Keyhotee Status Update

[AdamBLevine]

 

[dannotestein]

If I were you, I'd say "January 31st - Fixing Bugs today, dealing with a bad one in linux dependencies.  Looking like we're on schedule to have the latest version out in a week barring show-stopping bugs"

Thats it

Maybe you're thinking I mean "Blog post" - I do not.  I mean an update so when something goes awry we see it that day instead of at some arbitrary point in the future you decide to publicly talk about it.
Two sentences per day, I now have some idea what's happening and I know that the schedule has not changed.  It also fulfills what Bytemaster publicly committed to.

Ok, here's today's post: We're currently planning to release a blockchain version around Feb 28th. We'll also be releasing a Windows alpha 3 release soon and very probably an OSX release, pending positive feedback on the Linux 3 alpha release from yesterday.

[oco101]

• Invictus first release was Protoshares. The innovation that was introduced was the Proof-Of-Work algorithm that was supposed to be hardened or resistant based on memory bus speeds. However this was not successful.
• Protoshares was also not the most ideal form of crowd-funding for the company so they confused the matter and hurt early adopters  of Protoshares by introducing AngelShares. Regardless of how the math works out, introducing another form of investment seed into the company confused/goes back on the social contract.
• Invictus planned to release keyhotee the first product on NYE 2013. That was not a success. The next status and estimate was late January. That was not a success. Now you are saying end of february, without a hard committal date.
• Invictus plans on releasing bitshares its real first claim to fame, and one of the first originators of distributed exchange concept. Here we have no real idea where they are in development, and what the release date is. Meanwhile we have other big ventures competing in the space WITH a release date

-Protoshare Gpu mining is is just a little better that CPU mining, so to me this was a success.
-How AngelShare hurt Protoshare investors ? Now you got a much better deal as a protoshare holder  then before. The only unhappy protoshare holders are those that wanted to make a quick profit and view protoshare as another altcoin.  Angelshares actualy helps protoshare holders in the long run. The AGS founds will be use to help  DAC industry. Now 3I could do a lot more then before and this give protoshare much more value then ever, more founds more DAC's more developer, more marketing more of everything.
-I think we a have a real idea  on the bitshares developments and the timeline. Daily updates are here : https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=1890.0

[dannotestein]

Maybe it's an idea to just create a simple list online (split in work items and bugfixes) build from your todo list and break it down to easy to digest parts so it's clear for everyone, if possible even with an expected delivery date. Whenever something is finished just mark it as completed and point the people to the updated document online once or twice a week. So at least it's clear what's to come and where you're standing in the development process.

Essentially that's what the github links are. We have a list of issues, which are either new features we need to add or bugs that we need to fix. We also have a wiki page where the design is laid out over the long term and should be more static (this latter needs a lot of work still, and I hoped to spend time on it today, hence I haven't wanted to add an explicit link to it yet). Now github may not be the best system for this, but it's what we've had to work with so far. It's been working reasonably well for coordinating a geographically distributed team. I know that other guys at Invictus are currently working on rolling out a potentially better system, but I'm not directly involved in that effort, I'll just be a consumer once it's done.

[AdamBLevine]

Dan/Bytemaster asked for me to do daily updates, but I don't really see the point, nor is it obvious to me how to translate detailed bugs addressed on a daily basis into a digestible form. If you want daily updates, here's the best place:

If I were you, I'd say "January 31st - Fixing Bugs today, dealing with a bad one in linux dependencies.  Looking like we're on schedule to have the latest version out in a week barring show-stopping bugs"

Thats it

Maybe you're thinking I mean "Blog post" - I do not.  I mean an update so when something goes awry we see it that day instead of at some arbitrary point in the future you decide to publicly talk about it.
Two sentences per day, I now have some idea what's happening and I know that the schedule has not changed.  It also fulfills what Bytemaster publicly committed to.

[rysgc]

I understand it's hard to give daily updates, after all the majority won't be interested in every little bug fix or small new feature in the likes of 'Look now you can add a hyperlink to a message'. On the other hand people are desperately waiting for a steady release and might get impatient or look somewhere else if there aren't any updates available. That being said I think there are better ways for people to solve this then to start a flame thread which might make things worse.

Maybe it's an idea to just create a simple list online (split in work items and bugfixes) build from your todo list and break it down to easy to digest parts so it's clear for everyone, if possible even with an expected delivery date. Whenever something is finished just mark it as completed and point the people to the updated document online once or twice a week. So at least it's clear what's to come and where you're standing in the development process.

Note to my self: I have to do this as well for KIDARC 

[dannotestein]

To be clear, neither you nor anyone else will be providing daily updates?   I believe it would do a lot to restore confidence if that were to happen instead of being another initiative announced and abandoned with little fanfare.

I've given links to provide the best possible daily status update that I can think of to provide. I'm not trying to be disingenuous here: I simply don't know a better way to summarize a day's programming work. Generally, major changes in software don't happen in one day.

