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General Discussion / Re: Millions of Features, Features for Me!
« on: December 14, 2015, 11:17:24 am »Quote
I meant that at this early in the game, there is no competition because we're too small.I would agree in general. But then the question about how to handly new featrures that target the same market (note that the difference between a new feature and an upgrade to it is a continuum and hard to distinguish) doesnt become less relevant.
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General Discussion / Re: Millions of Features, Features for Me!
« on: December 14, 2015, 10:54:37 am »That might be. But if we dont assume that everyone does things for a profit then it can easily happen that by such an argumentation the "perceived volonteers/gifters" can easily take advantage of a larger group of people (BTS holders) through such talk... In the end you will never know whether people believe that there is a good profit to be made if you don't allow / plan for competiton.The only answer to these quantitative questions is price establishing competition. But then we are back to questions like: How much change to the code of a FBA qualifies for it to be a new feature with a different allocation?Good to stop the discussion to label it as envy . And the explanation it is a tradition here lol .
Shareholders own the network, not the entrepreneurs. So it has to be an mutual agreement.
So again why not 90/10 instead ?
You own the network, but who pays for development? lol Shareholders don't want to pay for development but don't like the idea of entrepreneurs having their cut when they pay for it.
No 90/10 because that way you won't attract entrepreneurs, unless you know someone who can throw 50k at BitShares like that, which you won't, ever.
Money doesn't fall from the sky. Naive and greedy thinking. That's exactly teh same line of thinking that keeps some projects from growing. People prefer being too greedy instead of sacrificing a little more to have more guarantees about their future.
The full argument is here https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,20575.msg265645.html#msg265645
There's no thing as competition for a risk this high in this early stage. I see it more as every investor being more some kind of a gift/opportunity.
This, because from a investor's point of view it doesn't make much sense to get such amounts of money into this when the chance of return is so low atm. I'm sure there are other kinds of investmentes where you can get your money back in a shorter time frame and with more chances of getting it back. My opinion only. Crypto is a niche atm, so on top of having someone willing to take such a huge risk, it needs to be into crypto wich is extremely difficult
Btw: The above is very much related to https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,20575.msg265647.html#msg265647
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General Discussion / Re: Millions of Features, Features for Me!
« on: December 14, 2015, 10:42:50 am »The only answer to these quantitative questions is price establishing competition. But then we are back to questions like: How much change to the code of a FBA qualifies for it to be a new feature with a different allocation? And if the question is answered so that any newly proposed FBA that is targeting the same market would break the initial social consesnsus on the initial FBA that "cornered" that market then the next question is: Shouldnt there be initially sufficient competition between various FBA entrepreneuers to compete to "corner" a market so that the BTS holders can choose the best deal instead of going with the first proposal that arbitrarly sets the tx fee allocation.Good to stop the discussion to label it as envy . And the explanation it is a tradition here lol .
Shareholders own the network, not the entrepreneurs. So it has to be an mutual agreement.
So again why not 90/10 instead ?
You own the network, but who pays for development? lol Shareholders don't want to pay for development but don't like the idea of entrepreneurs having their cut when they pay for it.
No 90/10 because that way you won't attract entrepreneurs, unless you know someone who can throw 50k at BitShares like that, which you won't, ever.
Money doesn't fall from the sky. Naive and greedy thinking. That's exactly teh same line of thinking that keeps some projects from growing. People prefer being too greedy instead of sacrificing a little more to have more guarantees about their future.
More critique at:
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,20575.msg265645.html#msg265645
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Meta / Re: Censorship is a sign of weakness
« on: December 12, 2015, 07:12:38 pm »
I sympathiizes with TheFheman's general sentiment but I also understand when an account is banned because of continious personal attacks that are directed at people that are part of the conversation.
@Tuck Fheman are you making a difference when someone says fuck or when someone says fuck off to someone that is part of the (greater) conversation?
...In the end it boils down to whether you assume any order at all or not. If you don't assume any order you don't associate any normative / judgemental meaning with words (like fuck). Hmmmm
@Tuck Fheman are you making a difference when someone says fuck or when someone says fuck off to someone that is part of the (greater) conversation?
