VOTE DAC Just Got More Interesting 2.0

[blahblah7up]

Since the same technology is behind each one of these DAC's it will probably make more sense just to switch on trading for all the other currencies in the DAC that gains the widest adoption.  No need to trade between chains.  Just have the delegates publish the appropriate feeds and away you go. BTSX might be worthless.

This is the problem... There is nothing stopping other DACs from creating other Bitassets. BitsharesVote or any other DAC can create bitGLD, bitSLV, etc.. and at that point BTSX is pretty much useless if other DACs have the same functionality with more features built on top of bitAssets.

...and more users.  The winning DAC will turn out to be "candy crush DAC" where you can buy bitGLD, vote for you local senator, and release coins for your latest home made dance album.

[oco101]

The reason to have bitUSD is the same like in Music. If you have an account open and you put 10 dollars that are converted in Notes, the problem is NOTES fluctuates so 1 month later his 10 dollars in his account are not anymore 10 $. So every chain absolutely needs bitUSD(or bitCurrency) if not we go back to original problem : stability.

But bitUSD is already stable, there's no need for more versions of it to be launched in every dac for the sake of stability. The real reason for launching a new bitUSD the funding model.  The vote dac probably needs it's bitUSD to become popular to be able to make its shares become more valuable, just like Bitshares-X and peertracks, rendering them all competitors.  The Vote dac could get hired by the government for an election and BTSX holders wouldn't gain a bean.  bitUSD could take off around the world, but if that bitUSD is issued by peertracks or the vote dac, BTSX holders get nothing.

Think how the bitUSD are issued in BitshareX ? The tokens in Vote DAC let's call them votes. You put 10 $ in value votes how you'll keep the same value one month later we all know that notes will fluctuate like btsx does ? The stability of bitUSD it coming by the way they are issued the whole trading thing. So you need inside chain system to mint bitUSD.
If you want to have the same bitUSD used by all DAC then all DAC needs to be on the same blockchain, etherum anyone ? If not you need bitCurrencys issued in each blockchain.

[CoinHoarder]

Since the same technology is behind each one of these DAC's it will probably make more sense just to switch on trading for all the other currencies in the DAC that gains the widest adoption.  No need to trade between chains.  Just have the delegates publish the appropriate feeds and away you go. BTSX might be worthless.

This is the problem... There is nothing stopping other DACs from creating other Bitassets. BitsharesVote or any other DAC can create bitGLD, bitSLV, etc.. and at that point BTSX is pretty much useless if other DACs have the same functionality with more features built on top of bitAssets.

[blahblah7up]

Since the same technology is behind each one of these DAC's it will probably make more sense just to switch on trading for all the other currencies in the DAC that gains the widest adoption.  No need to trade between chains.  Just have the delegates publish the appropriate feeds and away you go.  BTSX might be worthless.

[mf-tzo]

I don't see why you think bitUSD will only come from BTSX, it only seems logical that MUSIC and VOTE will have their very own bitUSD system, complete with shorting and covering.

I am ok with that as long the same rules apply that apply to BTSX in order to create bitusd, so effectively all bitusd are equal by applying ACCT.

But, why would anyone would want to hold BTSX now? What is their benefit now? MUSIC, DNS, VOTE will have some utility. What is the utility of BTSX now? I hope is not only the creation of biteur, bitcny, bitbtc and bitGLD because the demand for those assets apparently is non existent currently...

[svk]

I don't see why you think bitUSD will only come from BTSX, it only seems logical that MUSIC and VOTE will have their very own bitUSD system, complete with shorting and covering. The market rules would be the same, the only difference is that VOTE and MUSIC will have only that one asset, bitUSD.

You can then eventually do Atomic Cross Chain Trading to buy VOTEbitUSD with BTSXbitUSD for example.

*agreed* .. except that I am not sure MUSIC will only have one asset ... peetracks might only accept bitUSD ... but the blockchain might support other assets too ..

