Quote from: bytemaster on December 16, 2014, 12:03:18 AM
  4) I am starting a blog to talk about things and set vision/goals/etc.

I started the BitShares Blog at http://bitsharesblog.com/ a few weeks ago to track happenings around the network. You are more then welcome to use it in conjunction with me or if you preferred I could take a backseat to your authorship altogether. Most likely you had something else in mind, but I could not resist the opportunity to plug the site.

Thanks to cass for his help with the logo.

Quote from: Ander on December 16, 2014, 01:03:20 AM

Quote from: Troglodactyl on December 16, 2014, 01:00:30 AM
Also, everyone please bear in mind that agreements already made with Brian Page are effectively a sunk cost. 

Yes, this is important. 

The other important thing to remember is that bitshares can still be very successful even if the value we get out of this sunk cost ends up being zero, because there are now a number of initiatives that are in progress, and some of them will likely succeed.

I'd like to see Nullstreet given a decent marketing budget and incentives. Personally, I'd also like to retain the services of MethodX and he would be my choice for Western marketing director.

This could be done with a 50% re-allocation of the resources that were given to Brian to do the job, but getting 10, 100% paid delegates would be a tougher ask. There's also the psychological problem that a few people will be busting their arse to get BitShares Western marketing to the level it should be, but it will be the person who was ineffective at their job that will reap the big bonuses for the community marketing team's and a few key people's hard work.

Not sure why BM deleted his post, but I will delete my quote of it.  There could be reasons why it is better this way?

Just noticed that. Very sneaky

Quote from: Ander on December 16, 2014, 12:20:14 AM

Quote from: bytemaster on December 16, 2014, 12:03:18 AM
BP is here in Blacksburg this week and we need to identify what we want from him.   

Here is my assessment:
  1) he cannot create new content only poorly repackage content provided by others
  2) he hires other people to manage social media
  3) he has brought in great talent with Max & Friends and this talent I want to keep.
  4) he cannot produce a website
 
Here are some changes that are going on:
  1) Social Media is being moved to Adam Earnest & Team
  2) Website is being moved to me + cass + Adam
  3) Max is producing and marketing BitShares.tv
  4) I am starting a blog to talk about things and set vision/goals/etc.
  5) Agent86 is producing more technical papers / educational material

Brian's primary strength has been organizing our presence at conferences and getting us interviews there. 

The challenge that Brian faces is that he found other people to do his work.  He hasn't produced news articles, nor driven media to our website.  He hasn't gotten press in or communicated our idea. 

The nullstreet crowd is busy showing Brian what he should have been doing/organizing this whole time. 

Brian is in sales but he doesn't know what to sell nor what BitShares is.  Every time we talk he asks me "what is BitShares?" in an attempt to get me to explain it for the Nth time.   

Something has to change.  Brian needs to bring measurable results to the table.   We will figure this out this week.

I just want everyone to know that I share your frustration.

Thanks BM so much for this post!

* I like that you are going to work on a blog.  This will help us communicate your vision.  This could be very helpful towards getting the libertarian community interested in bitshares!

* I'm very excited about Bitshares TV.  This has a lot of potential.

* Getting more positive media articles about Bitshares in the crypto media world should be a priority!  This could have a strong positive impact.   We need to get more presence in the general mindset of crypto enthusiasts.  Everyone knows about Ethereum, but tons of people out there have never investigated bitshares at all.  That is a lot of untapped potential that we might be able to get to grow our core support base.


I think we all feel that we have overpaid for what we have gotten in terms of those conference connections, business connections, being hooked up with those marketing talents like Max.  But the fact that we overpaid isnt the end of the world.  After all, bitcoin grew from nothing with no marketing budget.   We have the ability to pay people from the blockchain now, so we can continue to fund marketing forever.  We have methodX and hpEnvy and matt608 and others from the community who are now seeing successes in their efforts.

This bytemaster post does not exist, apparently it was deleted.

Quote from: James212 on December 16, 2014, 01:22:26 AM

Quote from: onceuponatime on December 16, 2014, 12:43:29 AM

Quote from: James212 on December 16, 2014, 12:40:43 AM

Quote from: Ander on December 15, 2014, 06:19:37 PM

Quote from: Method-X on December 15, 2014, 06:02:04 PM

Quote from: onceuponatime on December 15, 2014, 06:00:39 PM
It is critical that we have enough early adopters to help out when mass adoption begins.

+5% This right here. It's essential we have more early adopters if we ever hope to cross the chasm.

Agreed, we could have been having marketing focused at getting more core early adopters, during this time before 1.0 released.

