Committee Proposal: Urgent call for help by the Chinese Community

[merivercap]

Ok.
I personally prefer not to have forced settlement because I think it's unnecessary even though we're going after merchants, but other people and businesses in the community may want it so I'll let them push for it.  I would rather experiment first without it.   Then again I might just find a way to use forced settlement to make money first... tough thing is it might just wipe out the few remaining shorts there are in the system.  We'll see.

BTW your gateway always has been pretty good at exchanging 1CNY for one bitCNY... I remember it was just one or two percent off all the time.. how do you run your gateway business with the spreads so low?   Do you just let others buy and sell to each other as a temporary custodian and when you need extra bitCNY you just create it and purchase it yourself?  Just curious.  Thx.

to disable it globally is also ok for me.

yes, that's what will happen, speculators, not merchants are most interested in the force settlement feature, shorters will be robbed, they shorted in 1.0 when they judge BTS is underestimated, but now they are not able to hold their collateral with sufficient collateral ratio, but will be forced to sell the collateral in such a the current low price, isn't it ridiculous?

transwiser provide redeem service for BTC38 and charge 0.3% for fee, in my view, a MPA showed be pegged perfectly and then the market will adopt it, I cannot imagine if BitCNY today worth 1.05 CNY tomorrow worth 1.1CNY, it really has price floor, but who would like to use it? based on this view, I normally keep the BitCNY price in transwiser at 1+-0.5%。and users are more convinced that BitCNY are pegged well.

Sounds good.  Yeah I agree.
Thanks for the info.  Good to know more about how your business works.  I also think users everywhere will be more convinced that bitAssets are pegged well at  1+-0.5%.  It's confusing and unbalanced any other way. 

[JonnyB]

This seems an awful lot like the traditional finance business. Big banks do irresponsible business, get in trouble and government has to save them because they are too big to fail.

I would rather see that Bitshares treated every business with same rules, whether they are small or big – no privileges to anybody. In the long run that is the best strategy because it is the only way to make sure that our blockchain is mostly used by competent businesses. More we have businesses with working business plans, more we get users and revenue. Bailing out incompetent businesses is not a good way to use our scarce resources.

I mentioned this too. Thing is at the moment we are too small not to give this businesses some flexibility. I'm not defending either options as I'm not yet comfortable enough to take a side. But atm BitShares is dependent on these businesses. This situation can have a strong effect on BitShares and it must be taken into consideration

Yes, this can be forgiven once, we are still so small that nobody cares. But when we start to grow this kind of action cannot happen again. All businesses have to be sure that we are not bailing out any bad businesses at the expence of others. Otherwise good businesses don't want to use our blockchain and we'll have only the bad ones.

Lol . Transwiser is the only legitimate proof that BitCNY is actually worth 1 CNY .
Without this kind of "bad business" to take risk to ensure a fine peg , no matter how you paint , no merchant in the world would use a crypto token that's suppose to be backed by another crypto token and they need to change their BTA to this weird looking token in order to get their fiat value . Telling them that their BTA is backed by this weird looking token but no one is willing to put up fiat 1:1 at anytime to buy it and they can only get their fiat value by selling this weird looking token on another exchange ...

Yeah , imagine that . tell your friends about this amazing price stable token , see how they react .

The only legitimate proof needed to demonstrate that 1 BitCNY is worth 1 CNY is the forced settlement feature at parity.
1 CNY is probably gonna be worth about 0.95 bitCNY but that is up to the market to decide not transwiser.

[btswildpig]

This seems an awful lot like the traditional finance business. Big banks do irresponsible business, get in trouble and government has to save them because they are too big to fail.

I would rather see that Bitshares treated every business with same rules, whether they are small or big – no privileges to anybody. In the long run that is the best strategy because it is the only way to make sure that our blockchain is mostly used by competent businesses. More we have businesses with working business plans, more we get users and revenue. Bailing out incompetent businesses is not a good way to use our scarce resources.

I mentioned this too. Thing is at the moment we are too small not to give this businesses some flexibility. I'm not defending either options as I'm not yet comfortable enough to take a side. But atm BitShares is dependent on these businesses. This situation can have a strong effect on BitShares and it must be taken into consideration

Yes, this can be forgiven once, we are still so small that nobody cares. But when we start to grow this kind of action cannot happen again. All businesses have to be sure that we are not bailing out any bad businesses at the expence of others. Otherwise good businesses don't want to use our blockchain and we'll have only the bad ones.