[dannotestein]

Dan,
 To your point, this is not a dictatorship, so why if YOU are the only one here who does not feel their should be a daily status update. Then there should not be one. Isn't that a dictatorship?

No, I'm not saying there shouldn't be a daily status update. I've given links to provide the best possible daily status update that I can think of to provide. If someone has a better way to do it, I still haven't heard it.

So I bring all this up, because I ask you. As a investor. How am I supposed to speculate on the given success of Invictus. Given that now i'm still interested, come on your website to share my frustration, and get attacked as a conspirator and get abrasive responses.

You guys should really hire someone to handle PR/Customer Relations.

(I apologize if any of my facts were incorrect, and welcome factual evidence based corrections)

I'm not our marketing manager, so it probably isn't appropriate for me to respond in detail to your view of Invictus's success or failure to date: I'm supposed to be spending my time heading up Keyhotee software development (and since we don't stop for weekends, its what I've been doing between all these posts). I do feel free to say that I'm personally a significant and ongoing donator to the AngelShares fund, because I do believe strongly in Invictus's goals and potential. Perhaps to you, Invictus has been moving slowly, but from my own 25+ years experience in software development, Invictus is moving very rapidly from a very small start. Our team is growing at a reasonable, steady pace, and AngelShares has really opened up the possibility for more rapid growth in the future.

[ppimp]

Dan,
 To your point, this is not a dictatorship, so why if YOU are the only one here who does not feel their should be a daily status update. Then there should not be one. Isn't that a dictatorship?

I want to express to you that Invictus is unfortunately not in a good position and does not have a good track record. Remember that the current value and worth is based on investors and their speculation. That speculation is based on what we see, hear, and feel about the companies ability to deliver. I want to list out for you the current status of Invictus, and I do this not to take away from your success. But I do this to make you realize that since you are not in a good position, you should go ABOVE and BEYOND in terms of meeting the requests of the stakeholders in your company. I want you to see the perspective from an early adopter and protoshares investor:

• Invictus first release was Protoshares. The innovation that was introduced was the Proof-Of-Work algorithm that was supposed to be hardened or resistant based on memory bus speeds. However this was not successful.
• Protoshares was also not the most ideal form of crowd-funding for the company so they confused the matter and hurt early adopters  of Protoshares by introducing AngelShares. Regardless of how the math works out, introducing another form of investment seed into the company confused/goes back on the social contract.
• Invictus planned to release keyhotee the first product on NYE 2013. That was not a success. The next status and estimate was late January. That was not a success. Now you are saying end of february, without a hard committal date.
• Invictus plans on releasing bitshares its real first claim to fame, and one of the first originators of distributed exchange concept. Here we have no real idea where they are in development, and what the release date is. Meanwhile we have other big ventures competing in the space WITH a release date

So I bring all this up, because I ask you. As a investor. How am I supposed to speculate on the given success of Invictus. Given that now i'm still interested, come on your website to share my frustration, and get attacked as a conspirator and get abrasive responses.

You guys should really hire someone to handle PR/Customer Relations.

(I apologize if any of my facts were incorrect, and welcome factual evidence based corrections)

[AdamBLevine]

To be clear, neither you nor anyone else will be providing daily updates?   I believe it would do a lot to restore confidence if that were to happen instead of being another initiative announced and abandoned with little fanfare.

[dannotestein]

I think it's in really poor taste to not take responsibility for the issue you caused here Dan and instead attack a former investor.   The reason why I spend my time trying to help you guys see when you've gone astray is because I am not the only one with this opinion, i'm the average non-dyed-in-the-wool skeptical investor and you guys are making me want to not be one because you continue to fail to perform as you yourself predict.

Personally I don't think it's appropriate to direct investors to GitHub to look at change-dates or whatever, they are investors and given the inability to deliver to a self-set schedule so far I now actually want daily updates just to see if it's possible for Invictus to perform at this basic level.

You are destroying the trust that remains in Invictus, and it would be great if you could stop that.

So given you know who I am, am I also working against your success?    So far you only seem willing to respond to critiques that follow on my original critiques and respond to me indirectly, I find that a little discouraging for such a transparent company.     I really hope you'll do the right thing.

Hi Adam,

I thought I had responded to your previous post, even though I didn't directly quote you. In your previous post, you said:

You realize the only issue is that daily updates were explicitly promised and then routinely and repeatedly not delivered with no explanation?

I apologized to those who were upset with me not immediately expressing my disagreement with the idea of a daily status update, and I assumed it was obvious that you were one such person. I further assumed that was taking responsibility for the issue. If it's part of forum etiquette I wasn't aware of to always include a direct quote when responding to a post, I apologize for that too, I wasn't aware of it, perhaps as I haven't traditionally used forum posting as a major communications means. As far as your statement goes, you were correct, as soon as I read Dan's post requesting it, I should have responded with my reasons why I think it's not a useful way to communicate the development of software. To me, there's no obvious way to summarize a set of changes made every day to software that will benefit anyone. If the commit comments aren't clear enough to non-progammers (and I'm sure they're not always clear), at least commits should be quite a bit of reassurance that work is actively being performed by a number of individuals at a fairly constant rate.

