Author Topic: BitShares Reform: Solving its Identity Crisis and Establishing a Brand.  (Read 15166 times)

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Offline yvv

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Offline Geneko

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Let us try for ones to resolve at least one issue. Regarding OP headline what we need is disciplined thought in order to find out possible solutions.  What I am trying to do is exactly that, b/c my knowledge of technology is very limited.

As I said Bitshares is a internal combustion engine (ICE). As such it is meaningless. What does this thing do? Nothing except providing torque and making noise. It could be used for building horseless carriage or for building flying machine as Wright Brothers did, but somebody else needs to chase that dream.  So we compete in market of ICE meant for enthusiastic dream chasers. Lets see how we stand there.

BitShares offers an ecosystem with low economic friction in which businesses offering new products and services can thrive.  We need to market our platform services to businesses who in turn market their products and services to specific consumers. 


Bitshares is the Linux of Finance.

Is it so, and are we the only viable option? I think not. Reading further discussion I find out this:
We are in the same market as Ethereum except the fact that they are offering their ICE for free with simple set of tools for customizing own solutions. Our is faster, more reliable, more stable....how about more user friendly, etc..?
In order to have solution by Bitshares you need CNX to customize your solution and you have to pay royalties, fees, etc... at least it is perceived like that. So for anybody who is trying to build that horseless carriage Ethereum seams like obvious choice. Current market price is reflecting that fact. Ethereum is maybe a gallon per mile machine but who cares. What people need is fulfillment of a dream, leather we could talk about efficiency.  As somebody pointed out, it is up to CNX business to struggle with that fact.

Let me rephrase the question. What is horseless carriage or flying machine where our ICE is only viable option? Second, whose dream is to build one? Third does it comply with laws of physics. Financial freedom and today state own money and taxes  doesn't comply each other.
It needs to be specific.
EMPOWERing INDIVIDUALS AND PROVIDEing FINANCIAL FREEDOM TO FINANCIAL MARKETS is specific as pointing out to clear night sky in chasing alien life in universe.

Offline xeroc

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BitShares is more like Apple, we've invented the "mouse" (read: dex) and have the GUI running smoothly (with 3 seconds blocks) and a bunch of other potential apps already running on our (RISC) CPU ..

Nope. Xerox came up with the first 'mouse'.  Bitshares is more like the early versions of Microsoft.
Oh .. wasn't sure about the mouse thing .. thanks for the info!

Offline cube

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BitShares is more like Apple, we've invented the "mouse" (read: dex) and have the GUI running smoothly (with 3 seconds blocks) and a bunch of other potential apps already running on our (RISC) CPU ..

Nope. Xerox came up with the first 'mouse'.  Bitshares is more like the early versions of Microsoft.
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Offline xeroc

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Bitshares is the Linux of Finance. Powering the Fin-Tech technologies of tomorrow. Giving investors and entrepreneurs alike a new way to achieve their financial initiatives and investment goals without the hassles of yesterday's banking technologies. Now creating assets, trading, banking and other activities can be achieved... etc etc

Key here is the first two sentences. My take as an entrepreneur. Lets not try to market like everyone else. Lets be ourself. Just my two $ense.
Actually ... Ethereum compares better to Linux .. as it offers a "Kernel" to deploy user-space applications

BitShares is more like Apple, we've invented the "mouse" (read: dex) and have the GUI running smoothly (with 3 seconds blocks) and a bunch of other potential apps already running on our (RISC) CPU ..

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What horde of businesses are beating down the doors at CNX to help them implement their very own version of the blockchain? Like I said I can imagine there may be a business opportunity in that space but I don't see it as a sure thing. The current track record seems to indicate the opposite.

Actually, you might be surprised.  :)

...if I'm actually surprised, that'd be surprising. Here's to hoping a nice surprise awaits us I guess. We're overdue for a nice surprise.

Am I the only one noticing the subtle hint at something huge here? Or am I reading too far into Stan's vague wordplay? ???

This is typical Stan - don't stare too long at his words or you may fall into a trance. Your words indicate a healthy skepticism, yet also indicate you're hopeful for the positive outcome Stan infers but fails to provide solid evidence of. If it's real it will happen. If not this is just positive hope hype. Time will tell, b/c Stan may not be able to yet.

He said nothing about this actually benefiting Bitshares directly. It was a comment about 3rd part beating down the door to CNX.  I stopped hoping for for secret sauce since the day of B.Page. If CNX is able to remain profitable from contracts outside of core Bitshares, good for them.

