Mutual Aid Societies

[Empirical1.2]

Who again said this shouldn't be high priority?
I am asking because slock.it (built on Ethereum) is now partnering with an insurance company:
https://blog.slock.it/partnering-with-safeshare-to-create-the-ad-hoc-insurance-of-the-sharing-economy-77462163ab91

MAS was attempting to disintermediate the highly specialized services of a centralized insurance company (Pricing, claim validation and fraud prevention and investigation.) and it seems unlikely a decentralized community would be able to offer a better/cheaper/faster service. The MAS also seemed to be suggesting/offering insurance products it is fairly easy to get traditional insurance for.

Slock.it maintains the highly specialized services of a centralized insurance company.

It's USP is bridging the gap between private and commercial insurance policies to target the rapidly expanding sharing economy and  leverages the blockchain as - an immutable database of booking/rental events - to streamline and simplify the charging & claim process. 

So at first glance Slock.it seems quite promising & is very different to the MAS imo.

[xeroc]

Who again said this shouldn't be high priority?
I am asking because slock.it (built on Ethereum) is now partnering with an insurance company:
https://blog.slock.it/partnering-with-safeshare-to-create-the-ad-hoc-insurance-of-the-sharing-economy-77462163ab91

[Empirical1.2]

I think he meant health SHARING system...

https://mychristiancare.org/how_does_it_work.aspx

Liberty Health Share...

Costs are lower than insurance *AND* you get a more personal interaction with the community.

It doesn't jump out to me as a 'This needs to be a decentralized blockchain based business.'

I think claim validation, fraud prevention and investigation is a pretty professional/specialized discipline and I doubt a decentralized community could do the work for much less/faster/better customer service.

As you stated recently, because there are more trusted, fast, legal exchanges these days, the DEX is having to compete on price.
(Yet the development and running costs for the DEX are higher & customer service is weaker) 

BitShares was originally created out of a desire to solve a problem that Bitcoin faced (exchange with fiat) under the presumption that the governments would eventually shutdown the exchanges like they did egold and liberty dollar. With each day that passes it seems less and less likely...

We are put in a situation of competing head-to-head with centralized exchanges which are trusted, fast, and legal. 

It seems like the MAS may also be competing head-head with centralized options which are trusted, fast and legal.

Imo a product or service that benefits from privacy, transparency, may be restricted in certain jurisdictions and can be mostly coded are the ones that would benefit from being decentralized businesses. (So crypto-currency, smart-coins, largely code-able private financial products and services, gambling, dark markets, data sharing etc.)

 

[BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode]

, great, good idea, i like it, just do it!

Is this spam?

I'm fairly sure that's the only phrase that user ever posts.

Haha.. it is.. and I always get a chuckle.. I love his posts. 

[monsterer]

, great, good idea, i like it, just do it!

Is this spam?

I'm fairly sure that's the only phrase that user ever posts.

[chryspano]

, great, good idea, i like it, just do it!

Is this spam?

[Musewhale]

, great, good idea, i like it, just do it!

[betax]

In an insurance perspective, any ideas how the claims going to be handled / recorded? Who verifies that the claims are valid? At the end of the day this is a mutual insurance.

Any ideas to start with a simpler model simple like life insurance? Obviously whilst simple, we won't have any claims (I hope so, for a long time) so difficult to test in real life.

Are planning to have witnesses that verify a claim / incident registry? I guess if public records can easily extracted for certain terms for the use cases described, this will be an easy task for witnesses.

How are we going to disclosed/match identities?  This will be required to validate claims and prevent fraud for repeated claims.

Overall great experiment

PS: Maybe there is a different model, so I might be barking from the wrong tree.

[bytemaster]

I think he meant health SHARING system...

https://mychristiancare.org/how_does_it_work.aspx

Liberty Health Share...

Costs are lower than insurance *AND* you get a more personal interaction with the community.

[Empirical1.2]

Same reason people use health sharing instead of health insurance.

Same reason to use a Health Saving Account

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_savings_account

OK, thanks for some reason I thought the risks mentioned in the OP were not easily insurable hence the USP/need for a blockchain MAS.