Lol . Transwiser is the only legitimate proof that BitCNY is actually worth 1 CNY .
Without this kind of "bad business" to take risk to ensure a fine peg , no matter how you paint , no merchant in the world would use a crypto token that's suppose to be backed by another crypto token and they need to change their BTA to this weird looking token in order to get their fiat value . Telling them that their BTA is backed by this weird looking token but no one is willing to put up fiat 1:1 at anytime to buy it and they can only get their fiat value by selling this weird looking token on another exchange ...

Yeah , imagine that . tell your friends about this amazing price stable token , see how they react . 

[wallace]

Actually , BitCNY holders can get a fair price anytime now at BTC38 .
I suspect BTC38 forget to update their English version page , the Chinese version page already says "it accepts no more than 50,000 BitCNY deposit every day directly turn into CNY balance on a 1:1 ratio  ."

It's a more fair price than what you would get in the DEX because the DEX would never give you 1:1 price considering you actually need to sell your BTS at a unfair spread to get the fiat value you need .

So maybe now you can understand how transwiser is providing a peg that merchants would actually use  , unlike the status with BitUSD .

Last time I check , no exchanges accepts BitUSD as deposit , most of them only provides a market place to trade with .

Thats good.  I'm glad to see it.  Does BTC38 also convert 1:1 CNY to bitCNY?  I bet not, and if they do, probably not for very long.

That should be profitable for BTC38 as bitCNY should always trade above par and they can make the difference.  Depending on the bitCNY=>BTS=>CNY conversion and liquidity as you mentioned.

I'd like to see some bitUSD=>USD 1:1 services , that's an easy trade for near guaranteed profits.  I've considered doing this myself on a very small scale but I don't want to mess with US regulation I don't fully understand. 

It would make more sense for an exchange to do it.  Perhaps we'll see this at CCEDK soon.

They sell all their BitCNY to transwiser 1:1  .

The Bitcny deposited to BTC38 is the same CNY which deposited to BTC38 from bank, so yes it's obviously 1:1, and this business model have been running for a long time.

this is the reason why bitcny have a lot of users in China and most of them not even have a BTS account.

BTS need this kind of real business model, not a talking business model.

[Akado]

This seems an awful lot like the traditional finance business. Big banks do irresponsible business, get in trouble and government has to save them because they are too big to fail.

I would rather see that Bitshares treated every business with same rules, whether they are small or big – no privileges to anybody. In the long run that is the best strategy because it is the only way to make sure that our blockchain is mostly used by competent businesses. More we have businesses with working business plans, more we get users and revenue. Bailing out incompetent businesses is not a good way to use our scarce resources.

I mentioned this too. Thing is at the moment we are too small not to give this businesses some flexibility. I'm not defending either options as I'm not yet comfortable enough to take a side. But atm BitShares is dependent on these businesses. This situation can have a strong effect on BitShares and it must be taken into consideration

Yes, this can be forgiven once, we are still so small that nobody cares. But when we start to grow this kind of action cannot happen again. All businesses have to be sure that we are not bailing out any bad businesses at the expence of others. Otherwise good businesses don't want to use our blockchain and we'll have only the bad ones.

Yes but different circumstances require different measures. At that time we will be big enough to stand on our own without depending on a single business.. or so I hope. At the moment we depend on other businesses to grow so it's not like we can just ignore them. We need then whether we like it or not

[tonyk]

Seriously, vote these clowns out of committee immediately.  This is embarrassing.

Whether the committee is a clown or you are putting yourself up as a clown is up to the bitshares' shareholders and community to decide.  I am confident the bitshares community at large (and except a few bitshares flaws exploiters who are failing in their attempts and are really really upset about it) is clear and supportive of the work the committee members are doing now.

The price feed can always use advancement.  It is not broken, and provides a feed generally within about 1%.  This is no cause for alarm.

The xeroc's price feed does not take CNY-price source from any of the China established sites such as OKCoin.  xeroc is working on fixing this.

I hope you do not include me in this wide accusation of yours! I do not posses enough bitCNY to even pay the  former 200 BTS fees for force settlement  and I find myself being one of the most aggravated with the ruthlessness of what is going on around here. Committee manipulations for personal gains, committee member voting based on number of posts on this forum instead of thinking for a second and so on. Just ridiculous.

[btswildpig]

Actually , BitCNY holders can get a fair price anytime now at BTC38 .
I suspect BTC38 forget to update their English version page , the Chinese version page already says "it accepts no more than 50,000 BitCNY deposit every day directly turn into CNY balance on a 1:1 ratio  ."

It's a more fair price than what you would get in the DEX because the DEX would never give you 1:1 price considering you actually need to sell your BTS at a unfair spread to get the fiat value you need .

So maybe now you can understand how transwiser is providing a peg that merchants would actually use  , unlike the status with BitUSD .

Last time I check , no exchanges accepts BitUSD as deposit , most of them only provides a market place to trade with .