Offline Thom

What horde of businesses are beating down the doors at CNX to help them implement their very own version of the blockchain? Like I said I can imagine there may be a business opportunity in that space but I don't see it as a sure thing. The current track record seems to indicate the opposite.

Actually, you might be surprised.  :)

...if I'm actually surprised, that'd be surprising. Here's to hoping a nice surprise awaits us I guess. We're overdue for a nice surprise.

Am I the only one noticing the subtle hint at something huge here? Or am I reading too far into Stan's vague wordplay? ???

This is typical Stan - don't stare too long at his words or you may fall into a trance. Your words indicate a healthy skepticism, yet also indicate you're hopeful for the positive outcome Stan infers but fails to provide solid evidence of. If it's real it will happen. If not this is just positive hope hype. Time will tell, b/c Stan may not be able to yet.
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere - MLK |  Verbaltech2 Witness Reports: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,23902.0.html

Offline Thom

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-Thom  Sorry you didn't connect the dots there... it was an attempt to educate you on what the landscape of business means today... we are in a new paradigm shift and Bitshares is poised to catch the wave. That study not only debunks a lot of bad steriotypes, but it also identified that the future sees more and more BUSINESSES coming into being. From what you write you seem to equate this only to CORPORATIONS. I said businesses.. that means anybody with a dream and the gumption to create something. Where do all those BUSINESS in crypto go today? Right now seems they are going to Ethereum... they have the messaging of 'build on our platform' pretty clear.. never mind the semantics of turing complete or whatever.. they will go where they are welcome and they believe their dreams will grow.

Click - thanks, @DSN, that did it. You're right, I was thinking big monopolistic behemith corps. Empowering the individual through small business is indeed right on the mark. I get the connection now.
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere - MLK |  Verbaltech2 Witness Reports: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,23902.0.html

Offline nomoreheroes7

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What horde of businesses are beating down the doors at CNX to help them implement their very own version of the blockchain? Like I said I can imagine there may be a business opportunity in that space but I don't see it as a sure thing. The current track record seems to indicate the opposite.

Actually, you might be surprised.  :)

...if I'm actually surprised, that'd be surprising. Here's to hoping a nice surprise awaits us I guess. We're overdue for a nice surprise.

Am I the only one noticing the subtle hint at something huge here? Or am I reading too far into Stan's vague wordplay? ???

Offline liondani

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Offline cube

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Bitshares needs to attract 2 types of people. Investors and Users

Investors
We need to attract people who like me saw BTS as a good investment. Not day traders trying to make a quick buck.
We need them to increase the price of BTS market cap which benefits all aspects of the bitshares system.

Users
These are people who want to use the exchange but not necessarily buy BTS. This will grow our network effect and therefore our marketcap.
I would say there are 2 types of users.
1. Asset creators like Maker or BANX who want their asset as a native BTS token. (the most important and hugely positive for network effect)
2. Traders

Well said.  In addition to the two types of people above, I think bts needs one more :-

Investors in CNX
1)  bts needs to be maintained - bugs to be fixed, features to be implemented eg sidechains, magin trading.  An external source of funding is much needed.
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Offline JonnyB

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Bitshares needs to attract 2 types of people. Investors and Users

Investors
We need to attract people who like me saw BTS as a good investment. Not day traders trying to make a quick buck.
We need them to increase the price of BTS market cap which benefits all aspects of the bitshares system.

Users
These are people who want to use the exchange but not necessarily buy BTS. This will grow our network effect and therefore our marketcap.
I would say there are 2 types of users.
1. Asset creators like Maker or BANX who want their asset as a native BTS token. (the most important and hugely positive for network effect)
2. Traders
I run the @bitshares twitter handle
twitter.com/bitshares

Offline BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode

Numerous times such discussion starts with good point and then dissolves in brainstorming fashion.

One thing is obvious from the very beginning, this project lacks clear objective.
It is problem of a leadership. I have to admit that BM critics have proved its point.

Good leader would know one thing. He must become entrepreneur first. With all possibilities he might dream of he need at least one practical thing that is working to prove his point. To himself and to others. In such a way he build his momentum, his self confidence and his courage to persist in chasing his dreams no matter what. Henry Ford has dreamed about horseless carriage. Then he put all his knowledge and talent in to building one. It took him two years for finishing his first working prototype. With money and credibility he earned he build Ford Motor Company.
I think our problem is that Bitshare is internal combustion engine for BMs horseless carriage. Although critical component, without it horseless carriage surely couldn't exist as such, it is not a point of a dream. So what is our horseless carriage. Is it decentralized exchange for Bishares. It may be.

