Author Topic: Upcoming WP for creating easy to use liquidity bots. Feedback please!  (Read 6917 times)

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Offline MarkoPaasila

Imagine you held some cryptocurrency. Someone tells you that there is a way to increase the value of your coin and simultaneously accumulate more of it. An easy way. You can just stake your coins and get a passive income. Like you can have your own masternode with as little as $1. You might earn 0.01% per day, or 10%. Depends on the day. And you don't even take the value from someone else. No, you increase the value of the whole.

It sounds good doesn't it? That's the appeal of passive income. It's incredibly powerful. That's what we intend to do for Bitshares.

We will make a Worker Proposal about making liquidity bot software. There already are some alternatives, but we will provide:

User Friendly, Appealing Liquidity Bot software Free for Anyone to Use on BitShares.

When our work is done, people will find an easy to use liquidity bot with several liquidity providing strategies optimized for BitShares. The software will be especially tailored for the average user, for who anything complicated is an insurmountable obstacle. The goal is that every single user can benefit from the bot, and hence, benefit Bitshares.

Solve the Chicken-Egg Problem of Liquidity and Volume

Most people simply hold their coins in a wallet. When they need to exchange for something else, they look for a liquid market. On the other hand, when liquidity providers choose a market, they look for an active one. This is a chicken-egg problem.

Once our work is done, people who would otherwise just hold their coins, will have the road paved for them to provide liquidity in any market. Once people start trading in the new markets, the liquidity providers will earn the spreads. This will help bootstrap lots of new markets.

Improve the Liquidity of Existing Markets

All the markets on Bitshares are incredibly shallow compared to many centralized exchanges. This situation will gradually improve, but with lots of new liquidity providers things will speed up. Time is money.

Better than Letting Your Coins Rust - Passive Income

With most coins out there you can't do anything. They just lie idle in peoples wallets. With a way to make your money work for you, would you not do just that? With user friendly software anyone can put any currency to work. Compounding profits is an incredibly powerful force. We think this possibility will make Bitshares as an exchange very appealing first of all to BTS holders, but also to holders of other coins. Finally Bitshares will have what DASH and many other blockchains have; a way to stake your assets and get a passive income. Even a small income has proven to be a powerful incentive for "staking". People also don't even have to touch BTS, BTC or Fiat. They can earn a passive income of their currency of choice!

Many will wonder if providing liquidity actually yields any profit. Of course this is a very complex subject, but in general you can think of liquidity providing as the opposite of paying a premium. If you want to buy now for whatever price is available, you pay for the privilege. The ones who benefit are the ones providing liquidity. They buy low and sell high. Constantly. Many community members in Bitshares are providing liquidity to the markets, and making some nice profit. Check out the Bitshares Liquidity Group in Telegram. https://t.me/DEXLIQUIDITYBTS

Lots and Lots of Benefits to the Community

  • There will be a greater demand for Lifetime Memberships - and referral income
  • The extra excitement about BitShares
  • Proponents of other cryptocurrencies will be incentivized to provide liquidity on BitShares, while benefiting all three; BitShares, the other cryptocurrency, and the person himself
  • Market Depth Charts will look much better, improving the user experience and encouraging trading on BitShares
  • Simply more transactions - activity
  • Holders will have the incentive to migrate to BitShares from other centralized exchanges
  • More people will be exposed to the actual Bitshares, not just BTS. This could result in more voting activity, more word-of-mouth, a more positive sentiment about Bitshares.
  • More people will put their BTS on the markets or short MPA's; effectively reducing the BTS supply
  • We will have attracted new developers who have become familiar with Bitshares and able to contribute more in the future
  • We will better support businesses building on Bitshares, like Bitspark
  • The combined effect of all the above might start a snowball-effect, providing the final push over the tipping point

We intend to start working in January.

Please Contribute and Give Your Opinions

This will be a Worker Proposal, and we want community input in order to get it right. After all, the community as a whole should benefit from this more than any individual.

The WP draft is on Google Docs. Feel free to comment and make changes. We will review them. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1z2rMlMiMufHdZEirc8x9lKuqSHvLAsVDOYK3xr4AfYE/edit?usp=sharing

There is also a Telegram group dedicated to this WP. https://t.me/BTSLiquidityBotWorkerProposal

Offline pc

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Re: Upcoming WP for creating easy to use liquidity bots. Feedback please!
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2017, 02:28:12 pm »
Whenever I read promises like these
Quote
Someone tells you that there is a way to increase the value of your coin and simultaneously accumulate more of it. An easy way. You can just stake your coins and get a passive income. Like you can have your own masternode with as little as $1. You might earn 0.01% per day, or 10%. Depends on the day. And you don't even take the value from someone else.

a klaxon goes off  in my head and a big red sign reading "SCAMMER" lights up.

You cannot write a bot that trades with a guaranteed profit.
Bitcoin - Perspektive oder Risiko? ISBN 978-3-8442-6568-2 http://bitcoin.quisquis.de

Offline yvv

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Re: Upcoming WP for creating easy to use liquidity bots. Feedback please!
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2017, 03:41:33 pm »
Btsbots already does pretty much what you describe, and they did not ask for funding through worker or other way. Sorry bro, but you have a tough competition here.

