Introducing Sparkle - BitShares meets Proof of Work.

[fuzzy]

I heartily support this effort and this thread makes us look like a cult.

I disagree.  People invested hard money into these projects and the very nature of the crypto-game is one that is very dangerous to investment precisely because anyone can fork your work and call it your own.  It is human nature to be protective of what you believe in.  I do not call that a cult (though some people have probably been overly harsh of the OP).

Please don't let anyone discourage you!
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

Agreed.  Noone should be discouraged from doing what they want to do...this includes people on both sides of the equation. 

I, for instance, will be looked down upon by staunch BTS supporters for my interest in keeping PTS alive.  I do it anyway because I believe in what I'm doing.  Others may or may not like it...and I welcome their criticisms.  If we do not welcome criticism we cannot grow.  So use it as a growing experience and an opportunity to understand the aspects upon which can be improved...or (and I know this will likely be unpopular) as a means of deciding whether the PTS/AGS/BTS community is a good fit for sharedropping.  There are others! (but don't think all their members will welcome you with open arms either)

[toast]

I heartily support this effort and this thread makes us look like a cult.

Please don't let anyone discourage you!

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

[Frodo]

I think this is a cool idea to bridge the gap between Bitcoin and BitShares. And now that the idea exists someone is probably going to create a coin like this either ways, so we can just be happy and pick this one as it has a good initial distribution.

[fuzzy]

@all: let me know if sparkle should get it's own subboard section on third party DACs…

I personally think it makes sense to have dedicated subboard section for sparkle.

As of tech description from OP, I honestly think that simple hashing PoW is not enough, especially taking into account SHA512, so I agree with FreeTrade on considering some more sophisticated PoW.

As of PoW in general, in some cases PoW is not entirely Proof-Of-Waste - good example is PrimeCoin. And designing good and useful PoW is non-trivial task by itself.

So I personally will follow sparkle development closely, and will support it with mining software when it reaches production/realnet stage.
 

Follow @yvg1900 on Twitter to get updates on performance mining software

I think it is a good idea to put it as a 3rd party DAC.  Why not?  I am open to MANY awesome projects.  Just not a fan of Charlie Daniels...he just feels, well, I'll be nice. 

Now. Let's see.  Does anyone have any idea what Ethereum is planning on doing?  Are they going to use DPOS?  I think if they did, it would put them at odds with the mining cartels.  It would also make it so they couldn't position themselves as the "grand visionaries" of our time (because people would ultimately follow the breadcrumbs back to Dan's work to realize he is the true visionary). 

So this project, especially if so quickly protected by Charlie and his "Devil Went Down to Georgia" remix, seems like it COULD be a way to sign the community's best minds on to test a project that will not necessarily go anywhere by itself, but could be a stepping stone to providing competition that could fit in as "the best of both worlds".  If it worked, it would make bitcoin (proof of waste) people happy and also make bitshares (DPOS) people happy.  A neutral tech that will take on enough of two technologies to bring both cults together.  Now that's some gravy!

But I am sure it is impossible and I should never consider that someone in crypto would try to undercut another project.  I mean that NEVER happens.  We all know it never happens and if it did...well let us just deride it the possibility as a "conspiracy" and dismiss potential where it exists because we don't want to carry an unpopular or "exlusive" label. 

When asking questions and being critical becomes unpopular, it never serves us well.  Charlie plays such wonderful music, it is a wonder why he would ever be frustrated by others' criticisms.

[fuzzy]

Here's my fundamental frustration. There are some here who approach every outside project from the perspective that they are fundamentally flawed both economically and technologically, the products of hard work like media exposure are the consequences of special NWO connections, and when a project is radically more successful than yours it's just somehow because the world isn't enlightened enough or just all marketing.

A lot of you have invested a huge amount of time and money into the idea of bitshares. Are you really happy with the progress that has been made, the ad hoc decision making process, and the lack of effective communication? Maybe there is a reason why bitshares doesn't get as much media exposure as the 2.0s and it doesn't involve a conspiracy?

And you gonna change that by this post of yours how? Other than opening our eyes to the great truth you are here to deliver, which otherwise we are too blind to see?

The worst part is, *one* guy out of thousands attacked Sparkle.  Cue Charlie.

