Should we continue to funding mining of PTS?

[Shentist]

this suggestion is way to late!!!

now we have to rush.....never a good idea....

sry, it's really funny. in older posts bytemaster that one guy (i forgot the name) is in charge of PTS but this suggestion comes from bytemaster. in my eyes this is a total marketing disaster.
stop talking. it was never said PTS will be not liquid this is the whole idea of PTS....you can't set it in stone! Point!

1. take your snapshot
2. transfer to DPOS run with delegates for higher fees (only a speculation chain)
3. the left PTS shares who are not mined should given to a new created marketing fund to support the bitshares ecosystem. we already learned that we need more fundes and this amount is good allocated. with this fund we could finance some community ideas.

i don't follow in this case bytemasters lead. in this case he is wrong!

[businiao]

Too many snapshots hurt the market , one snapshut for all dac’s is a great idea.

[serejandmyself]

I'll come back to my argument and extend it to : If you this now, you'll see the price of btsx go down Lots (with a capital L), more so, NOT, for a short term

Edit : PTS has been live for a year.... for us...not for your average user! You'll kill the party without even starting it. People are VERY MUCH vary of btsx today. Believe me when i say so. I have 5 converstaion everyday convincing people btsx is good for them. Do this now and see that number of people that don't understand btsx and bitUSD grow   

[CryptoPrometheus]

TRUE strength requires flexibility and rigidity to complement each other. The current AGS/PTS value proposition is a great model for this theory, right? AGS rigidly represents the most willing and generous of the early crowd, while PTS supports the ebb and flow of new interests. Take away the flexibility, and you have a set group of insiders that gets to reap disproportional benefits. Take away the rigidity, and your "mailing list" becomes less appealing to those wishing to secure *solid* support.

PTS is the only experiment of its kind (that I know of) in cryptospace that offers its participants such an exciting, unpredictable, and constantly renewable opportunity for share allocation. While it might be tempting to “lock in” our positions at this time,  has the current model of PTS been such a failure after only a year that it warrants complete reformulation? Is this a course that needs correction?

I am not arguing that the current POW shouldn't be migrated onto DPOS in some fashion. IMO through user-issued assets as part of the Bitshares ME genesis block (which would give a double incentive for PTS trading before the final snapshot). I am, however, less qualified to recommend migration tactics as I am to implore you all to consider the social implications of abandoning what I believe to be one of our best “opportunities” for newcomers. POW may be broken, but surely (Proto)shares is not!

[CLains]

It needs to be transparent to the public what is happening. PTS on coinmarketcap needs to link directly to a count-down and an explanation, that it is migrating to the faster, more powerful DPOS technology, and that everyone holding PTS on date X will retain their stake. Exchanges should be notified.. If this plan is supposed to happen 5th, you guys have a lot to do and very little time to do it.. Otherwise extend the deadline.

It would also drive demand for BTSX so you can trade PTS.

I think we want to avoid FRAGMENTING the market with too many DACs that all require a delegates and maitenance.

On the positive, this is a great opportunity. While snapdeath might cause fear in the short term, the continued association of the defunct PTS blockchain&wallet with the suprior DPOS technology through the "BitShares" brand will rightly come to an end.

[bitcoinba]

Initial assumption for PTS was to be liquid. This was reiterated many times. It should remain liquid and DACs shouldn't rely on single snapshot. I think moving it to DPOS (blessed by III) is the best option.

 

[bobmaloney]

I've always been against the idea of making AGS transferable, but some arguments in this thread seem to make the argument very convincing.

Most important - There must remain an avenue for those new to the Bitshares community to invest in upcoming DAC's

The bundle of changes I find most interesting:

*Final snapshot / end PTS on 1 year anniversary
*Convert PTS and AGS to transferable UIA on BTSX
- (maybe later to be moved when ME launches - move and transactions would offer incentives to attract delegates for ME)
*Convert existing amounts to equivalent amount of 1 billion total new asset - "Bitshares Snapshot" or "Bitshares Seed" or "Bitshares S" or "Bitshares DAC"...whatever (just because I like nice round numbers that allow easy calculation of percentages ;-) )

If there are any other concerns regarding the conversion of AGS to transferable assets, maybe it can be entertained that they remain "locked" until the originally announced DAC's are snapshot (I believe only PLAY and ME remain from the original vision - please correct me if I am wrong) - and at that point allowing conversion to transferable assets.

...my .02 BTSX

[nomoreheroes7]

It doesn't have to been seen as shutting down, but rather upgraded to a better technology and simplified genesis distribution model. The new asset could be called Seeds which combines AGS/PTS

Bitshares Seeds
SeedShares
BitSeeds
SeedShares

I've had this idea too, except I would just call the one proto unit a BitShare

I really like this idea, and its easy for new people to understand.  (Which is a complaint about bitshares - there is too much complexity).