 

[Pheonike]

Under this system individuals can only receive benefits if they are a victim, produce verifiable evidence, and have the support of a large number of independent users who individually transfer funds from user to user.

I would start this system for five classes of users:

1. Those who are accused of possessing illegal substances but have not actually harmed anyone
2. Those who are accused of traffic violations for behavior that did not harm anyone
3. Those who are accused of copyright violation
4. Those who are accused of participating in prostitution that did not harm anyone and where no children are involved.   
5. Those who have their assets seized   

In all cases we presume innocence and believe that the accused deserve a fair defense.

This is a unique product that could easily be codified in smart contracts and provide real world utility that does not exist elsewhere.   

This is also a controversial product that would generate a lot of media attention and attract people who might not otherwise care about crypto currency.

I've seen that there a variety of legal insurance products on the market. Would it not be possible to insure yourself against these risks using some form of traditional legal insurance?

Company markets 'first criminal legal insurance policy'

An annual premium of £29.99, the policy provides up to £20,000 worth of cover...

The policy covers all offences triable in the Crown court, either way or indictable only. It excludes anyone with previous convictions or who has been prosecuted for a criminal offence in the past 10 years.

http://www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/company-markets-first-criminal-legal-insurance-policy/66356.fullarticle

If so, why would someone choose to use a MAS?

Same reason to use a Health Saving Account

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_savings_account

[sittingduck]

 Same reason people use health sharing instead of health insurance.

[Empirical1.2]

Under this system individuals can only receive benefits if they are a victim, produce verifiable evidence, and have the support of a large number of independent users who individually transfer funds from user to user.

I would start this system for five classes of users:

1. Those who are accused of possessing illegal substances but have not actually harmed anyone
2. Those who are accused of traffic violations for behavior that did not harm anyone
3. Those who are accused of copyright violation
4. Those who are accused of participating in prostitution that did not harm anyone and where no children are involved.   
5. Those who have their assets seized   

In all cases we presume innocence and believe that the accused deserve a fair defense.

This is a unique product that could easily be codified in smart contracts and provide real world utility that does not exist elsewhere.   

This is also a controversial product that would generate a lot of media attention and attract people who might not otherwise care about crypto currency.

I've seen that there a variety of legal insurance products on the market. Would it not be possible to insure yourself against these risks using some form of traditional legal insurance?

Company markets 'first criminal legal insurance policy'

An annual premium of £29.99, the policy provides up to £20,000 worth of cover...

The policy covers all offences triable in the Crown court, either way or indictable only. It excludes anyone with previous convictions or who has been prosecuted for a criminal offence in the past 10 years.

http://www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/company-markets-first-criminal-legal-insurance-policy/66356.fullarticle

If so, why would someone choose to use a MAS?

[jamesc]

If watching Gene Sharp is too boring for you, here is some excitement from a guy who will recommend the book and also remind you "you have to do your homework"

Revolution: An Instruction Manual
https://youtu.be/8Zq4f6WYmHU?t=11m58s

[jamesc]

I will be happy to put both money and skin in the game.

You can debate the drunk driving thing till the end of time.  In the end though, remember alcohol is the byproduct of fermentation.  We ferment food for probiotics and to preserve them.  The body can tolerate it but it is really toxic and therefore undesirable.  Consider that over-drinking could easily be a bi-product of our broken humanity.  Don't chase symptoms, go to the root of the problem.

I can't endorse this video in its entirety (though I am giving you the link -  ...  This is a little something that got me going though and I see the ideas tossed around on social media so I know I'm not the only one that watched it.  I like the logic here, it get me thinking.   This may be offensive... 

Statism: The Most Dangerous Religion (feat. Larken Rose)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6uVV2Dcqt0

Now, what is civil disobedience and should or how should we use it?  Some of you get it!!  I'm in the right place...  I have a book, but no one reads a book just because.  So here is a video about the book.  It is already giving me goose bumps.  So, this is the most down-to-earth awesome experience I have ever had.  It changes everything.   The book is in the public domain and an the English reading of the book is on YouTube.  I put the mp3 on my phone so I can give it to my friends or review.  Please enjoy!!!
 
The Power and Potential of Nonviolent Struggle by Gene Sharp
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQV_4-rXXrE