VOTE is different .. as I understand it ... it will be a product mainly for the U.S. first ..

Yea you're probably right, it would make sense to have more currencies, bitEUR, bitCNY etc for different markets. I don't see them having bitGLD for example though, and of course MUSIC will have user issued assets in the form of Artist Coins.

[oco101]

I hope I have lots of misunderstandings in my previous post. But unless someone confirms my misunderstandings what I am saying below is essentially a way of promoting bitusd and BTSX by getting it more centralized and effectively create bitusd IOU from the VOTE DAC which is centralized.

If that is the plan there is no surprise why BTSX is plunged.. How would anyone be confident that the centralized entity that owes VOTE DAC will honor bitusd IOUs? If these IOUs are not honored the whole system collapses...

Again, I hope I misunderstood completely VOTE.. I doubt that BM would have a plan like that..

Yes indeed you misunderstood, the bitUSD will be issue on Vote DAC they will be collateraized  with VOTE's. No IOU no centralized. How Vote dac will work, that we don't know. 

[matt608]

The reason to have bitUSD is the same like in Music. If you have an account open and you put 10 dollars that are converted in Notes, the problem is NOTES fluctuates so 1 month later his 10 dollars in his account are not anymore 10 $. So every chain absolutely needs bitUSD(or bitCurrency) if not we go back to original problem : stability.

But bitUSD is already stable, there's no need for more versions of it to be launched in every dac for the sake of stability. The real reason for launching a new bitUSD the funding model.  The vote dac probably needs it's bitUSD to become popular to be able to make its shares become more valuable, just like Bitshares-X and peertracks, rendering them all competitors.  The Vote dac could get hired by the government for an election and BTSX holders wouldn't gain a bean.  bitUSD could take off around the world, but if that bitUSD is issued by peertracks or the vote dac, BTSX holders get nothing.

[xeroc]

I don't see why you think bitUSD will only come from BTSX, it only seems logical that MUSIC and VOTE will have their very own bitUSD system, complete with shorting and covering. The market rules would be the same, the only difference is that VOTE and MUSIC will have only that one asset, bitUSD.

You can then eventually do Atomic Cross Chain Trading to buy VOTEbitUSD with BTSXbitUSD for example.

*agreed* .. except that I am not sure MUSIC will only have one asset ... peetracks might only accept bitUSD ... but the blockchain might support other assets too ..

VOTE is different .. as I understand it ... it will be a product mainly for the U.S. first ..

[svk]

I hope I have lots of misunderstandings in my previous post. But unless someone confirms my misunderstandings what I am saying below is essentially a way of promoting bitusd and BTSX by getting it more centralized and effectively create bitusd IOU from the VOTE DAC which is centralized.

If that is the plan there is no surprise why BTSX is plunged.. How would anyone be confident that the centralized entity that owes VOTE DAC will honor bitusd IOUs? If these IOUs are not honored the whole system collapses...

Again, I hope I misunderstood completely VOTE.. I doubt that BM would have a plan like that..

I don't see why you think bitUSD will only come from BTSX, it only seems logical that MUSIC and VOTE will have their very own bitUSD system, complete with shorting and covering. The market rules would be the same, the only difference is that VOTE and MUSIC will have only that one asset, bitUSD.

You can then eventually do Atomic Cross Chain Trading to buy VOTEbitUSD with BTSXbitUSD for example.

[mf-tzo]

I hope I have lots of misunderstandings in my previous post. But unless someone confirms my misunderstandings what I am saying below is essentially a way of promoting bitusd and BTSX by getting it more centralized and effectively create bitusd IOU from the VOTE DAC which is centralized.

If that is the plan there is no surprise why BTSX is plunged.. How would anyone be confident that the centralized entity that owes VOTE DAC will honor bitusd IOUs? If these IOUs are not honored the whole system collapses...

Again, I hope I misunderstood completely VOTE.. I doubt that BM would have a plan like that..