Thats good.  I'm glad to see it.  Does BTC38 also convert 1:1 CNY to bitCNY?  I bet not, and if they do, probably not for very long.

That should be profitable for BTC38 as bitCNY should always trade above par and they can make the difference.  Depending on the bitCNY=>BTS=>CNY conversion and liquidity as you mentioned.

I'd like to see some bitUSD=>USD 1:1 services , that's an easy trade for near guaranteed profits.  I've considered doing this myself on a very small scale but I don't want to mess with US regulation I don't fully understand. 

It would make more sense for an exchange to do it.  Perhaps we'll see this at CCEDK soon.

They sell all their BitCNY to transwiser 1:1  .

[Samupaha]

This seems an awful lot like the traditional finance business. Big banks do irresponsible business, get in trouble and government has to save them because they are too big to fail.

I would rather see that Bitshares treated every business with same rules, whether they are small or big – no privileges to anybody. In the long run that is the best strategy because it is the only way to make sure that our blockchain is mostly used by competent businesses. More we have businesses with working business plans, more we get users and revenue. Bailing out incompetent businesses is not a good way to use our scarce resources.

I mentioned this too. Thing is at the moment we are too small not to give this businesses some flexibility. I'm not defending either options as I'm not yet comfortable enough to take a side. But atm BitShares is dependent on these businesses. This situation can have a strong effect on BitShares and it must be taken into consideration

Yes, this can be forgiven once, we are still so small that nobody cares. But when we start to grow this kind of action cannot happen again. All businesses have to be sure that we are not bailing out any bad businesses at the expence of others. Otherwise good businesses don't want to use our blockchain and we'll have only the bad ones.

[btswildpig]

I suspect BTC38 didn't update  the hint on their English Page . I've informed them . 
So you have tested that using google translation , foreign users can do this too ?

Not that good.... Having English page would be much better.

Translation :
将BITCNY转入到 btc38-cny-kuos-72722并在备注MEMO中填写 您的时代ID
即可完成充值，系统将在1分钟左右为您入账。
转账时，请核对钱包向您展示的头像和左侧图片一致，以免充错地址
Deposit your BItCNY to  btc38-cny-kuos-72722 and put your BTC38 ID as memo  (same operation when you deposit BTS, only different address ) .Your account will be credited within 1 minute . (Note, sometimes more than 1 minute ,depend on btc38)  .
http://www.btc38.com/trade/cnypay.html  please check this site yourself to get the correct deposit address , don't believe me or anyone else who post deposit address on the forum !!

单笔最多充值1万BITCNY，每天累计充值不超过5万BITCNY，超过部分将无法到账。
The system can handle no more than 50,000 BitCNY per day , with 10,000 BitCNY limit on each transaction . If your deposit exceeds the daily limit , the part that exceeds the limit will not be credited .

You guys can test it with small amount first .

[Xeldal]

Actually , BitCNY holders can get a fair price anytime now at BTC38 .
I suspect BTC38 forget to update their English version page , the Chinese version page already says "it accepts no more than 50,000 BitCNY deposit every day directly turn into CNY balance on a 1:1 ratio  ."

It's a more fair price than what you would get in the DEX because the DEX would never give you 1:1 price considering you actually need to sell your BTS at a unfair spread to get the fiat value you need .

So maybe now you can understand how transwiser is providing a peg that merchants would actually use  , unlike the status with BitUSD .

Last time I check , no exchanges accepts BitUSD as deposit , most of them only provides a market place to trade with .

Thats good.  I'm glad to see it.  Does BTC38 also convert 1:1 CNY to bitCNY?  I bet not, and if they do, probably not for very long.

That should be profitable for BTC38 as bitCNY should always trade above par and they can make the difference.  Depending on the bitCNY=>BTS=>CNY conversion and liquidity as you mentioned.

I'd like to see some bitUSD=>USD 1:1 services , that's an easy trade for near guaranteed profits.  I've considered doing this myself on a very small scale but I don't want to mess with US regulation I don't fully understand. 

It would make more sense for an exchange to do it.  Perhaps we'll see this at CCEDK soon.

[Akado]

It is important to fix the flaw in the bitshares system now because:

1) Our major partner and only bitCNY<-> CNY provider Transwiser will suffer losses and may be forced to cease this service.  Stopping this crucial service is against the interest of the Bitshares DAC.

2) Stopping the opportunist users to exploit the flaws in the bitshares system and gain at the expense of our major partner.  If we allow the opportunistic exploits to happen, words will spread.  Other potential business partners will lose confidence and trust in doing business with the Bishares DAC. This is certainly against Bitshares's interest.

This seems an awful lot like the traditional finance business. Big banks do irresponsible business, get in trouble and government has to save them because they are too big to fail.

