Openledger Referral Program UP! Time to make money!

[clayop]

Okay, I understand now. This is much better and it could generate someone a serious income for referring heavy users. This incentive is more powerful in aiming at the business we want to attract. And I assume that if we did manage to get the traders here, then theoretically, the incentives could be changed again to fit another need that might arise in the future.

What will be the cost of a lifetime membership now?

Depends on how we define heavy traders and fee reduction rate. I expect at least $5,000

[donkeypong]

Okay, I understand now. This is much better and it could generate someone a serious income for referring heavy users. This incentive is more powerful in aiming at the business we want to attract. And I assume that if we did manage to get the traders here, then theoretically, the incentives could be changed again to fit another need that might arise in the future.

What will be the cost of a lifetime membership now?

[clayop]

For your fun, I made a simple spreasheet for LTM price calculation

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/139sx5ozo3KY7FzF0SeI9q6XFcaAPqejkL0ErNaMyKHk/edit?usp=sharing

[mint chocolate chip]

Under the current referral program none of that money would be going to referrers.   Under the new referral program 80% of that money would be going to referrers. 

So which is going to generate more referral income?  Trading or Transfers?   To generate 540,000 per year from transfers would require a sustained 5 transfers per minute on the network.

What use case do you want to support, an exchange or a currency?   

I think I am sold with this argument. I was not aware that a referred user's trading fees were not passed on to those they refer.
Trading > Transferring
 
I would think that a banner ad that promotes the exciting opportunity to try trading in one of the fastest and largest exchanges in the world is very appealing to our target market.

[clayop]

What use case do you want to support, an exchange or a currency?

Exchange!

I totally agree wit BM. If we can charge the "network fee" of 0.1~0.15% on traders, referrers will get much more money.
BitShares first should be the trader's heaven, no counterparty risks, decent trading speed (1~3sec), honest orderbook, and lower fees (slightly maybe).
If our system is attractive, bots and traders will come and generate money.

Looking forward to reading the worker proposal!

I disagree. a daytrader will upgrade to lifetime and that's it.

as I wrote earlier, if your LT upgrades go down from 10 to maybe 1 per 1000 it's literally a negative marketing initiative. since you will never be able to make enough money to sustain campaigns or even worth your time.

You may miss that LT fee will be much higher than the current level. If LTM reduces the fee from 0.15% to 0.075%, and assume that heavy traders' monthly volume is $50k/month, LTM price should be around $10k, a hundred time than now.

So if one of people who refer you upgrades to LTM, celebrate it. You'll get $8k

[fav]

What use case do you want to support, an exchange or a currency?

Exchange!

I totally agree wit BM. If we can charge the "network fee" of 0.1~0.15% on traders, referrers will get much more money.
BitShares first should be the trader's heaven, no counterparty risks, decent trading speed (1~3sec), honest orderbook, and lower fees (slightly maybe).
If our system is attractive, bots and traders will come and generate money.

Looking forward to reading the worker proposal!

I disagree. a daytrader will upgrade to lifetime and that's it.

as I wrote earlier, if your LT upgrades go down from 10 to maybe 1 per 1000 it's literally a negative marketing initiative. since you will never be able to make enough money to sustain campaigns or even worth your time.

I am talking from an affiliates perspective by the way. if you guys think that will save bitshares, go for it, but don't expect many users in the future

[clayop]

What use case do you want to support, an exchange or a currency?

Exchange!

I totally agree wit BM. If we can charge the "network fee" of 0.1~0.15% on traders, referrers will get much more money.
BitShares first should be the trader's heaven, no counterparty risks, decent trading speed (1~3sec), honest orderbook, and lower fees (slightly maybe).
If our system is attractive, bots and traders will come and generate money.

Looking forward to reading the worker proposal!

[fav]

From a referrer perspective, which is going to generate you more money:  referring 100 people each of which does a few transfers per year  or referring one person who does day trading?

If we can get the day traders then we make money.   Much easier and much more profitable.   I am thinking that the lifetime value of a day trader is much higher than the LTV of a regular user.  This means that the LTM fees should be much higher.

a user that is actually using bitassets is generating revenue.

I'm not sure on what numbers you base you opinion. but if you think daytraders grow on trees for an infinite time and everyone is coming over and upgrades to life time, you gonna have a bad time.

