems of your ramp by screwing up a committee token. Issue your own token and do whatever you want with it.
This is an even deeper issue.
Deposit and withdrawal volumes are different (actually at this moment more people want to deposit with fiat but less want to withdraw), means there are more demands than supply, in order to maintain the peg we should provide more supply, so it's fair to bias to shorters.

There is enough of supply of bitCNY, you can buy it at discount rate at DEX. The problem with your ramp is that it has a broken arbitrage loop, you should close it.

What are you trying to do instead is making the peg closer at one market by breaking it worse at another market.

124
The peg at your ramp (or whoever runs it) is off because deposit and withdrawal volumes are different. This has nothing to do with price feed or fairness. And anyway, you should not address the problems of your ramp by screwing up a committee token. Issue your own token and do whatever you want with it.

125
The fact that magicwallet users pay more CNY for bitCNY means that more users deposit funds into bitshares than withdraw through your wallet.
To bring the bitCNY price on par with CNY in your wallet, you need somebody to withdraw their funds through magicwallet, then deposit them back through other gateway.
Looks like you're saying "the market is acting wrong".

No, this is exactly how the market is supposed to work. If you have a mismatch between the deposit volume and withdrawal volume at your gateway, the price get skewed. You need arbitragers to correct it. Total supply of bitCNY has nothing to do with this, you can buy plenty at discount on DEX, it is your gateway which has deficit.
"you can buy plenty at discount on DEX" but only with BTS, you don't have that much BTS and nowhere to get that much with fiat (and even BTC). The on/off ramp is designed for the peg, where you can buy bitCNY with fiat CNY.

So what? To short bitCNY you need even more BTS than to buy it. How is messing up offset supposed to fix the peg at your ramp? This is ridiculous  misthinking.

126
So, situation is even worse than it follows from OP. It turns out that topic starter runs a gateway which is not very efficient, and tries to solve his problem at a cost of bitCNY holders.
 

127
The fact that magicwallet users pay more CNY for bitCNY means that more users deposit funds into bitshares than withdraw through your wallet.
To bring the bitCNY price on par with CNY in your wallet, you need somebody to withdraw their funds through magicwallet, then deposit them back through other gateway.
Looks like you're saying "the market is acting wrong".

No, this is exactly how the market is supposed to work. If you have a mismatch between the deposit volume and withdrawal volume at your gateway, the price get skewed. You need arbitragers to correct it. Total supply of bitCNY has nothing to do with this, you can buy plenty at discount on DEX, it is your gateway which has deficit.


128
Magicwallet is one particular market for bitCNY, which is biased different way than the DEX. Trying to solve its problems by messing up with whole echosystem is wrong. The fact that magicwallet users pay more CNY for bitCNY means that more users deposit funds into bitshares than withdraw through your wallet. You can't change this by messing up with offset. To bring the bitCNY price on par with CNY in your wallet, you need somebody to withdraw their funds through magicwallet, then deposit them back through other gateway. This is the arbitrage problem, not the shorting problem.


129
Changing rules like shoes in favor of small group of actors is shit. And the worst thing is that such stupid move is not going to solve any problems. This is like healing a headache with rectal suppositories. At the end, your head and your ass is going to hurt.

130

ok, let's firstly focus on whether the bitCNY is over supplied.

below is snapshot from magicwallet, we can see that currently one need to pay at least 1.028CNY to get 1bitCNY,  it is clearly that bitCNY is in shortage, serious shortage.

It is in shortage in magicwallet, not on DEX. On DEX it is worth less than 1 CNY, which clearly indicates oversupply,  and increasing supply even more will not make more bitCNY available in magicwallet, this will drop the price on DEX even more.

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anyway if you do not like bitCNY even if it worth more than 1CNY, just sell it immediatelly, it is very possible that the offset will increase 3 days later.

It worth less than 1 CNY for me, not more, because I don't trade in magicwallet. But don't worry, I'll get rid of it, if it is going to be worth even less.