I frequently see things like press releases from CoinTelegraph (on CMC), which discuss some positive development in another coin.  Or even fricking bitReserve!  And I think:  We already have something better than that!  Why does not one report on anything about bitshares?  Why does no one seem to care?



I'd rather focus on positive things now, such as:  Everyone who has not yet done so, NEEDS to go vote for matt608's argentina marketing delegate.  I am certain that the value per dollar spent on his campaign will be much greater than the official marketing.

I'm still waiting for a stable update wallet though Dacunlimited so I can vote for matt608 (and Methodx).   4.25 was a mess.

The v0.4.26 at bitshares.org may still be a little buggy, but I have found it good enough for voting.

Thanks.  Does anyone have a link for 4.26?  It is not on Dacsunlimited site yet.

http://bitshares.org/downloads/

Quote from: gamey on December 16, 2014, 01:16:46 AM
I used to chant that this was a necessity, but then we started to hear about the magic marketing machine in the pipeline which would be able to leapfrog these people to a new untapped market.

Yeah.  I think we've all realized this by now.

Nothing is going to magically happen, no amazing marketing campaign is going to materialize into existence and save us.

If we want bitshares to succeed, the community must make it happen.

The good news is: progress on this has already begun.  We just need to do what we can to support it.

And vote for matt608's delegate, and every nullstreet delegate than MethodX creates. :)

Quote from: onceuponatime on December 16, 2014, 12:43:29 AM

Quote from: James212 on December 16, 2014, 12:40:43 AM

Quote from: Ander on December 15, 2014, 06:19:37 PM

Quote from: Method-X on December 15, 2014, 06:02:04 PM

Quote from: onceuponatime on December 15, 2014, 06:00:39 PM
It is critical that we have enough early adopters to help out when mass adoption begins.

+5% This right here. It's essential we have more early adopters if we ever hope to cross the chasm.

Agreed, we could have been having marketing focused at getting more core early adopters, during this time before 1.0 released.

I frequently see things like press releases from CoinTelegraph (on CMC), which discuss some positive development in another coin.  Or even fricking bitReserve!  And I think:  We already have something better than that!  Why does not one report on anything about bitshares?  Why does no one seem to care?



I'd rather focus on positive things now, such as:  Everyone who has not yet done so, NEEDS to go vote for matt608's argentina marketing delegate.  I am certain that the value per dollar spent on his campaign will be much greater than the official marketing.

I'm still waiting for a stable update wallet though Dacunlimited so I can vote for matt608 (and Methodx).   4.25 was a mess.

The v0.4.26 at bitshares.org may still be a little buggy, but I have found it good enough for voting.

Thanks.  Does anyone have a link for 4.26?  It is not on Dacsunlimited site yet. 

Quote from: Ander on December 16, 2014, 01:13:02 AM

Quote from: Troglodactyl on December 16, 2014, 01:08:07 AM
It's not so easy to say what approach will yield the best longterm results.  I certainly think we'd benefit from more marketing now, but probably not so much from mainstream marketing yet.

Right now is the time to market to people who are already interested in crypto, and are tech savvy.  Grow the core, early adopter, support base. 

This can be done without a 1.0 release product.

I used to chant that this was a necessity, but then we started to hear about the magic marketing machine in the pipeline which would be able to leapfrog these people to a new untapped market.

Quote from: Troglodactyl on December 16, 2014, 01:08:07 AM
It's not so easy to say what approach will yield the best longterm results.  I certainly think we'd benefit from more marketing now, but probably not so much from mainstream marketing yet.

Right now is the time to market to people who are already interested in crypto, and are tech savvy.  Grow the core, early adopter, support base. 

This can be done without a 1.0 release product.

Quote from: James212 on December 16, 2014, 12:43:49 AM

Quote from: Ander on December 15, 2014, 07:09:16 PM
I feel that if bitshares had the ethereum marketing team instead, we wouldve surpassed bitcoin already.

Ethereum is the perfect case against the philosophy that we need to have a stable product before we can market....not true!

That's not necessarily fair, though I certainly think there's some legitimacy to it.

Short term, full marketing from the beginning certainly yields more impressive results.  But how do we know Ethereum won't burn out?  What if their audience gets a bad first impression, tires of it, and is no longer receptive when the full product arrives?

It's not so easy to say what approach will yield the best longterm results.  I certainly think we'd benefit from more marketing now, but probably not so much from mainstream marketing yet.