He takes one data point and start extrapolating the behavior of a whole community over it.  We've seen this same thing before.

Charlie Daniels?  I thought he was part of a grand conspiracy from the planet Nebulon, brought to earth in the form of the CIA/Illuminati/Free Mason's Triumvirate.  But Damn does he play some good music...

[yvg1900]

@all: let me know if sparkle should get it's own subboard section on third party DACs…

I personally think it makes sense to have dedicated subboard section for sparkle.

As of tech description from OP, I honestly think that simple hashing PoW is not enough, especially taking into account SHA512, so I agree with FreeTrade on considering some more sophisticated PoW.

As of PoW in general, in some cases PoW is not entirely Proof-Of-Waste - good example is PrimeCoin. And designing good and useful PoW is non-trivial task by itself.

So I personally will follow sparkle development closely, and will support it with mining software when it reaches production/realnet stage.
 

Follow @yvg1900 on Twitter to get updates on performance mining software

[Riverhead]

This is actually a very interesting project. Splitting APG/PTS is a great gesture for community support and involvement in fleshing out this idea.

Like any large community you're going to get supporters and detractors. Since you're embarking on this project I am guessing you are not new to crypto and know this already.

Like a classic Ford vs Chevy, Coke vs Pepsi, Petrol vs Electric: this is DPOS vs POW.

Really if it brings in some PoW folks to a feature set of Bitshares the world will benefit from the wider adoption.

[FreeTrade]

@all: let me know if sparkle should get it's own subboard section on third party DACs…

Maybe you could split this topic into 2 - posts about the original topic, and posts about the community members. Feel free to delete this post as it doesn't fit in either.

[cass]

@all: let me know if sparkle should get it's own subboard section on third party DACs…

[oco101]

Sparkle, if you manage to pool this thing off with POW this is great. Bitshares is an experiment, and there is a lot more in Bithsares than DPOS, doing that with POW it is a challenge but by all means do it. Keep in mind there are a lot of ideas discussed in this forum and almost none have full approval from everybody  bytemaster's idea included so don't expect to have consensus, witch is perfectly normal and it happens in any other community. If you can't take it well, there is a world of POW community's  out there  that probably will be less critical. If not stay here explained your reason talk about your team your timelines and probably you'll get more credibility from this forum. Blindly accepting unproven ideas or members is not bitsharestalk.org strongest suit.

[FreeTrade]

Sparkle is the first next-generation block chain built around proof-of-work but with all of the latest innovations provided by BitShares, including BitAssets and paid workers.

Sparkle uses the SHA512 hashing algorithm for proof of work and expects to change the proof of work algorithm based upon delegate consensus.     

Interesting - I'm more leaning toward DPOS now, but this could be a useful backup in case DPOS fails in some catastrophic way.

2 things -

1. I wonder if you'd consider a more CPU friendly initial proof-of-waste
2. I wonder if you'd consider a wider sharedrop - across BTC, LTC, DOGE, PPC addresses maybe

[santaclause102]

I can't argue with your analysis. You are right that I have made some assumptions without proof.  They were based only on gut feelings and a lifetime of experience.

If you think that OP has the greater good as his motivation, rather than a much narrower focus on personal gain at the expense of the greater good (ie, FREEDOM), I can only suggest that you are basing your opinion on ZERO evidence (and possibly MUCH less experience than mine)

Thanks for this reasonable post of yours!

As a matter of fact we simply do not know what the intentions of the OP are. But that is something that is almost always not known, at least not with absolute certainty. The only thing we can do is to assume that he (like anyone) has the best intentions which makes it more likely that that person will actually act like you think he will act (self fulfilling prophecies are powerful).

Also I think it does not matter sometimes what someone's intention's are: For one it doesn't matter because I anyway can't change it. And it doesn't matter much in this case because even if he only has a profit motive (which is legitimate) he will not harm the bitshares project. I think it will help to draw attention to bitshares ideas and innovations: One more project on coinmarket cap that thinks bitshares ideas are valid. One more channel to the POW "believers" to check out bitshares....

[onceuponatime]

He's just getting the warm bitshares welcome

He's posting as a newbie, signed up to the forum first time today. That is deceitful, and does not allow us to evaluate his previous postings for intentions, helpfulness, philosophical leanings, etc.