131
The importance of force settlement is over rated. For an adopted market you could likely change it to 50% offset or remove it entirely and it would have no effect.

Force settlement is not a tool for speculators.  It is not a tool for balancing or arbitrage.  It is a safety, training wheels mechanism for if the market disappears, SmartAsset holders are assured of some value.  Has the market disappeared?  Is there suddenly a void on one side of the market and an overwhelming driving force on the other?  Is everyone trying to exit the market at once?  Is bitCNY in danger of collapse?  No?  ok, then why are we using force settlement?  A market disruption and volatile pricing for BTS and BTC has made accurate objective feeding difficult/impossible.  And instead of letting the markets and pricing to rebalance through normal trade we've given a new path straight through our core support.

A hard line in the sand so close to the feed during times of high volatility and market disruption drives speculators to attack the backbone supply for the market (borrowers) instead of an honest trade with other speculators in a normal market.

The price should be given some breathing room around the feed.  Where normal market swings will be picked up from 1 speculator to the other.  Not allowing speculators and other normal trading to pick up the slack first to balance and correct, where instead there is a governing fail-safe emergency mechanism for a guaranteed price, drives instead a drain on the core of the market (borrowers)

While I see settlement as useful in the formation of a new market, at some point it becomes destructive and an unnecessary burden for the creators / borrowers.  This balance should be managed and assessed.  Is bCNY able to stand on it's own?  Can we allow it 5% around the feed without it falling over?

HELLO THERE! BitCNY is falling below the feed because it is OVER SUPPLIED. This is very simple: there are more sellers than buyers. Forced settlement is the ONLY thing which keeps it from falling further. You want it to fall 50% below? Great, go ahead and set 50% offset and keep shorting, but let me know in advance when this happen such that I have time to get rid of this shit asset.


132


listen, there is no low or high bitCNY price, bitCNY price are stable, there's only high or low BTS price, 


Wrong! It is bitCNY price which we want to peg to CNY, not BTS.

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if I want to close my position, I need to sell 60M BTS, may be you want that, but I don't think  the ecosystem like this.

I am considering how to make the ecosystem grow by optimizing the rules but what are you thinking? you guys can only tell others "stay calm, no problem, no need to change"

If you care so much about ecosystem, why don't you stop shorting assets which are oversupplied and go ahead and short those which desperately need more supply? Oversupply of money is as bad as undersupply.

133
If I was short on bitCNY, i would make sure there are no bitCNY sell orders below the peg - and if there were, I would buy them up to either increase my collateral ratio or reduce my debt.

according to your logic, now I should sell BTS in DEX to lower the price as feeded?

the problem is:
1. after I doing this, I have no way to buy BTS back at the feeded price, I am at risk if the BTS price goes up.
2. as a big shorter it's not easy to avoid being settlement by reducing debt,  even I avoid, some other shorters will be settled, as committee we need to find a solution to make sure any shorters won't be settled unfairly!

What are you talking about? You are settled at a fair face value. Besides, you can take advantage of low bitCNY price and close your position at discount value before you are forced settled. When bitCNY price goes up again, just short it again, it takes a couple of clicks. Where is unfairness?
 

134
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no, the core design for pegging is margin call, not settlement

No, margin call does not keep the peg, forced settlement does (only from one side though).

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we can watch how bitCNY behaves after this change, if some unexpected event happen, for example, bitCNY price drop to 0.95CNY

This is exactly what is expected and for sure will happen. When the price of bitAsset drops below the peg, you need to settle more, not less to keep the peg. With 5% offset bitCNY holders will not be able to sell it, and will not be able to settle it at fair price. If you want, go ahead, try it, but give us some time before this to get rid of bitCNY.

135
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There is no such thing as 1 correct price.

There is no such thing, but we have to derive one out of variety of prices, because we need a single price for reference to make bitAssets work.

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