[luckybit]

From a referrer perspective, which is going to generate you more money:  referring 100 people each of which does a few transfers per year  or referring one person who does day trading?

If we can get the day traders then we make money.   Much easier and much more profitable.   I am thinking that the lifetime value of a day trader is much higher than the LTV of a regular user.  This means that the LTM fees should be much higher.

This is very speculative. Sure in the short term a day trader is more valuable but not in the long term.

Also the regular users become day traders. Bitcoin miners became day traders. Referral markets could take their profits and then be day traders as a second job.

I do think if regular users are signing up but not actually using Bitshares that could be a problem but it's so early we don't have much data to work with. There isn't a lot of opportunities which Bitshares is offering and ultimately opportunities to make money will bring in regular people and make them into day traders.

I think the main issue is lack of liquidity, and the bond market can bring the liquidity along with prediction markets.

*** NOT CANCELING THE REFERRAL PROGRAM **

You should not believe everything you read on these forums

  Excellent.

[bytemaster]

*** NOT CANCELING THE REFERRAL PROGRAM **

You should not believe everything you read on these forums

[luckybit]

I'd like to get a definitive answer.

Perhaps my goal is to make BitShares successful and indirectly I benefit. Besides, there's more to a business than just getting some referral income, which according to your numbers (so far at least) doesn't look sustainable as a profitable business, especially if you consider what it would cost to obtain a CNX license before you signed up 42 new users for a 2500 BTS reward.

And that is the secret to the success or failure of Bitshares. Developers have to create as many technical ways for us to make BitShares successful while allowing us to indirectly benefit. The more we can align the two the better the ecosystem will get.

The referral program is just the beginning of course. There is also the Brownie.PTS, the crowd funding opportunities, the potential bond market, the potential prediction market, so we have to basically bootstrap an industry and attract people to the community with mutually benefiting profit opportunities.

If his stats show 42 users / 2500 bts reward figures, then that means none of his referred users upgraded to annual/lifetime accounts, otherwise it would reflect a much higher reward.

currently it's ~10 LT per 1000 sign-ups. this is a numbers game, don't bother looking at my 44 users.

anyways, if BM makes true what he said in today's mumble there's no need to talk about referral program or earning money here anymore. since that will be dead

Can you explain please, I wasn't in the mumble and this sounds like something I want to hear.

there will be a proposal by him, basically nulling all fees except for trading fees.

sounds good at the beginning, but there's absolutely no need for regular users to upgrade their accounts. that makes 10 LT per 1000 to MAYBE 1 (an active trader) per 1000. there's no way a marketer can sustain at that level.

While I wasn't at the mumble today, if he's going to cancel the referral program then I do not support it. The referral program needs to be active for a few months before there are any proposals to cancel any fees.

Whether a marketer can sustain or not is not important. What is important is that it's possible to earn money, it's a job, and if you cut that job away you'll have less of an ecosystem and even less people will want to be involved.

[bytemaster]

From a referrer perspective, which is going to generate you more money:  referring 100 people each of which does a few transfers per year  or referring one person who does day trading?

If we can get the day traders then we make money.   Much easier and much more profitable.   I am thinking that the lifetime value of a day trader is much higher than the LTV of a regular user.  This means that the LTM fees should be much higher.

[bytemaster]

I'd like to get a definitive answer.

Perhaps my goal is to make BitShares successful and indirectly I benefit. Besides, there's more to a business than just getting some referral income, which according to your numbers (so far at least) doesn't look sustainable as a profitable business, especially if you consider what it would cost to obtain a CNX license before you signed up 42 new users for a 2500 BTS reward.

And that is the secret to the success or failure of Bitshares. Developers have to create as many technical ways for us to make BitShares successful while allowing us to indirectly benefit. The more we can align the two the better the ecosystem will get.

The referral program is just the beginning of course. There is also the Brownie.PTS, the crowd funding opportunities, the potential bond market, the potential prediction market, so we have to basically bootstrap an industry and attract people to the community with mutually benefiting profit opportunities.