I would rather see that Bitshares treated every business with same rules, whether they are small or big – no privileges to anybody. In the long run that is the best strategy because it is the only way to make sure that our blockchain is mostly used by competent businesses. More we have businesses with working business plans, more we get users and revenue. Bailing out incompetent businesses is not a good way to use our scarce resources.

I mentioned this too. Thing is at the moment we are too small not to give this businesses some flexibility. I'm not defending either options as I'm not yet comfortable enough to take a side. But atm BitShares is dependent on these businesses. This situation can have a strong effect on BitShares and it must be taken into consideration


Could someone tell me what happened with the committee member? One single member changed this? Who was it and how did it happen? Was it because he had too many votes?

[Samupaha]

It is important to fix the flaw in the bitshares system now because:

1) Our major partner and only bitCNY<-> CNY provider Transwiser will suffer losses and may be forced to cease this service.  Stopping this crucial service is against the interest of the Bitshares DAC.

2) Stopping the opportunist users to exploit the flaws in the bitshares system and gain at the expense of our major partner.  If we allow the opportunistic exploits to happen, words will spread.  Other potential business partners will lose confidence and trust in doing business with the Bishares DAC. This is certainly against Bitshares's interest.

This seems an awful lot like the traditional finance business. Big banks do irresponsible business, get in trouble and government has to save them because they are too big to fail.

I would rather see that Bitshares treated every business with same rules, whether they are small or big – no privileges to anybody. In the long run that is the best strategy because it is the only way to make sure that our blockchain is mostly used by competent businesses. More we have businesses with working business plans, more we get users and revenue. Bailing out incompetent businesses is not a good way to use our scarce resources.

[clayop]

I suspect BTC38 didn't update  the hint on their English Page . I've informed them . 
So you have tested that using google translation , foreign users can do this too ?

Not that good.... Having English page would be much better.

[cube]

Seriously, vote these clowns out of committee immediately.  This is embarrassing.

Whether the committee is a clown or you are putting yourself up as a clown is up to the bitshares' shareholders and community to decide.  I am confident the bitshares community at large (and except a few bitshares flaws exploiters who are failing in their attempts and are really really upset about it) is clear and supportive of the work the committee members are doing now.

The price feed can always use advancement.  It is not broken, and provides a feed generally within about 1%.  This is no cause for alarm.

The xeroc's price feed does not take CNY-price source from any of the China established sites such as OKCoin.  xeroc is working on fixing this. 

[btswildpig]

So we are changing the rules because someone running business around BitShares was ignorant about those rules.
The only excuse that can be offered is lack of proper documentation for BitShares 2.0 - @bytemaster

I thank the community for contributing valuable feedback.  However, I think the on-going debate has distracted the community from the objective of the proposal, which is:

A temporary suspension (estimated about a week or so) to fix the following:

1) The current price feed script does not take into consideration of CNY fiat prices from China mainly established websites eg OKCoin. Feed price for CNY is lower than the actual figure and this causes an artifical arbitrage opportunity. The author of the scipt, xeroc will be making a fix to the price feed script available soon. abit's idea may help in getting the fix up sooner.

2) A bot is needed to be created to provide bitCNY buy order positions such that the bid are higher or equal to the 'corrected' feed price. bitcrab needs to provide the fund and technical skill to create this bot.

3) Provide a frontend fix with displaying "settlement" button only when there are buy orders available above the price feed.   Svk is working on the fix.

It is important to fix the flaw in the bitshares system now because:

1) Our major partner and only bitCNY<-> CNY provider Transwiser will suffer losses and may be forced to cease this service.  Stopping this crucial service is against the interest of the Bitshares DAC.

2) Stopping the opportunist users to exploit the flaws in the bitshares system and gain at the expense of our major partner.  If we allow the opportunistic exploits to happen, words will spread.  Other potential business partners will lose confidence and trust in doing business with the Bishares DAC. This is certainly against Bitshares's interest.

Sure...in the meantime while this temporally measures are going on... can transwise put a say 20,000 CNY buy bitCNY order at what they consider "market price"?

You can deposit 50,000 BitCNY to BTC38 per day  (10,000 max per transaction , so you'll need 2 transactions to get 20,000 CNY in BTC38 .  )
Then you can do whatever you want with the 20,000 CNY balance in your BTC38 account, buy BTS, buy BTC ....

btc38 have not opened this feature for the non Chinese customers (last check 12h ago)

edit: yep..not activated yet!

Use Chinese page and google translation. I think you're smart enough to do it.

I suspect BTC38 didn't update  the hint on their English Page . I've informed them . 
So you have tested that using google translation , foreign users can do this too ?