IMPORTANT: BTS Merger (Poll)

[fuzzy]

Voting has now been locked.  311 seemed a good number to end on:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqCWDXbdCR4  seems an apt song for this moment in bitshares history..

@BitSapphire...is there a place where we can relocate this thread to?  I believe it she should probably be retired. The old gal has served her purpose.  Maybe she'd like to rest at the elephant graveyard for future calves to visit and determine the weight of her influence in the context of their age and circumstance...

[xeroc]

2 years l can not touch my money,, hey my name s john smith invest your money on me for two years will double it for u. fishyyy

[ ] you understood the proposal

[onceuponatime]

2 years l can not touch my money,, hey my name s john smith invest your money on me for two years will double it for u. fishyyy

PTS, AGS, VOTE and DNS stakes will vest linearly over 2 years, meaning that each day users will get to claim some of their stake.

[Riverhead]

The 2 year vesting is only for the 500M shares being air dropped on PTS/AGS/DNS. There is no vesting period for BTS. If you don't want the two years sell for BTSX and stay liquid post snapshot.

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

[neo1344]

2 years l can not touch my money,, hey my name s john smith invest your money on me for two years will double it for u. fishyyy

[dna_gym]

Considering the momentum towards the merger, I cannot resist it. And I think the reasoning behind the merger looks rational.
Though I feel like Bitshares is going to a dangerous path. If that merger idea (and dilution) works it's great.
BM is pioneering new ground so there is always a risk. I hope a good outcome. 

[skywalker861]

ridiculous idea！

[donkeypong]

It's going to be really important to have a good model for reaching decisions. There will be a lot of group decisions to make on delegates' propositions, etc., as this thing goes forward. The forum is good for discussion, but perhaps not the ideal place for decision-making.

Thanks, Brent, for providing your assurances. I just think we're dealing with a particularly suspicious audience in cryptos. If you put that tool on an independent website that was not religiously affiliated, and if you did not require as much identity information for folks to register, you probably would get a lot more people participating. Thanks for your work on this.

[Thom]

Brent -

First I want to thank you for your efforts to assist this community with achieving consensus.

It's serendipity I'm reading this again while receiving a phone call on a very similar problem about a local group and their apathy to use a custom website tailored to the group vs. facebook.

I'm not a fan of having my identity strewn across zillions of websites for easy pickens for someone to build a profile of my habits, tastes and personality. That is one issue.

I took a quick look at the link you provided but frankly I don't get a flavor of how it will help to build consensus. Not saying it can't or won't, but I'd like to understand the methodologies the tool uses to achieve that. My apathy towards it is due to 1) lack of knowledge about the tool and 2) not willing to be the first to put myself out there when I don't see others with MUCH more at stake than I doing so. It doesn't build my confidence in the tool's utility, and frankly there isn't any until the major stakeholders state their positions and rationale there.

That's how I see it anyway. Perhaps you might try to PM some of the more vocal people here and see if you could persuade them to post their positions and get things rolling, or you yourself could distill some of the posts here and setup positions people could rally behind or to be for or against. Seems like a catalyst of some sort is required to get thinks moving.

[fuzzy]

OK, we've thrown up a first stab at a start of a consensus building survey topic on this bitshares merger proposal at Canonizer.com titled: " BTS Dilution / Merger Survey":

http://canonizer.com/topic.asp/160

I've started by splitting the general, "should BtsX ever be diluted" at the most important level, as that seems to be the most important and fundamental issue of disagreement.  We plan to create a sub camp of the "Rarely Delute" camp representing the state of the art of the leading consensus camp of exactly what, how, and when... it will be done.  Now we need someone to provide a concise description of their view of the state of the art of what is being or what should be proposed so we can start building and tracking how much consensus, we can achieve for this and all competing proposals.

As always, this is just the first draft stab at a consensus building survey topic.  Anything can change at any time by anyone.  Hopefully people will see a better way of doing things and help make the improvements in a wiki way.  Lots of small contributions and people joining camps are what will make this great and amplify everyone's wisdom on what is the best thing to do.  If a camp representing what you believe is already there, sign and join it to help it along.  If your exact view isn't yet included, please help to get that view started, so others can start building expert consensus around the best ideas.

 

[Brent.Allsop]

Hi Thom and donkeypong,

Thanks for pointing out this important issue.  One must first realize that this is JUST a prototype system that has been developed by open source volunteers, that is all.  There are lots of things it needs besides just this.  It needs to be integrated into the Bitshares ID system, so you can login with that, and so that can validate uniqueness, and so we can build canonizer algorithms based on how many shares one holds, we need at least some type of login system to help with that problem till we have that ability, and so on.  Also, once you do create a log in, you can "support" and/or contribute to a camp, anonymously by creating an anonymous ID.

Rest assured that if anyone does create an account, we will not use your information for anything other than to identify you in the canonizer.com prototype system for purposes of preventing people from creating many identities to cheat the system and so on.