If his stats show 42 users / 2500 bts reward figures, then that means none of his referred users upgraded to annual/lifetime accounts, otherwise it would reflect a much higher reward.

currently it's ~10 LT per 1000 sign-ups. this is a numbers game, don't bother looking at my 44 users.

anyways, if BM makes true what he said in today's mumble there's no need to talk about referral program or earning money here anymore. since that will be dead

Can you explain please, I wasn't in the mumble and this sounds like something I want to hear.

there will be a proposal by him, basically nulling all fees except for trading fees.

sounds good at the beginning, but there's absolutely no need for regular users to upgrade their accounts. that makes 10 LT per 1000 to MAYBE 1 (an active trader) per 1000. there's no way a marketer can sustain at that level.

The goal isn't to kill the referral program.  But perhaps we need to identify the TYPES of users we want to refer.   

There is a total volume in cryptocurrency of  $ 135,803,639  127M of that is BTC, leaving 8M per day in volume for everything else.
The total trading volume in BTS is about $100K  (recently) meaning the network could be earning $150 per day or $54,000 per year just by moving all BTS trading on chain.   
If we can get the daily volume on the exchange up to $1,000,000  (something BTS has achieved in the past) and simply sustain it then the network would be earning $540,000 per year  (6% yield) on current valuations. 
That is just the trading volume of BTS.   Throw in the trading volume of all the other assets on the BTS chain and the total volume of the exchange will be much higher.

Under the current referral program none of that money would be going to referrers.   Under the new referral program 80% of that money would be going to referrers. 

So which is going to generate more referral income?  Trading or Transfers?   To generate 540,000 per year from transfers would require a sustained 5 transfers per minute on the network.

What use case do you want to support, an exchange or a currency?   

[fav]

I'd like to get a definitive answer.

Perhaps my goal is to make BitShares successful and indirectly I benefit. Besides, there's more to a business than just getting some referral income, which according to your numbers (so far at least) doesn't look sustainable as a profitable business, especially if you consider what it would cost to obtain a CNX license before you signed up 42 new users for a 2500 BTS reward.

And that is the secret to the success or failure of Bitshares. Developers have to create as many technical ways for us to make BitShares successful while allowing us to indirectly benefit. The more we can align the two the better the ecosystem will get.

The referral program is just the beginning of course. There is also the Brownie.PTS, the crowd funding opportunities, the potential bond market, the potential prediction market, so we have to basically bootstrap an industry and attract people to the community with mutually benefiting profit opportunities.

If his stats show 42 users / 2500 bts reward figures, then that means none of his referred users upgraded to annual/lifetime accounts, otherwise it would reflect a much higher reward.

currently it's ~10 LT per 1000 sign-ups. this is a numbers game, don't bother looking at my 44 users.

anyways, if BM makes true what he said in today's mumble there's no need to talk about referral program or earning money here anymore. since that will be dead

Can you explain please, I wasn't in the mumble and this sounds like something I want to hear.

there will be a proposal by him, basically nulling all fees except for trading fees.

sounds good at the beginning, but there's absolutely no need for regular users to upgrade their accounts. that makes 10 LT per 1000 to MAYBE 1 (an active trader) per 1000. there's no way a marketer can sustain at that level.

[mint chocolate chip]

I'd like to get a definitive answer.

Perhaps my goal is to make BitShares successful and indirectly I benefit. Besides, there's more to a business than just getting some referral income, which according to your numbers (so far at least) doesn't look sustainable as a profitable business, especially if you consider what it would cost to obtain a CNX license before you signed up 42 new users for a 2500 BTS reward.

And that is the secret to the success or failure of Bitshares. Developers have to create as many technical ways for us to make BitShares successful while allowing us to indirectly benefit. The more we can align the two the better the ecosystem will get.

The referral program is just the beginning of course. There is also the Brownie.PTS, the crowd funding opportunities, the potential bond market, the potential prediction market, so we have to basically bootstrap an industry and attract people to the community with mutually benefiting profit opportunities.

If his stats show 42 users / 2500 bts reward figures, then that means none of his referred users upgraded to annual/lifetime accounts, otherwise it would reflect a much higher reward.

currently it's ~10 LT per 1000 sign-ups. this is a numbers game, don't bother looking at my 44 users.

anyways, if BM makes true what he said in today's mumble there's no need to talk about referral program or earning money here anymore. since that will be dead

Can you explain please, I wasn't in the mumble and this sounds like something I want to hear.