...In the end it boils down to whether you assume any order at all or not. If you don't assume any order you don't associate any normative / judgemental meaning with words (like fuck). Hmmmm
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Meta / Re: [POLL] Tipbot Yes/No
« on: December 12, 2015, 07:05:13 pm »I actually don't see the bot messages as it is atm as a problem. It is just that is is sometimes a bit more anoying to scroll over threads with a lot of bot msg. Maybe these could just be made smaller (font, less space between lines)?I think it is nice to have one but it would also be nice for the tipping to be somewhat costly to prevent spam (however that may work)
It already costs 20 bucks to make a UIA, along with the time to do so. Also, we didn't want to make it so if I send you 1 HIGHFIVE, you receive .95 HIGHFIVE.
I can see the potential problem with spam though for sure.
I can also see the bot sending to pm's as opposed to the thread where it is posted. In fact, @hybridd and I have already talked about this openly on the forum and have stated the intention to move it to pms as opposed to within the sharing (tipping) thread.
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Random Discussion / Re: Freedomfighting Socialists are Giving up
« on: December 12, 2015, 05:40:52 pm »Anyone else notice the trend here? 99% of the people (pun intended) who fight the oppressive capitalist systems are anti-capitalist activists who don't know how to fuel their own revolution. They end up cynical and despondent, if not "crucified," not for a second doubting that their view of how to effect change is mistaken.I fully agree! It's just that the pure Austrian approach can sometimes (contrary to it's assumptions about subjectivity / subjective (price) judgement) forget that no revolution that does away with hierarchical / state institutions can work without a change of consciousness. I.e. No System (system here: set of rules that are violently enforced while there is (relatively) wide consent about the legitimacy of the violence and the enforcement) and also no "no system" can handle the degree of greed we have today. But maybe less structural violence helps to reduce it?
http://motherboard.vice.com/read/pirate-bay-founder-peter-sunde-i-have-given-up
I have noticed this in the Norwegian Pirate Party, in the Open Source community, and in various Free Society communities. You can also see it in dejected spirit of the recent conversation between Žižek, Varoufakis and Assange:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjxAArOkoA0
The clear signal from our community, i.e. the cryptocurrency community, is that any effective revolution has to consider economic independence and freedom, as well as economic incentives, as essential to any effective solution. What's great about our community is that we blame actual barriers to participation and ineffective centralization, instead of blaming and engaging with ideology.
Interesting question!Quote
Žižek, Varoufakis and Assange:It's really annoying to always see these "leftist" and "liberal" attributions made to certain arguments (made by Zizek all the time).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjxAArOkoA0
But very much worth watching at least from here on: https://youtu.be/yjxAArOkoA0?t=1h3m34s
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Meta / Re: [POLL] Tipbot Yes/No
« on: December 12, 2015, 05:34:14 pm »
I think it is nice to have one but it would also be nice for the tipping to be somewhat costly to prevent spam (however that may work)
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General Discussion / Re: Millions of Features, Features for Me!
« on: December 12, 2015, 04:49:55 pm »BitShares stakeholders will now have price information that indicates how the market values each potential feature. This price information can in turn be used to inform them on which features they should vote for. A highly valued feature means that the market believes that feature will generate significant ROI and therefore be profitable for BitShares holders.To get this straight...
If you want accurate prices for all those features / FBAs wouldn't all FBA markets offered to investors have to have the same percantage of tx fees that goes to the FBA vs BTS holders as well as the same percentage that goes to CNX vs to the FBA investors?
I guess that there is no need to change the CNX vs FBA-Investor allocation accross different FBAs. But BTS holders probably still want to see FBAs/features that require just a tiny bit of coding work to have less tx fees allocated to the FBA (vs BTS) than with an FBA takes a lot of time to code.
CNX' (or whatever other company is doing the work) incentive to not set the FBA vs BTS price too high and set it lower for FBAs that don't require that much work is to get BTS-stakeholder approval for the worker.
Conclusion: The prediction / price discovery should work fine as long as the BTS holders vs FBA holders (CNX and FBA investors) relation is roughly according to how much funding the proposal asks for from FBA investors compared to other FBAs/features. If that is not the case BTS holder may feel overcharged and may want to replace the FBA that was experienced to be overly expensive with another one that is less expensive.
Resulting questions: How much funding should result in what BTS:FBA relation?