All things that we enjoy in our modern life, from electricity that drives it to this very forum, was ones a dream in someones head.
Difference is that someone put it for people to see, feel and enjoy benefits of using it.

The DEX is horseless carriage... it was perhaps a few months ago during a hangout that BM did bring up that the original goal of bitshares.. like the VERY beginning it was created.. was in response to MtGOX... they wanted to create a decentralized exchange where nobody would have to ever worry again about that happening. Back then it was also believed that bitcoin would never be regulated.. and therefore it would be open to such messes like that happening all the time.

He then went on to talk about how since then it is not as much of a concern now as it used to be. The government regulating bitcoin was unexpected.. and therefore now causes exchanges to be more accountable and having to follow certain government oversight.

So to continue with your comparison.. it is as though they set out to create the horseless carriage.. and came up with one about 10 years to late. Not quite the right fit comparison.. but you get the idea... certain assumptions that were made from the beginning turned out to go in another direction.

So fast forward to today and you see people wondering why people are not swarming to the DEX.. we call it an identiy crisis because where we began now while it does have a unique value proposition.. the pain that we were originally designed to solve is no longer present due to the market changes. The gains we offer are not high on the priorities of that customer segment.. but the task of trading that the exchange accomplishes it does it well.

So where does that leave us now? He tried to suggest i the same hangout that at potential target market we should look at might be freedom lovers as a niche that might be responsive to having an open ledger.

What I think  now is we have a DEX.. and yes.. there are other markets that can be served by it.. however I think bitshares overall future is really as a business blockchain platform.

The DEX can serve as a hub for settlements and currency exchange.

Businesses can build their smart contracts on Bitshares and get all the benefits the DEX has to offer in powering those contracts.

So when it comes to identifying what Bitshares is.. it is clear to me that we have product that is a DEX... that serves as a great DEMO of just one thing that can run on the bitshares blockchain.

What we need now is for those who are traders and those wanting to focus in that space to do so.

For the rest of what bitshares has to offer.. I would say we need to start identifying the most obvious verticals that will serve specific businesses and get those businesses building their apps on Bitshares.

Anyways.. my  +5% :)

Regards the DEX, as it doesn't allow people to deposit/withdraw alts 1-1 it hasn't really had the opportunity to compete with a CEX. As a platform due to the nature of crypto/open source, many features such as speed/other will be fairly indistinguishable to people outside crypto from one platform (NXT/BTS) to another, so it would come down to which platform is marketed the best, we can all agree BTS is not/unlikely to be the strongest in the room in terms of marketing.

Imo the horseless carriage is and has always been BitAssets and they've been designed at a time when horses (the banks) are about to be wiped out by the plague. The question is whether we can be the Henry Ford of Crypto and package them in such a way as they're accessible & attractive to millions of people.

Personally I think BTS is on the cusp of greatness, by making BitAssets attractive through offering yield and a $0.99-$1.01 range. (All self funding during the multi year growth/adoption phase of BitAssets.)

By focusing on that first you'll gain utility as merchants & businesses will want to serve that market and potentially be based on your platform to do it or even to use BitAssets themselves.


No.. I disagree.. the original vision was the DEX... the Assets were simply a part of that invention.. the crank-arm in the engine if you will. They were created out of the necessity to have tradeable assets that were collateralize instead of IOUs like everyone else... again attempting to create the vision of a decentralized exchange everyone could count on.

If consequentially an invention out of the original intent should take off as the bigger deal then so be it.. but in answer to the original quote I quoted.. it's certainly the DEX. However.. look at Bitcoin and blockchain... bitcoin was certainly satoshis horseless carriage.. but the invention out of that.. the blockchain has become far bigger than that.

Imagine what Henry Ford would think if you told him about horseless AND driverless carriages. :) Cue the Stan:

Think BIGGER Pinky!

@Thom  Sorry you didn't connect the dots there... it was an attempt to educate you on what the landscape of business means today... we are in a new paradigm shift and Bitshares is poised to catch the wave. That study not only debunks a lot of bad steriotypes, but it also identified that the future sees more and more BUSINESSES coming into being. From what you write you seem to equate this only to CORPORATIONS. I said businesses.. that means anybody with a dream and the gumption to create something. Where do all those BUSINESS in crypto go today? Right now seems they are going to Ethereum... they have the messaging of 'build on our platform' pretty clear.. never mind the semantics of turing complete or whatever.. they will go where they are welcome and they believe their dreams will grow.

