Author Topic: Upcoming WP for creating easy to use liquidity bots. Feedback please!  (Read 15174 times)

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Offline fav

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Offline yvv

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It looks like btsbots developer is serious about stopping it. This sucks. This is the best end user product on bitshares so far. And yeah, we need a replacement.

Offline 白衣

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这是一个积极的、有意义的举动。期待它的面世!
希望它是一个面向广大普通交易者群体的产品,而不是程序员才能运行的产品。
当任何一个参与交易的人都可以让机器人按照他制定的策略长期运行的时候,我相信Bitshares将会迎来更多的资金和参与者。

Offline Crypto Kong

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Bitspark is planning to create some bots (https://blog.bitspark.io/bitspark-and-the-future-of-zephyr-roadmap/). How would you cooperate?

Quote
Trading Bots: In addition to the above, the Bitshares DEX can benefit from additional trading bots. These bots should undertake trading strategies which benefits Bitspark’s overall goal of executing remittances on-chain via the DEX without leaving Bitspark vulnerable to exchange rate risk. The easiest of such bots are market makers for similar UIAs like the above aforementioned Bitcoin UIAs. These bots will take both sides of the trade and list orders at a cascading order book depth to maximise opportunities. Additional triangular arbitrage bots would be another useful addition given the increase in available pairs with the gateway.

However, making these bots accessible to the general public and also ensuring the public is aware of lucrative opportunities on the DEX is important, therefore Bitspark will Open Source all trading bots and provide additional infrastructure for monitoring, arbitrage and trading opportunities on the DEX. The additional monitoring and promotion can be in the form of notifications on the Bitspark website, gateway, mobile app and social media channels with constant monitoring of markets providing customers simple information like “3% Buy opportunity on bitUSD/bridge.BTC available now”. The more people aware of these opportunities, the better orderbook depth for Bitspark remittances.
George from bitspark joined our room a while ago and did mention they were thinking of making bots available. I’ve not heard from him since, I’ll look into this more and try and co ordinate with George. There’s no need for 2 projects that are the same, we will discuss and see if we can help them or them help us. Whichever works best and is fastest. Thanks for bringing this up.


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Offline yvv

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Bitshares does a horrible job of reporting / P&L anyway (for now), as you can't export your trade histories more than a few blocks back.

This is true, and this is pita. If this proposal would address P&L reporting issue, I would support this worker without asking no more questions, plus offer a donation on top.

We very much would like to include P/L reporting, but aren't quite sure how to calculate profit. Like if you trade in the BTS:EOS market, how would you report profits? You can't do it in USD, because if both go down in terms of USD, you report a loss even if the bot has made a profit. Maybe compare the outcome to just holding the initial balance - and that on a graph over time. What do you think?

It is not a job of trading software to calculate P&L. Trading software should provide all info necessary to calculate it. If I trade in BTS:EOS market, I would like to know a change of my BTS balance, and a change of EOS balance over a specified period, then it is up to me to convert it into USD or other fiat. Btsbots does this, but only over 28 days period. For tax purpose for example, it should be a fiscal year, which may be different in some countries. And this should be provable, such that tax authorities can conduct audit. In other words, they should be able to get all your transactions and calculate your P&L themselves.

« Last Edit: December 05, 2017, 09:54:05 am by yvv »

Offline paliboy

Bitspark is planning to create some bots (https://blog.bitspark.io/bitspark-and-the-future-of-zephyr-roadmap/). How would you cooperate?

Quote
Trading Bots: In addition to the above, the Bitshares DEX can benefit from additional trading bots. These bots should undertake trading strategies which benefits Bitspark’s overall goal of executing remittances on-chain via the DEX without leaving Bitspark vulnerable to exchange rate risk. The easiest of such bots are market makers for similar UIAs like the above aforementioned Bitcoin UIAs. These bots will take both sides of the trade and list orders at a cascading order book depth to maximise opportunities. Additional triangular arbitrage bots would be another useful addition given the increase in available pairs with the gateway.

However, making these bots accessible to the general public and also ensuring the public is aware of lucrative opportunities on the DEX is important, therefore Bitspark will Open Source all trading bots and provide additional infrastructure for monitoring, arbitrage and trading opportunities on the DEX. The additional monitoring and promotion can be in the form of notifications on the Bitspark website, gateway, mobile app and social media channels with constant monitoring of markets providing customers simple information like “3% Buy opportunity on bitUSD/bridge.BTC available now”. The more people aware of these opportunities, the better orderbook depth for Bitspark remittances.

Offline MarkoPaasila

Quote
Bitshares does a horrible job of reporting / P&L anyway (for now), as you can't export your trade histories more than a few blocks back.

This is true, and this is pita. If this proposal would address P&L reporting issue, I would support this worker without asking no more questions, plus offer a donation on top.

We very much would like to include P/L reporting, but aren't quite sure how to calculate profit. Like if you trade in the BTS:EOS market, how would you report profits? You can't do it in USD, because if both go down in terms of USD, you report a loss even if the bot has made a profit. Maybe compare the outcome to just holding the initial balance - and that on a graph over time. What do you think?

