Does Openledger make Bitshares no decentralized anymore?

[severo]

Yes I know. sidechains is useful for transfers between blockchains, but not between fiat and blockchain, at least until the banks have our money in blockchains.

[JonnyB]

@erizo

The solution you crave is called sidechains. It's a concept thats been around a few years where you move BTC on to another chain.

Theres been alot of money and work directed at this approach and it may work one day.

Read all about it here: http://www.drivechain.info/

[moinyoin]

The absolute dependence of centralized suppliers for the acquisition of currencies is the biggest problem of the crypto ecosystem. From time to time news like these shout that the king is naked. What percentage of bts trade depends on the next Chinese ban?

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-09-08/bitcoin-crashes-massive-volume-china-plans-shut-local-exchanges

could add a link to bitsquare/bisq for fiat based transfers maybe then.

[severo]

The absolute dependence of centralized suppliers for the acquisition of currencies is the biggest problem of the crypto ecosystem. From time to time news like these shout that the king is naked. What percentage of bts trade depends on the next Chinese ban?

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-09-08/bitcoin-crashes-massive-volume-china-plans-shut-local-exchanges

[moinyoin]

Yes, Atomic Swaps would allow to transfer BTC to Bitshares DEX bitBTC without third party UIAs. It would be great progress, but there is still the problem on the FIAT side. My proposal is to use gateways but with P2P exchanges, not with third parties.

see lower in github discussion, to where there can be new backed assets

1. witnesses handle multisig account backing it
2. paper linked there can allow rotation of witnesses by changing the key of each witness needed to create secret

Then it would be simple enforced 1:1 backed asset enforced via decentralized witnesses. Doesn't rely on people shorting bitBTC vs BTS which is much riskier than shorting fiat vs BTS.


fiat part is always hard as it requires KYC often, offering trustless fiat stable crypto is already more than anyone else offers. closest alternative is p2p solutions like bisq/bitsquare that use escrows. anyway, I don't think focusing on real fiat onramp to crypto is important given other methods.

[yvv]

Yes, Atomic Swaps would allow to transfer BTC to Bitshares DEX bitBTC without third party UIAs. It would be great progress, but there is still the problem on the FIAT side. My proposal is to use gateways but with P2P exchanges, not with third parties.

You need a third party for fiat exchange anyway. How are you going to pay fiat to your peer? Send cash in an envelope by mail? Then the mail service will be your third party.

[severo]

Yes, Atomic Swaps would allow to transfer BTC to Bitshares DEX bitBTC without third party UIAs. It would be great progress, but there is still the problem on the FIAT side. My proposal is to use gateways but with P2P exchanges, not with third parties.

[moinyoin]

trustless gateways are being attempted as well: https://github.com/bitshares/bitshares-core/issues/363

if successful, can be implemented for more

[severo]

I think openledger is a trustworthy company... they also get a nice little revenue from bitshares and would face years of unpleasantry and criminal investigations if they ever tried to run away with the money. I just doubt Ronnie and the gang would do that. lol. They seem hardworking enough already.

It is important to note that openledger and any gateway is not safe in the same way as bitshares or bitshares-derived tokens.

I'm sure that company works well, and does a great job, but an IOU is not as secure as a bitshares-derived tokens. If we were convinced otherwise, there would be no Bitshares smartcoins. For the same reason an exchange P2P would also be more reliable, and the logical solution for the blockchain era, the era of the end of the middleman.

[KenMonkey]

I don't want to risk my money with a company.

Then stop using services which are provided by companies.

Is there any blockchain can act as a gateway? It's great if there is a decentralized gatewate that I can trust.

There are no miracles in this world.

Bitshares can make a sort of gateway... the exchange rate between bitBTC and openBTC under perfect market conditions should reflect trust in openledger's gateway. Usually bitBTC is a bit higher no?

I think openledger is a trustworthy company... they also get a nice little revenue from bitshares and would face years of unpleasantry and criminal investigations if they ever tried to run away with the money. I just doubt Ronnie and the gang would do that. lol. They seem hardworking enough already.

I also wanted to link this here

You don't need nobody's approval to be a bitshares gateway. Just issue your token. You can optionally set up your wallet where you can list yourself. Check out how rudex did: market.rudex.org (asset bitRUBLE).

It is important to note that openledger and any gateway is not safe in the same way as bitshares or bitshares-derived tokens.

[trustpay]

Thanks for your all opinions. I think I should accept the current situation and wait for a new update.

[severo]

Bisq has a small volume, but he works bravely. Implementations are not as simple as they seem, and should build trust. Despite being essential in the blockchain ecosystem, it is unfortunate that the main actors have not tried anything.

[yvv]

If no one except Bisq (or Coinffeine, but no longer exists, I think) has made a successful P2P, it means that the implications are not so simple at all.

If volume at Bitsq is close to 0, I guess this means that their implementation of P2P has some problems.

[yvv]

P2p exchange is great, but it has its disadvantage: you need to find a peer to make exchange, which can take time. Gateway service like openledger fills this gap. To make a deposit/withdrawal, you don't need to look for a peer, you deposit BTC to their wallet and few seconds later funds are in your bitshares account, but you need to trust their IOU.

Implementing a trustless p2p exchange in bitshares DEX, however,  would be absolutely great. A company like openledger could become a mega-peer and make the market.

[severo]

bisq is nothing more but a simple, decentralized order book. find a dev and implement escrow, and we got everything needed for this on bitshares.

The great Achilles' heel of the cryptocoins ecosystem has always been the exchange centralized by FIAT. If no one except Bisq (or Coinffeine, but no longer exists, I think) has made a successful P2P, it means that the implications are not so simple at all. The advantages are obvious, the similarity of concept with the operation of the cryptocoins is total (the elimination of third parties)

But, if it is so simple, why has it not been launched, in Bitshares?