Another question is: What if a better feature which targets the same market (e.g. the bond market) is proposed as a normal worker proposal or a FBA sometimes in the future? Will the initial FBA investors just loose their investment when the other tx type is used more? That would make sense to me and would be analoque to the FBA as a small company analogy. But shouldnt it be recognized that the existence of any FBA completely depends on a social (soft) consesnus between FBA holders and BTS holders: In fact, BTS holders could at any time just vote for a worker proposal that changes nothing but allocates all tx fees from a respective feature to BTS holders that in part have gone to the FBA holders that funded the respective feature. If it is such a soft social consensus than it must be as explicite as possible to work (so that the different camps can't bend arguments easily). Then again the resulting question is: How much change to the code of a FBA qualifies for it to be a new feature with a different allocation?
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General Discussion / Re: BTS Prediction Market for Committee Management
« on: December 11, 2015, 09:12:09 pm »
There is the model where you can create a prediciton market (MPA) for a certain set of comittee memebers and and another prediction market (MPA) for another set of comittee members. What is predicted is the BTS price for both cases, on a specific date and time. Only the market (if any) gets settled that actually is realized (meaning respective set of comitee members have been in charge). Another condition could be made that the respective set of comitee members has to have been in charge at least x days from when the markets are created till the settlement date.
I have these weird thoughts from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUUk0jSndoc Maybe I got it wrong?
I have these weird thoughts from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUUk0jSndoc Maybe I got it wrong?
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General Discussion / Re: Plan to run private smartcoin TCNY
« on: December 07, 2015, 08:02:04 pm »
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General Discussion / Re: And we are here bacause...[poll]
« on: December 06, 2015, 03:18:49 pm »
... a funny example of the social phenomenon where the one that asks the question (more drastically with polls where answers are predefined) maps out (the possible) reality 
tony, all your writings, in a very subtle way, here are either about yourself (as a victim, as the one that forsees all the bad things, or other things that distinguish you from the rest) or about yourself controling others (telling others what they are).
tony, all your writings, in a very subtle way, here are either about yourself (as a victim, as the one that forsees all the bad things, or other things that distinguish you from the rest) or about yourself controling others (telling others what they are).
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Technical Support / Re: BM spikes the Kool Aid - jumpstartng our stalled car
« on: December 05, 2015, 07:22:03 pm »I couldnt listen to the last one. It isnt on beyond bitcoin yet (the second last one neither). Not an insult at all though! Fuzzy and his crew aren't paid for anything (I guess)...
Anyone have the latest hangout? @testz?
You can find it here:
http://bitsharesnews.info/
Scroll down a bit...
[To the author of this very helpful site] Edit: I think I found out. It must be @tuckfheman
My MP3 Player, from which I listen to these recordings on my commute, is limited in space. So, would it be additional effort to make the recordings available as mp3 or ogg ? Wav is 10 times (?) as big and has no practical advantage (here)...
Mumble records to .WAV and there's no changing that afaik. If there is a way someone please tell me and I'll save in a different format when recording, but I see no option to do such a thing. Keep in mind that the latest recordings will always be the RAW recordings uploaded immediately following the hangout. Once AJ has edited the hangout I believe he uploads ogg or MP3 and we swap the links to those. So as long as you're willing to wait a few days or whenever AJ finishes you should have them in your preferred format.
Thanks for checking out the site!
#sharebits "delulo" 5 PERCENT
#sharebits "delulo" 1 FISTBUMP
I know that I always record to ogg. I am pretty sure you can either select that when recording or somewhere in the settings. Maybe I have a different mumble version? But I am doing that for more than a year like that....
Some feedback: To me personally the value of having the raw recording is about 100 points. MP3 / Ogg adds about 20 points. An edited one ads about another 10 points. --> I am already pretty happy that people are making the effort to upload it at all
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Technical Support / Re: BM spikes the Kool Aid - jumpstartng our stalled car
« on: December 05, 2015, 06:32:54 pm »I couldnt listen to the last one. It isnt on beyond bitcoin yet (the second last one neither). Not an insult at all though! Fuzzy and his crew aren't paid for anything (I guess)...
Anyone have the latest hangout? @testz?
You can find it here:
http://bitsharesnews.info/
Scroll down a bit...
[To the author of this very helpful site] Edit: I think I found out. It must be @tuckfheman
My MP3 Player, from which I listen to these recordings on my commute, is limited in space. So, would it be additional effort to make the recordings available as mp3 or ogg ? Wav is 10 times (?) as big and has no practical advantage (here)...
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General Discussion / Re: The #1 Intro Video to BitShares
« on: December 05, 2015, 06:22:56 pm »
Maybe this https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,20123.msg259060.html#msg259060 helps for (1)