And without first bouncing his ideas off of the community, he is "looking for help creating the logo and a web page for Sparkle" on the main Discussion page of the Bitsharestalk forum at a time when we are attempting to concentrate community members efforts and attention on BTS marketing.

There is a sub Board called:      Third Party DACs

Not everyone who posts on the Bitsharestalk.org forum has the best for the BitShares community as his motivation.

You assume I have posted here before without any evidence that I am anything more than a lurker. 

I have a large stake in BTS and noticed there was a market segment that wasn't being met and that BTS could not meet so I thought I would launch a product to fill the void and allow AGS/PTS holders to capture what ever value the market places on a POW version of BTS.   

If POW is doomed to fail then this project is no threat to BTS.  I happen to think that POW is here for a while and that a POW version of BTS properly promoted to the mining faithful will gain a relatively high market cap.

I was confused by onceuponatime's post too. He made assumption's about you he couldn't verify and judged you based on that.

Here's my fundamental frustration. There are some here who approach every outside project from the perspective that they are fundamentally flawed both economically and technologically, the products of hard work like media exposure are the consequences of special NWO connections, and when a project is radically more successful than yours it's just somehow because the world isn't enlightened enough or just all marketing.

A lot of you have invested a huge amount of time and money into the idea of bitshares. Are you really happy with the progress that has been made, the ad hoc decision making process, and the lack of effective communication? Maybe there is a reason why bitshares doesn't get as much media exposure as the 2.0s and it doesn't involve a conspiracy?

I agree that many in here are arrogant and harsh to people with a non bitshares perspective and I think that is totally unproductive for the bitshares community because it does not allow a good content focused discussion (instead the discussions become personal like this one)!

I would encourage you (charles) to not generalize the attitude of some forum members onto "the community". If it are some that behave like you described say it so ("some on this forum").

I just received a PM:
onceuponatime,
You have received a warning for insulting other users in this thread https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=11634.msg153163#msg153163 . Regardless of what happened, please abide to the forum rules and be nice to one another.
Regards,
The BitShares Forum Team.
***************************************************************
Since I am absolutely without an inkling of how I have transgressed forum rules, I will have to make this my last post (I was unable to respond to the PM - apparently "BitShares Forum" doesn't accept replies ).

I appreciate it that some moderator has taken the initiative to send you that message. Your rude and personally insulting behavior certainly is not in the interest of the community because it detracts the attention of people away from the content and onto personal and moral issues as you can see.

Give us your previous username(s) on this forum or get lost.

If you don't think that was rude, I don't know what is. You could have just said: In case you have been active on this forum before it would help to know your user name so I can make more sense of where your wanna go with this.

DPOS is the blood, sweat, toil, and tears that forged bitshares. "Introduce?" No, I wont let myself be introduced.. I won't shake your hand, I won't look you in the eye... if this was the inquisition, you'd be burned at the stake.

Wow... DPOS is just as much a religion as POW.

We make a great mistake if we see the materilalization of bitshares technology (DPOS, BitAssets etc.) as an ultimate truth. They are a means to an end and should be treated like this!

It is the mistake that is killing the Bitcoin community atm. They stop thinking rationally and ahead and instead have "hope" in a person (satoshi) and made a religion of what that prophet/satoshi has "given to them" (POW). Instead be friendly to those that "are against your religion" and appreciate what you can learn from their different perspective!


On the content I love the OP's proposal and think it brings GREAT VALUE to the community because it will introduce many ideas bitshares has come up with to the Bitcoin/POW community!

I can't argue with your analysis. You are right that I have made some assumptions without proof.  They were based only on gut feelings and a lifetime of experience.

If you think that OP has the greater good as his motivation, rather than a much narrower focus on personal gain at the expense of the greater good (ie, FREEDOM), I can only suggest that you are basing your opinion on ZERO evidence (and possibly MUCH less experience than mine)

[santaclause102]

He's just getting the warm bitshares welcome

He's posting as a newbie, signed up to the forum first time today. That is deceitful, and does not allow us to evaluate his previous postings for intentions, helpfulness, philosophical leanings, etc.