Quote from: Troglodactyl on December 16, 2014, 01:00:30 AM
Also, everyone please bear in mind that agreements already made with Brian Page are effectively a sunk cost. 

Yes, this is important. 

The other important thing to remember is that bitshares can still be very successful even if the value we get out of this sunk cost ends up being zero, because there are now a number of initiatives that are in progress, and some of them will likely succeed.

Quote from: Ander on December 16, 2014, 12:20:14 AM

Quote from: bytemaster on December 16, 2014, 12:03:18 AM
BP is here in Blacksburg this week and we need to identify what we want from him.   

Here is my assessment:
  1) he cannot create new content only poorly repackage content provided by others
  2) he hires other people to manage social media
  3) he has brought in great talent with Max & Friends and this talent I want to keep.
  4) he cannot produce a website
 
Here are some changes that are going on:
  1) Social Media is being moved to Adam Earnest & Team
  2) Website is being moved to me + cass + Adam
  3) Max is producing and marketing BitShares.tv
  4) I am starting a blog to talk about things and set vision/goals/etc.
  5) Agent86 is producing more technical papers / educational material

Brian's primary strength has been organizing our presence at conferences and getting us interviews there. 

The challenge that Brian faces is that he found other people to do his work.  He hasn't produced news articles, nor driven media to our website.  He hasn't gotten press in or communicated our idea. 

The nullstreet crowd is busy showing Brian what he should have been doing/organizing this whole time. 

Brian is in sales but he doesn't know what to sell nor what BitShares is.  Every time we talk he asks me "what is BitShares?" in an attempt to get me to explain it for the Nth time.   

Something has to change.  Brian needs to bring measurable results to the table.   We will figure this out this week.

I just want everyone to know that I share your frustration.

Thanks BM so much for this post!

* I like that you are going to work on a blog.  This will help us communicate your vision.  This could be very helpful towards getting the libertarian community interested in bitshares!

* I'm very excited about Bitshares TV.  This has a lot of potential.

* Getting more positive media articles about Bitshares in the crypto media world should be a priority!  This could have a strong positive impact.   We need to get more presence in the general mindset of crypto enthusiasts.  Everyone knows about Ethereum, but tons of people out there have never investigated bitshares at all.  That is a lot of untapped potential that we might be able to get to grow our core support base.


I think we all feel that we have overpaid for what we have gotten in terms of those conference connections, business connections, being hooked up with those marketing talents like Max.  But the fact that we overpaid isnt the end of the world.  After all, bitcoin grew from nothing with no marketing budget.   We have the ability to pay people from the blockchain now, so we can continue to fund marketing forever.  We have methodX and hpEnvy and matt608 and others from the community who are now seeing successes in their efforts.

^ This.

Also, everyone please bear in mind that agreements already made with Brian Page are effectively a sunk cost.  Complaining about them will not make them go away, and destructive criticism can only reduce the return on that cost, if it has any impact at all. The only logical response in my opinion is to give him the benefit of the doubt and support him with constructive criticism, advice, and at least any assistance that does not hinder other efforts.  I honestly believe that Brian wants to help make BitShares more successful, but even if you believe he doesn't, attacks against him accomplish nothing.

Quote from: Ander on December 15, 2014, 07:09:16 PM
I feel that if bitshares had the ethereum marketing team instead, we wouldve surpassed bitcoin already.

Ethereum is the perfect case against the philosophy that we need to have a stable product before we can market....not true!

Quote from: James212 on December 16, 2014, 12:40:43 AM

Quote from: Ander on December 15, 2014, 06:19:37 PM

Quote from: Method-X on December 15, 2014, 06:02:04 PM

Quote from: onceuponatime on December 15, 2014, 06:00:39 PM
It is critical that we have enough early adopters to help out when mass adoption begins.

+5% This right here. It's essential we have more early adopters if we ever hope to cross the chasm.

Agreed, we could have been having marketing focused at getting more core early adopters, during this time before 1.0 released.

I frequently see things like press releases from CoinTelegraph (on CMC), which discuss some positive development in another coin.  Or even fricking bitReserve!  And I think:  We already have something better than that!  Why does not one report on anything about bitshares?  Why does no one seem to care?



I'd rather focus on positive things now, such as:  Everyone who has not yet done so, NEEDS to go vote for matt608's argentina marketing delegate.  I am certain that the value per dollar spent on his campaign will be much greater than the official marketing.

I'm still waiting for a stable update wallet though Dacunlimited so I can vote for matt608 (and Methodx).   4.25 was a mess.

The v0.4.26 at bitshares.org may still be a little buggy, but I have found it good enough for voting.