Look at Rune... he didn't build MAKER on Bitshares.. they choose to build it on Ethereum... but when it came time for him to have a tradeable asset... who was it he came to?

All I am saying.. imagine if he had just built on Bitshares to begin with and could of had the entire Assets and DEX ecosystem to plug into his solution.... then he wouldn't have to deal with all the ethereum limitations when he becomes wildly successful.. think about that value proposition for so many other verticals.

Our value proposition as a blockchain business building platform in the new business world we have emerging today is MASSIVE... and if we can make that our clear messaging and understand that is what we are 'now'.. we could own the space and become the defacto for 3rd generation blockchain operations... then IBM and the hyperledger buddies will be looking to adopt to us instead of the other way around. While that sounds far fetched in our current iteration of identity and messaging.. it is possible with the right change.

Bitshares is a Blockchain Business Platform for the Win!

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Offline Empirical1.2

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Numerous times such discussion starts with good point and then dissolves in brainstorming fashion.

One thing is obvious from the very beginning, this project lacks clear objective.
It is problem of a leadership. I have to admit that BM critics have proved its point.

Good leader would know one thing. He must become entrepreneur first. With all possibilities he might dream of he need at least one practical thing that is working to prove his point. To himself and to others. In such a way he build his momentum, his self confidence and his courage to persist in chasing his dreams no matter what. Henry Ford has dreamed about horseless carriage. Then he put all his knowledge and talent in to building one. It took him two years for finishing his first working prototype. With money and credibility he earned he build Ford Motor Company.
I think our problem is that Bitshare is internal combustion engine for BMs horseless carriage. Although critical component, without it horseless carriage surely couldn't exist as such, it is not a point of a dream. So what is our horseless carriage. Is it decentralized exchange for Bishares. It may be.

All things that we enjoy in our modern life, from electricity that drives it to this very forum, was ones a dream in someones head.
Difference is that someone put it for people to see, feel and enjoy benefits of using it.

The DEX is horseless carriage... it was perhaps a few months ago during a hangout that BM did bring up that the original goal of bitshares.. like the VERY beginning it was created.. was in response to MtGOX... they wanted to create a decentralized exchange where nobody would have to ever worry again about that happening. Back then it was also believed that bitcoin would never be regulated.. and therefore it would be open to such messes like that happening all the time.

He then went on to talk about how since then it is not as much of a concern now as it used to be. The government regulating bitcoin was unexpected.. and therefore now causes exchanges to be more accountable and having to follow certain government oversight.

So to continue with your comparison.. it is as though they set out to create the horseless carriage.. and came up with one about 10 years to late. Not quite the right fit comparison.. but you get the idea... certain assumptions that were made from the beginning turned out to go in another direction.

So fast forward to today and you see people wondering why people are not swarming to the DEX.. we call it an identiy crisis because where we began now while it does have a unique value proposition.. the pain that we were originally designed to solve is no longer present due to the market changes. The gains we offer are not high on the priorities of that customer segment.. but the task of trading that the exchange accomplishes it does it well.

So where does that leave us now? He tried to suggest i the same hangout that at potential target market we should look at might be freedom lovers as a niche that might be responsive to having an open ledger.

What I think  now is we have a DEX.. and yes.. there are other markets that can be served by it.. however I think bitshares overall future is really as a business blockchain platform.

The DEX can serve as a hub for settlements and currency exchange.

Businesses can build their smart contracts on Bitshares and get all the benefits the DEX has to offer in powering those contracts.

So when it comes to identifying what Bitshares is.. it is clear to me that we have product that is a DEX... that serves as a great DEMO of just one thing that can run on the bitshares blockchain.

What we need now is for those who are traders and those wanting to focus in that space to do so.

For the rest of what bitshares has to offer.. I would say we need to start identifying the most obvious verticals that will serve specific businesses and get those businesses building their apps on Bitshares.

Anyways.. my  +5% :)

Regards the DEX, as it doesn't allow people to deposit/withdraw alts 1-1 it hasn't really had the opportunity to compete with a CEX. As a platform due to the nature of crypto/open source, many features such as speed/other will be fairly indistinguishable to people outside crypto from one platform (NXT/BTS) to another, so it would come down to which platform is marketed the best, we can all agree BTS is not/unlikely to be the strongest in the room in terms of marketing.