You buy a BitShare, and you get some of every Bitshares <whatever> DAC that comes out.

That would be incredible. Perfect idea.

[天籁]

Future DACs should honor PTS for helping bootstrap this community and fund development of the toolkit... but should we continue to dilute PTS holders just to fund mining?

Based upon designs for future DACs that we have, there is no need to have PTS be liquid.   

What if we simply shut down PTS after one last snapshot for all eternity for any and all future DACs after which it becomes an empty token with the value of all the other alt coins?

I think it would be much cleaner to simply end PTS... have DACS launch their own proto-dac like Toast did or even BTSX did.   

Why do this?  It simplifies our marketing message... no need to advertize/support PTS after the last snapshot.   

Those who want liquidity could sell prior to the last snapshot and buy into individual proto-dacs when the time comes. 

This will also create one genesis block initial balance template for all DACs and remove the need to support the genesis block generators for arbitrary dates.

We are coming up on November 5th, 1 year from the launch of PTS so I would like to propose that November 5th be the last snap shot day for all time after which we would dump all of our PTS on the market to who ever wants to speculate.    I suspect that the price fall on PTS after this date would stop mining in its tracks anyway..

Mining is costing our community over $5000 per day right now and over $1 million over the next year.... assuming block times will "average" 5 minutes.  We should certainly end mining prior to the next difficulty adjustment... because with what we are paying for mining on PTS we could hire many developers.

Just a proposal...

I concur. 

PTS is no longer useful, and is positively wasteful at this point.

Me too!

[werneo]

Future DACs should honor PTS for helping bootstrap this community and fund development of the toolkit... but should we continue to dilute PTS holders just to fund mining?

Based upon designs for future DACs that we have, there is no need to have PTS be liquid.   

What if we simply shut down PTS after one last snapshot for all eternity for any and all future DACs after which it becomes an empty token with the value of all the other alt coins?

I think it would be much cleaner to simply end PTS... have DACS launch their own proto-dac like Toast did or even BTSX did.   

Why do this?  It simplifies our marketing message... no need to advertize/support PTS after the last snapshot.   

Those who want liquidity could sell prior to the last snapshot and buy into individual proto-dacs when the time comes. 

This will also create one genesis block initial balance template for all DACs and remove the need to support the genesis block generators for arbitrary dates.

We are coming up on November 5th, 1 year from the launch of PTS so I would like to propose that November 5th be the last snap shot day for all time after which we would dump all of our PTS on the market to who ever wants to speculate.    I suspect that the price fall on PTS after this date would stop mining in its tracks anyway..

Mining is costing our community over $5000 per day right now and over $1 million over the next year.... assuming block times will "average" 5 minutes.  We should certainly end mining prior to the next difficulty adjustment... because with what we are paying for mining on PTS we could hire many developers.

Just a proposal...

I concur. 

PTS is no longer useful, and is positively wasteful at this point.

[mf-tzo]

Because it permanently shuts off anyone new from being able to buy a stake in all future DACs (at once).  It tells newcomers "nope, this opportunity is forever closed to you.  You never get to be one of the special people who gets shares in every new DAC."

And then they get upset and leave, instead of becoming bitshares supporters.

Not necessarily. You can buy now in Music IPO cheaper than holding PTS prior to the snapshot...

[Ander]

It doesn't have to been seen as shutting down, but rather upgraded to a better technology and simplified genesis distribution model. The new asset could be called Seeds which combines AGS/PTS

Bitshares Seeds
SeedShares
BitSeeds
SeedShares

I've had this idea too, except I would just call the one proto unit a BitShare

I really like this idea, and its easy for new people to understand.  (Which is a complaint about bitshares - there is too much complexity).

You buy a BitShare, and you get some of every Bitshares <whatever> DAC that comes out.

[jsidhu]

Maybe it if becomes valuable people will think twice to shut er down... if it rises enough there will be enough interest to keep it around and I suspect his is what will happen.. along with changing it to dpos and/or isssuing a pts asset. bitPTS

[Ander]

I really don't see why would anyone be opposed to ending PTS.

Because it permanently shuts off anyone new from being able to buy a stake in all future DACs (at once).  It tells newcomers "nope, this opportunity is forever closed to you.  You never get to be one of the special people who gets shares in every new DAC."

And then they get upset and leave, instead of becoming bitshares supporters.

[Pheonike]

There should be a message broadcast in the PTS client letting ppl know what is happening and how to protect/claim their stake in the the new coin/dac.