[Method-X]

Maybe there are easier ways to bootstrap BitUSD adoption? Just sayin...

[mf-tzo]

Let's see if I understand correctly or I am completely wrong again.

BTSX will continue to be the bitusd creator, the decentralised bank. People value BTSX as much as they value a decentralized bank that no one can seize their assets, a trading platform that one can safely place market bets in market pegged assets.

VOTE will be more centralised (perhaps one big entity is buying up all the votes) and will process  bitsud to merchants and others. People will value this DAC due to it's centralised security and more easy mass adoption.

Votes can be exchanged with bitusd but bitusd is still only created by short selling in BTSX or bitusd can be created in VOTE DAC as well?
I assume that bitusd will be created by BTSX and this same bitusd will be accepted in VOTE DAC in exchange for votes through cross trading?

So essentially people will want to have bitusd (created from BTSX) to pay and acquire VOTES because they will anticipate that VOTE will have a bigger network effect due to its centralised nature. So at the same time by creating strong demand for bitusd to acquire shares in the VOTE DAC, you increase the demand for BTSX as well?

 

[oco101]

I have a possible solution that wouldn't make BTSX-only investors angry or worried for its future value. Why does BitsharesVote even need bitUSD? In other words, what is the specific reason for Bitshares Vote to need bitUSD?

If there is anything inside the client that wanted to be priced in dollars, you could do so by having Delegates publish price feeds for USD and choosing the median. If you wanted you could put the amount of Vote coins in parentheses like... $1.99 US Dollars (289 Votes). Behind the scenes it converts the US dollar amount into Vote coins (or whatever they're called.)

Also... I thought Bitshares has been advertising that all DACs will be linked together and that you can use bitUSD in any other DAC. Is that not the case anymore or was it a misunderstanding? As in each DAC can have their own bitUSD, but they won't be linked.

IMO splitting up the liquidity and volume of the bitUSD market is a mistake. It is already bad enough.

The reason to have bitUSD is the same like in Music. If you have an account open and you put 10 dollars that are converted in Notes, the problem is NOTES fluctuates so 1 month later his 10 dollars in his account are not anymore 10 $. So every chain absolutely needs bitUSD(or bitCurrency) if not we go back to original problem : stability.

One solution maybe the Bitmeat proposal every chain will mint bitCurrency  basically automatically not trading involved.
BitshareX will  still be use as a trading platform, everybody will use that platform for paying employee merchants and so on it will still grow at the same pace like before.
The AltDACS will use their own bitCurrencys for paying DAC expenses and offer the stability of bitUSD but nobody will keep money in VOTES . One more benefit having bitCurrency is the cross trading will be possible.

BitshareX will remain exactly what is is now. You Virtual Bank and Exchange and Forex all other DAC will be just businesses that use bitUSD. You don't go to Wallmart for you mortgage do you ?

[CoinHoarder]

I have a possible solution that wouldn't make BTSX-only investors angry or worried for its future value. Why does BitsharesVote even need bitUSD? In other words, what is the specific reason for Bitshares Vote to need bitUSD?

If there is anything inside the client that wanted to be priced in dollars, you could do so by having Delegates publish price feeds for USD and choosing the median. If you wanted you could put the amount of Vote coins in parentheses like... $1.99 US Dollars (289 Votes). Behind the scenes it converts the US dollar amount into Vote coins (or whatever they're called.)

Also... I thought Bitshares has been advertising that all DACs will be linked together and that you can use bitUSD in any other DAC. Is that not the case anymore or was it a misunderstanding? As in each DAC can have their own bitUSD, but they won't be linked. I thought BTSX was supposed to be "the bank" of Bitshares DACs and we would implement atomic cross chain trading to use bitUSD in other DACs? https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Atomic_cross-chain_trading

IMO splitting up the liquidity and volume of the bitUSD market is a mistake. It is already bad enough.