Offline Crypto Kong

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Upcoming WP for creating easy to use liquidity bots. Feedback please!
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2017, 10:00:17 am »
Btsbots already does pretty much what you describe, and they did not ask for funding through worker or other way. Sorry bro, but you have a tough competition here.
Bts bots is not easy to use and no one knows exactly what it’s programmed to do, for example it doesn’t work from the midpoint it works from the settlement price. This is not ideal. In active markets we need the option to work from a calculated mid point.

The point of the worker proposal is to provide liquidity providing tools to the masses so that everyone can help increase liquidity on the dex. Btsbots will never provide this. Also in the proposal it offers two additional liquidity providing strategies that btsbots does not offer (triangle arbitrage and staggered orders).



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Offline Crypto Kong

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Re: Upcoming WP for creating easy to use liquidity bots. Feedback please!
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2017, 10:02:46 am »
Whenever I read promises like these
Quote
Someone tells you that there is a way to increase the value of your coin and simultaneously accumulate more of it. An easy way. You can just stake your coins and get a passive income. Like you can have your own masternode with as little as $1. You might earn 0.01% per day, or 10%. Depends on the day. And you don't even take the value from someone else.

a klaxon goes off  in my head and a big red sign reading "SCAMMER" lights up.

You cannot write a bot that trades with a guaranteed profit.

thanks for highliting the language in the proposal needs changing. This is certainly not a guarantee of profits but providing tools to all so that everyone can be a market maker and provide liquidity to the dex. How profitable a market making strategy or business becomes is entirely up to the user.


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Offline Crypto Kong

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Upcoming WP for creating easy to use liquidity bots. Feedback please!
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2017, 10:15:56 am »
I’d like to mention btsbots. Marko and I started a room a while ago with the simple purpose of solving liquidity on the dex. From this room the bot proposal room was started.

In the liquidity room we have over 100 members now, btsbots is so hard to use I’d bet there’s less than 5 people in the room actively using it and these are some of the keenest people to provide liquidity in the community. All we talk about is btsbots and staggered orders, sometimes arbitrage. Jonny bitcoin has made a video guide, I have written a guide. Still we don’t know for sure what it does. How many years has btsbots been around? How few people are using it? Know about it? How little liquidity is it providing. To say btsbots is adequate to provide serious liquidity to the dex is naive and very unrealistic.

Btsbots only works on some markets and is only one strategy. The bot we are proposing will be available on ALL markets, even user created asset markets.

I hope that clears up why btsbots is a great toy to play with and not a good tool to work with. We are talking about providing serious liquidity to the whole dex. Not some chump change to one market. We need billions in liquidity.

Suggesting btsbots as adequate for this task, is quite frankly, a joke.


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« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 10:22:41 am by Crypto Kong »

Offline Crypto Kong

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Upcoming WP for creating easy to use liquidity bots. Feedback please!
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2017, 10:34:18 am »
What is market making and why do we need this bot?

Market makers provide liquidity to exchanges by placing orders on both the buy and sell side. These orders allow people to trade. Without them the order books are empty like most of our markets.

Market makers earn by buying low and selling high constantly throughout the day. They earn money from the spread they have created.

With a lack of market makers there is no competition and the spread stays large. (The spread is the difference in the highest buy and the lowest sell order).

By allowing access to bots for everyone more people can try their hand at market making. Increasing not only the amount orders on the books on our markets and increasing market depth but increasing competition between market makers and lowering the spread.




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« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 10:41:13 am by Crypto Kong »

Offline intelliguy

Re: Upcoming WP for creating easy to use liquidity bots. Feedback please!
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2017, 03:51:59 am »
If the bot was released open source on github, and could run from Ubuntu, I'd be interested.

If the bot was even hard coded to give a 1% donation from all profitable trades to a hardcoded BTS user, I'd even leave that in there to support the developers myself. Of course anyone could take that out, but if I get 99% profit from using the bot, I'd use it.
I'm @intelliguy on steemit. I usually get things right (or so they tell me), follow me there if you want to see more. Tips accepted to bitshares user: intelliguy-bts  (I'm a lifetime member because I trust in the Bitshares ecosystem)

Offline Crypto Kong

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Upcoming WP for creating easy to use liquidity bots. Feedback please!
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2017, 07:31:28 am »
If the bot was released open source on github, and could run from Ubuntu, I'd be interested.

If the bot was even hard coded to give a 1% donation from all profitable trades to a hardcoded BTS user, I'd even leave that in there to support the developers myself. Of course anyone could take that out, but if I get 99% profit from using the bot, I'd use it.
Thanks for your input. Obviously we want everyone to profit from this but the point is to provide tools to provide liquidity and orders on the books. Wether someone profits is down to the end user. The developers will be paid a fair price for their work, they won’t do it if they aren’t happy and it won’t get voted in if everyone in the community doesn’t agree. The scale of the profits given away with 1% would potentially be massive with the liquidity this bot can potentially create and is unnecessary as the developers will be paid already.