Imo the horseless carriage is and has always been BitAssets and they've been designed at a time when horses (the banks) are about to be wiped out by the plague. The question is whether we can be the Henry Ford of Crypto and package them in such a way as they're accessible & attractive to millions of people.

Personally I think BTS is on the cusp of greatness, by making BitAssets attractive through offering yield and a $0.99-$1.01 range. (All self funding during the multi year growth/adoption phase of BitAssets.)

By focusing on that first you'll gain utility as merchants & businesses will want to serve that market and potentially be based on your platform to do it or even to use BitAssets themselves.



« Last Edit: March 05, 2016, 08:32:33 am by Empirical1.2 »
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Offline SolomonSollarsNSense

Numerous times such discussion starts with good point and then dissolves in brainstorming fashion.

One thing is obvious from the very beginning, this project lacks clear objective.
It is problem of a leadership. I have to admit that BM critics have proved its point.

Good leader would know one thing. He must become entrepreneur first. With all possibilities he might dream of he need at least one practical thing that is working to prove his point. To himself and to others. In such a way he build his momentum, his self confidence and his courage to persist in chasing his dreams no matter what. Henry Ford has dreamed about horseless carriage. Then he put all his knowledge and talent in to building one. It took him two years for finishing his first working prototype. With money and credibility he earned he build Ford Motor Company.
I think our problem is that Bitshare is internal combustion engine for BMs horseless carriage. Although critical component, without it horseless carriage surely couldn't exist as such, it is not a point of a dream. So what is our horseless carriage. Is it decentralized exchange for Bishares. It may be.

All things that we enjoy in our modern life, from electricity that drives it to this very forum, was ones a dream in someones head.
Difference is that someone put it for people to see, feel and enjoy benefits of using it.

The DEX is horseless carriage... it was perhaps a few months ago during a hangout that BM did bring up that the original goal of bitshares.. like the VERY beginning it was created.. was in response to MtGOX... they wanted to create a decentralized exchange where nobody would have to ever worry again about that happening. Back then it was also believed that bitcoin would never be regulated.. and therefore it would be open to such messes like that happening all the time.

He then went on to talk about how since then it is not as much of a concern now as it used to be. The government regulating bitcoin was unexpected.. and therefore now causes exchanges to be more accountable and having to follow certain government oversight.

So to continue with your comparison.. it is as though they set out to create the horseless carriage.. and came up with one about 10 years to late. Not quite the right fit comparison.. but you get the idea... certain assumptions that were made from the beginning turned out to go in another direction.

So fast forward to today and you see people wondering why people are not swarming to the DEX.. we call it an identiy crisis because where we began now while it does have a unique value proposition.. the pain that we were originally designed to solve is no longer present due to the market changes. The gains we offer are not high on the priorities of that customer segment.. but the task of trading that the exchange accomplishes it does it well.

So where does that leave us now? He tried to suggest i the same hangout that at potential target market we should look at might be freedom lovers as a niche that might be responsive to having an open ledger.

What I think  now is we have a DEX.. and yes.. there are other markets that can be served by it.. however I think bitshares overall future is really as a business blockchain platform.

The DEX can serve as a hub for settlements and currency exchange.

Businesses can build their smart contracts on Bitshares and get all the benefits the DEX has to offer in powering those contracts.

So when it comes to identifying what Bitshares is.. it is clear to me that we have product that is a DEX... that serves as a great DEMO of just one thing that can run on the bitshares blockchain.

What we need now is for those who are traders and those wanting to focus in that space to do so.

For the rest of what bitshares has to offer.. I would say we need to start identifying the most obvious verticals that will serve specific businesses and get those businesses building their apps on Bitshares.

Anyways.. my  +5% :)

Yes.  I made the same case at the Shanghai Blockchain Summit last fall and even in the original concept of a SuperDAC.  A DEX is a really good thing to have as part of the infrastructure of a digital business platform.  Like a bank as one of the anchor stores in a shopping mall.  BitShares offers an ecosystem with low economic friction in which businesses offering new products and services can thrive.  We need to market our platform services to businesses who in turn market their products and services to specific consumers.

All of this ^^^^^^^^^  +5% That is exactly what I am doing. It is up to us now to take this technology to the appropriate demographics with the appropriate platform that utilizes it.
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