Offline MarkoPaasila

If the bot was released open source on github, and could run from Ubuntu, I'd be interested.

If the bot was even hard coded to give a 1% donation from all profitable trades to a hardcoded BTS user, I'd even leave that in there to support the developers myself. Of course anyone could take that out, but if I get 99% profit from using the bot, I'd use it.

Don't bother trying to donate from the profit. That's a whole huge can of worms. Profit is NOT easy to calculate from a MM bot - AND, Bitshares does a horrible job of reporting / P&L anyway (for now), as you can't export your trade histories more than a few blocks back.

Coming from a seasoned market maker, I encourage you not to code in any donations based on profit. The whole point of BitShares is that you wouldn't need to anyway - that's what the Bitshares funding mechanism is for (worker).

In any case, BitShares desperately needs more liquidity. It would be cool if this helped the average user participate in market making - love this movement! Nice work!

Bot shouldn't focus too much on profit at first. Just make a way for noobs to add buy and sell walls with X% difference from feed price. More advanced techniques can come later easily.

I absolutely agree with you, especially as profits are really hard to calculate. Like if you trade in the EOS:STEEM market, which one of them to calculate profits in? Or should profits be calculated in some third asset? Profit compared to what, just holding? Over what time period? In addition the value of an asset is hypothetical until it is converted, so all comparisons and supposed profits are also hypothetical. So you are very right about this.

But I really think market making is probably profitable statistically. With a smart market making strategy you are more likely to profit than to loose. You need to choose the assets wisely - to avoid ending up with a bag of worthless assets. Then you need to estimate short term volatility and the price range you think the price will likely stay within long-term. After that you can very likely make a profit.

The possibility - even probability - of a profit will be the main reason for many people to use the bot in the first place, and I would like to tap into that source of motivation, so that as many users as possible would join the force and provide the added value to the network. I would also like the people deciding the fate of the WP (voters) to see the incredible power of this possibility - but without giving any empty promises. By collectively investing a few thousand dollars BitShares would have something incredibly appealing. It could bring thousands of new users, and activate passive observers. I just don't know how to communicate this effectively without people getting a knee-jerk reaction that it sounds like a scam.

Offline oxarbitrage


Offline yvv

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Bitshares does a horrible job of reporting / P&L anyway (for now), as you can't export your trade histories more than a few blocks back.

This is true, and this is pita. If this proposal would address P&L reporting issue, I would support this worker without asking no more questions, plus offer a donation on top.


This is not true anymore :) even if we have no infrastructure developed for ElasticSearch plugin yet ...

I have a working wrapper for it here: https://github.com/oxarbitrage/bitshares-es-wrapper with some sample urls on what can be done.

API call can be constructed to get all the FILL ORDERS from an account , check the last sample of the readme. By scraping the operation and the amounts inside i suppose the p&l can be obtained.

This is nice, but this is still very cryptic. I can't imagine average trader being able to parse this output. Can it be a little more user friendly, like actual asset names instead of ids, like "X of asset A exchanged for Y of asset B, date, time"?

Offline oxarbitrage

Quote
Bitshares does a horrible job of reporting / P&L anyway (for now), as you can't export your trade histories more than a few blocks back.

This is true, and this is pita. If this proposal would address P&L reporting issue, I would support this worker without asking no more questions, plus offer a donation on top.


This is not true anymore :) even if we have no infrastructure developed for ElasticSearch plugin yet ...

I have a working wrapper for it here: https://github.com/oxarbitrage/bitshares-es-wrapper with some sample urls on what can be done.

API call can be constructed to get all the FILL ORDERS from an account , check the last sample of the readme. By scraping the operation and the amounts inside i suppose the p&l can be obtained.

Offline yvv

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Bitshares does a horrible job of reporting / P&L anyway (for now), as you can't export your trade histories more than a few blocks back.

This is true, and this is pita. If this proposal would address P&L reporting issue, I would support this worker without asking no more questions, plus offer a donation on top.

Offline renkcub

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If the bot was released open source on github, and could run from Ubuntu, I'd be interested.

If the bot was even hard coded to give a 1% donation from all profitable trades to a hardcoded BTS user, I'd even leave that in there to support the developers myself. Of course anyone could take that out, but if I get 99% profit from using the bot, I'd use it.

Don't bother trying to donate from the profit. That's a whole huge can of worms. Profit is NOT easy to calculate from a MM bot - AND, Bitshares does a horrible job of reporting / P&L anyway (for now), as you can't export your trade histories more than a few blocks back.

Coming from a seasoned market maker, I encourage you not to code in any donations based on profit. The whole point of BitShares is that you wouldn't need to anyway - that's what the Bitshares funding mechanism is for (worker).

In any case, BitShares desperately needs more liquidity. It would be cool if this helped the average user participate in market making - love this movement! Nice work!

Bot shouldn't focus too much on profit at first. Just make a way for noobs to add buy and sell walls with X% difference from feed price. More advanced techniques can come later easily.