And without first bouncing his ideas off of the community, he is "looking for help creating the logo and a web page for Sparkle" on the main Discussion page of the Bitsharestalk forum at a time when we are attempting to concentrate community members efforts and attention on BTS marketing.

There is a sub Board called:      Third Party DACs

Not everyone who posts on the Bitsharestalk.org forum has the best for the BitShares community as his motivation.

You assume I have posted here before without any evidence that I am anything more than a lurker. 

I have a large stake in BTS and noticed there was a market segment that wasn't being met and that BTS could not meet so I thought I would launch a product to fill the void and allow AGS/PTS holders to capture what ever value the market places on a POW version of BTS.   

If POW is doomed to fail then this project is no threat to BTS.  I happen to think that POW is here for a while and that a POW version of BTS properly promoted to the mining faithful will gain a relatively high market cap.

I was confused by onceuponatime's post too. He made assumption's about you he couldn't verify and judged you based on that.

Here's my fundamental frustration. There are some here who approach every outside project from the perspective that they are fundamentally flawed both economically and technologically, the products of hard work like media exposure are the consequences of special NWO connections, and when a project is radically more successful than yours it's just somehow because the world isn't enlightened enough or just all marketing.

A lot of you have invested a huge amount of time and money into the idea of bitshares. Are you really happy with the progress that has been made, the ad hoc decision making process, and the lack of effective communication? Maybe there is a reason why bitshares doesn't get as much media exposure as the 2.0s and it doesn't involve a conspiracy?

I agree that many in here are arrogant and harsh to people with a non bitshares perspective and I think that is totally unproductive for the bitshares community because it does not allow a good content focused discussion (instead the discussions become personal like this one)!

I would encourage you (charles) to not generalize the attitude of some forum members onto "the community". If it are some that behave like you described say it so ("some on this forum").

I just received a PM:
onceuponatime,
You have received a warning for insulting other users in this thread https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=11634.msg153163#msg153163 . Regardless of what happened, please abide to the forum rules and be nice to one another.
Regards,
The BitShares Forum Team.
***************************************************************
Since I am absolutely without an inkling of how I have transgressed forum rules, I will have to make this my last post (I was unable to respond to the PM - apparently "BitShares Forum" doesn't accept replies ).

I appreciate it that some moderator has taken the initiative to send you that message. Your rude and personally insulting behavior certainly is not in the interest of the community because it detracts the attention of people away from the content and onto personal and moral issues as you can see.

Give us your previous username(s) on this forum or get lost.

If you don't think that was rude, I don't know what is. You could have just said: In case you have been active on this forum before it would help to know your user name so I can make more sense of where your wanna go with this.

DPOS is the blood, sweat, toil, and tears that forged bitshares. "Introduce?" No, I wont let myself be introduced.. I won't shake your hand, I won't look you in the eye... if this was the inquisition, you'd be burned at the stake.

Wow... DPOS is just as much a religion as POW.

We make a great mistake if we see the materilalization of bitshares technology (DPOS, BitAssets etc.) as an ultimate truth. They are a means to an end and should be treated like this!

It is the mistake that is killing the Bitcoin community atm. They stop thinking rationally and ahead and instead have "hope" in a person (satoshi) and made a religion of what that prophet/satoshi has "given to them" (POW). Instead be friendly to those that "are against your religion" and appreciate what you can learn from their different perspective!


On the content I love the OP's proposal and think it brings GREAT VALUE to the community because it will introduce many ideas bitshares has come up with to the Bitcoin/POW community!

[gamey]

I just received a PM:


onceuponatime,

You have received a warning for insulting other users in this thread https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=11634.msg153163#msg153163 . Regardless of what happened, please abide to the forum rules and be nice to one another.

Regards,
The BitShares Forum Team.

***************************************************************

Since I am absolutely without an inkling of how I have transgressed forum rules, I will have to make this my last post (I was unable to respond to the PM - apparently "BitShares Forum" doesn't accept replies ).

There is a link in this message.  It was for you attacking the Sparkles project.

Obviously don't leave over this.  Just take the silly lump and keep at it.  You annoyed me at first, but I sure don't want to see you leave.  I just hate seeing people attack third party DACs which is what motivated some of us to donate in this project to begin with.