It’s worth pointing out though that with the number of transactions being constantly carried out (orders constantly placed and cancelled) bts fees and lifetime memberships will increase.

With regards to it being open source, marko can answer that question better for you but I believe the current plan is to use and improve the stake machine and get that working and improve it as advised by bill butler a while ago. This is currently available on github.


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« Last Edit: December 04, 2017, 07:34:47 am by Crypto Kong »

Offline Crypto Kong

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Re: Upcoming WP for creating easy to use liquidity bots. Feedback please!
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2017, 07:37:53 am »
From alt 9 hours ago with regards to btsbots:

btsbots.com will not support the fork because of the unreasonable trade logic.

so if this fork happened, btsbots will stop all service for Bitshares.
include feed price source and trade bots etc.



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Offline yvv

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Re: Upcoming WP for creating easy to use liquidity bots. Feedback please!
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2017, 09:47:04 am »
Btsbots already does pretty much what you describe, and they did not ask for funding through worker or other way. Sorry bro, but you have a tough competition here.
Bts bots is not easy to use and no one knows exactly what it’s programmed to do, for example it doesn’t work from the midpoint it works from the settlement price. This is not ideal. In active markets we need the option to work from a calculated mid point.

The point of the worker proposal is to provide liquidity providing tools to the masses so that everyone can help increase liquidity on the dex. Btsbots will never provide this. Also in the proposal it offers two additional liquidity providing strategies that btsbots does not offer (triangle arbitrage and staggered orders).



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Reference price which is calculated from multiple exchanges weighted by their volume is what actually makes btsbots useful.  Reference price calculated from a single market is not robust. And, btsbots is dumb easy to use, I don't know what difficulty are you talking about. You can download its source and look what is it programmed top do any time.


Offline Crypto Kong

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Re: Upcoming WP for creating easy to use liquidity bots. Feedback please!
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2017, 09:51:36 am »
Btsbots already does pretty much what you describe, and they did not ask for funding through worker or other way. Sorry bro, but you have a tough competition here.
Bts bots is not easy to use and no one knows exactly what it’s programmed to do, for example it doesn’t work from the midpoint it works from the settlement price. This is not ideal. In active markets we need the option to work from a calculated mid point.

The point of the worker proposal is to provide liquidity providing tools to the masses so that everyone can help increase liquidity on the dex. Btsbots will never provide this. Also in the proposal it offers two additional liquidity providing strategies that btsbots does not offer (triangle arbitrage and staggered orders).



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Reference price which is calculated from multiple exchanges weighted by their volume is what actually makes btsbots useful.  Reference price calculated from a single market is not robust. And, btsbots is dumb easy to use, I don't know what difficulty are you talking about. You can download its source and look what is it programmed top do any time.
Thankyou for your opinion, can I ask your opinion on the other two strategies we intend to provide that btsbots does not?


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Offline MarkoPaasila

Re: Upcoming WP for creating easy to use liquidity bots. Feedback please!
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2017, 11:16:28 am »
Whenever I read promises like these
Quote
Someone tells you that there is a way to increase the value of your coin and simultaneously accumulate more of it. An easy way. You can just stake your coins and get a passive income. Like you can have your own masternode with as little as $1. You might earn 0.01% per day, or 10%. Depends on the day. And you don't even take the value from someone else.

a klaxon goes off  in my head and a big red sign reading "SCAMMER" lights up.

You cannot write a bot that trades with a guaranteed profit.

You are very right. That was just my poor attempt to make a nice opening paragraph for this pre-announcement, the purpose of which is to get community feedback in order to get the WP right - that we promise the right things. So the Worker Proposal won't include such statements, neither will the deliverable software itself.

That said, I think that no matter how the software and "staking" opportunity is presented to people, many will make use of it purely because of the appeal of possible  passive income. It's incredibly appealing, and DASH and several other coins (recently Waltoncoin) has made use of that, and tapped into user's greed, creating a nice positive feedback loop. We want to achieve something similar, but without empty promises of course.

Thanks for the feedback!

Offline MarkoPaasila

Re: Upcoming WP for creating easy to use liquidity bots. Feedback please!
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2017, 11:22:19 am »
If the bot was released open source on github, and could run from Ubuntu, I'd be interested.

If the bot was even hard coded to give a 1% donation from all profitable trades to a hardcoded BTS user, I'd even leave that in there to support the developers myself. Of course anyone could take that out, but if I get 99% profit from using the bot, I'd use it.

We will release it under the GPL or MIT licences, because it will be funded collectively and thus owned by the community. In addition, I wouldn't want to risk my funds by putting my private key's in a black box, so it just must be open source.

We very much intend to make it cross platform. Not just Linux and iOS, but even Windows. :-)

That 1% idea could be a good option if the WP doesn't pass. Thanks!

Offline MarkoPaasila

Re: Upcoming WP for creating easy to use liquidity bots. Feedback please!
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2017, 11:23:46 am »
From alt 9 hours ago with regards to btsbots:

btsbots.com will not support the fork because of the unreasonable trade logic.

so if this fork happened, btsbots will stop all service for Bitshares.
include feed price source and trade bots etc.

Oh no. We must hurry up now.



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