[oco101]

Listen, if you guys could just pick a date, commit to that date, and release on that date. I wouldn't even want a status update. Also I never even wanted daily status updates. That's something that the CEO OF THE COMPANY asked you to do in public, and not only you refused, you are arguing with your investors on WHY YOU FEEL you shouldn't do it.

So, you don't think it's reasonable for me to explain why I disagree with generating daily status reports or to propose an alternate method of delivering this information? Invictus isn't a dictatorship. We debate issues like this, then move ahead. Unlike most companies, we don't do it behind closed doors, we do it here on the forums, so that others have a chance to at least contribute their opinions. I apologize to anyone who's upset that I didn't register my disagreement on this issue earlier, but I hope I've provided a solution to this issue that should work for those who want daily information about Keyhotee and those who don't. I'm sure I'm not going to make you happy, but it's pretty clear from your 3 posts so far to bitshares.org that you're not a supporter of bitshares, and I personally believe that you're actively working against our success.

I agree that Invictus it is very open and we all appreciated you transparency as a company. This it is one of the reason we have trust in bytemaster and the full 3I team. Indeed you provided a good solution about the daily updates and this should solve the problem you are a programmer after all . I have no doubt that all of you are doing a amazing job and advancing as quickly as you on can in all fronts. Keep up the good work !!!
But you said   "Unlike most companies, we don't do it behind closed doors, we do it here on the forums, so that others have a chance to at least contribute their opinions." And that exactly what PPimp and AdamBLevine are doing and I have to agree with all the other points they make. I don't see any accusations they are simply pointing  up some facts that should be taken in consideration.

[onceuponatime]

I am a Keyhoteed Founder and an early and frequent investor in Angelshares.

I am completely in concurrence with AdamBLevine's recent posts in this thread. I came to know of Invictus through Lets Talk Bitcoin, and I think it unconscionable that Adam's points were not responded to directly, but at one remove.

[AdamBLevine]

Listen, if you guys could just pick a date, commit to that date, and release on that date. I wouldn't even want a status update. Also I never even wanted daily status updates. That's something that the CEO OF THE COMPANY asked you to do in public, and not only you refused, you are arguing with your investors on WHY YOU FEEL you shouldn't do it.

So, you don't think it's reasonable for me to explain why I disagree with generating daily status reports or to propose an alternate method of delivering this information? Invictus isn't a dictatorship. We debate issues like this, then move ahead. Unlike most companies, we don't do it behind closed doors, we do it here on the forums, so that others have a chance to at least contribute their opinions. I apologize to anyone who's upset that I didn't register my disagreement on this issue earlier, but I hope I've provided a solution to this issue that should work for those who want daily information about Keyhotee and those who don't. I'm sure I'm not going to make you happy, but it's pretty clear from your 3 posts so far to bitshares.org that you're not a supporter of bitshares, and I personally believe that you're actively working against our success.

As far as dates go for a release of Keyhotee with a blockchain attached, there's two separate issues that will dictate the release date: when we've collected all the Keyhotee Founder Id registrations we think we're can reasonably collect and when the software has a reasonable set of initial features and sufficient stability. The first issue is somewhat outside of our complete control, of course, although the alpha releases we put out do affect it. Right now our goal is release the blockchain version of Keyhotee by the end of February, but I'm certainly not promising that date, it's just my best estimate with the current information I have. Initial releases of software aren't like follow-on releases: after you've released a stable product, it's typically not so difficult to estimate the impact of incremental changes to the product, but in the initial stages of new software it's possible to overlook major issues that delay releases.

I think it's in really poor taste to not take responsibility for the issue you caused here Dan and instead attack a former investor.   The reason why I spend my time trying to help you guys see when you've gone astray is because I am not the only one with this opinion, i'm the average non-dyed-in-the-wool skeptical investor and you guys are making me want to not be one because you continue to fail to perform as you yourself predict.

Personally I don't think it's appropriate to direct investors to GitHub to look at change-dates or whatever, they are investors and given the inability to deliver to a self-set schedule so far I now actually want daily updates just to see if it's possible for Invictus to perform at this basic level.

You are destroying the trust that remains in Invictus, and it would be great if you could stop that.

So given you know who I am, am I also working against your success?    So far you only seem willing to respond to critiques that follow on my original critiques and respond to me indirectly, I find that a little discouraging for such a transparent company.     I really hope you'll do the right thing.

[ppimp]

Well I appreciate your viewpoint, and I am not working against your success. I am expressing my frustration, and maybe expecting too much.

I've actually been a longtime lurker on this forum and have finally created an account to express that i'm upset.

And to disapprove your accusation that I have ulterior intentions:

Go to www.reddit.com and look up my name (PPimP) you will see a post I made in r/letstalkbitcoin on Episode 57 where Dan has a interview and in that thread, I ask where can I purchase protoshares? That post was 2 months ago.

Which pretty much verifies everything I've said in my 3 posts...