Again, this is only a crude early prototype that still needs lots of work.  But there is enough there to start building consensus.  Everything else out there now, and what we are doing in the forums just wastes everyone's time, destroys and fractures consensus.  I'd bet the chaos going on in the forums right now is what is causing the BitsharesX price to crash.  If we had some concise descriptions of the state of the art of the leading camps everyone could get easy access to, and a quantitative measure of how much consensus there was, who this consensus was, without all this noise and chaos nobody can fallow, the price of BTSX will surely go through the roof.  All crypto currency systems are running into these kinds of development problems, and the first comunity to solve this scalability problem will easily win this battle to rule the world.  The community that can best build consensus the fasted and most intelligently on a large scale will win.

So it will take some effort, and this kind of pain, to get things started, and eventually we will get things resolved and fully developed.  Things will speed up if people help with the development.  For example, maybe you or anyone would care to add some disclaimers about we will not use anyone e-mail for anything, to the open source system to alleviate some of the fears?  Or at least make some specific proposals of what text to put where, so everyone is happy?

Brent Allsop

[Thom]

OK, we've thrown up a first stab at a start of a consensus building survey topic on this bitshares merger proposal at Canonizer.com titled: " BTS Dilution / Merger Survey":

http://canonizer.com/topic.asp/160

I've started by splitting the general, "should BtsX ever be diluted" at the most important level, as that seems to be the most important and fundamental issue of disagreement.  We plan to create a sub camp of the "Rarely Delute" camp representing the state of the art of the leading consensus camp of exactly what, how, and when... it will be done.  Now we need someone to provide a concise description of their view of the state of the art of what is being or what should be proposed so we can start building and tracking how much consensus, we can achieve for this and all competing proposals.

As always, this is just the first draft stab at a consensus building survey topic.  Anything can change at any time by anyone.  Hopefully people will see a better way of doing things and help make the improvements in a wiki way.  Lots of small contributions and people joining camps are what will make this great and amplify everyone's wisdom on what is the best thing to do.  If a camp representing what you believe is already there, sign and join it to help it along.  If your exact view isn't yet included, please help to get that view started, so others can start building expert consensus around the best ideas.

With all due respect, I'm not sure all forum members would be comfortable signing up for an account on your site first, not fully understanding the Mormon Transhumanist Association. With polls, etc., people like to remain anonymous. If you want wider participation, you might want to give assurances that people are remaining anonymous and aren't joining some list.

[donkeypong]

OK, we've thrown up a first stab at a start of a consensus building survey topic on this bitshares merger proposal at Canonizer.com titled: " BTS Dilution / Merger Survey":

http://canonizer.com/topic.asp/160

I've started by splitting the general, "should BtsX ever be diluted" at the most important level, as that seems to be the most important and fundamental issue of disagreement.  We plan to create a sub camp of the "Rarely Delute" camp representing the state of the art of the leading consensus camp of exactly what, how, and when... it will be done.  Now we need someone to provide a concise description of their view of the state of the art of what is being or what should be proposed so we can start building and tracking how much consensus, we can achieve for this and all competing proposals.

As always, this is just the first draft stab at a consensus building survey topic.  Anything can change at any time by anyone.  Hopefully people will see a better way of doing things and help make the improvements in a wiki way.  Lots of small contributions and people joining camps are what will make this great and amplify everyone's wisdom on what is the best thing to do.  If a camp representing what you believe is already there, sign and join it to help it along.  If your exact view isn't yet included, please help to get that view started, so others can start building expert consensus around the best ideas.

With all due respect, I'm not sure all forum members would be comfortable signing up for an account on your site first, not fully understanding the Mormon Transhumanist Association. With polls, etc., people like to remain anonymous. If you want wider participation, you might want to give assurances that people are remaining anonymous and aren't joining some list.

[Brent.Allsop]

OK, we've thrown up a first stab at a start of a consensus building survey topic on this bitshares merger proposal at Canonizer.com titled: " BTS Dilution / Merger Survey":

http://canonizer.com/topic.asp/160

I've started by splitting the general, "should BtsX ever be diluted" at the most important level, as that seems to be the most important and fundamental issue of disagreement.  We plan to create a sub camp of the "Rarely Delute" camp representing the state of the art of the leading consensus camp of exactly what, how, and when... it will be done.  Now we need someone to provide a concise description of their view of the state of the art of what is being or what should be proposed so we can start building and tracking how much consensus, we can achieve for this and all competing proposals.

As always, this is just the first draft stab at a consensus building survey topic.  Anything can change at any time by anyone.  Hopefully people will see a better way of doing things and help make the improvements in a wiki way.  Lots of small contributions and people joining camps are what will make this great and amplify everyone's wisdom on what is the best thing to do.  If a camp representing what you believe is already there, sign and join it to help it along.  If your exact view isn't yet included, please help to get that view started, so others can start building expert consensus around the best ideas.

[infovortice2013]

why 2 year lock in over bts?

total bts produced ? 500.000.000?

what transfer rate will be applied for pts -btsx- vote- dns  (note is included?)

bitshares music go in pack of bts?