Author Topic: Upcoming WP for creating easy to use liquidity bots. Feedback please!  (Read 15067 times)

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Offline Crypto Kong

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Btsbots already does pretty much what you describe, and they did not ask for funding through worker or other way. Sorry bro, but you have a tough competition here.
Bts bots is not easy to use and no one knows exactly what it’s programmed to do, for example it doesn’t work from the midpoint it works from the settlement price. This is not ideal. In active markets we need the option to work from a calculated mid point.

The point of the worker proposal is to provide liquidity providing tools to the masses so that everyone can help increase liquidity on the dex. Btsbots will never provide this. Also in the proposal it offers two additional liquidity providing strategies that btsbots does not offer (triangle arbitrage and staggered orders).



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Reference price which is calculated from multiple exchanges weighted by their volume is what actually makes btsbots useful.  Reference price calculated from a single market is not robust. And, btsbots is dumb easy to use, I don't know what difficulty are you talking about. You can download its source and look what is it programmed top do any time.
Thankyou for your opinion, can I ask your opinion on the other two strategies we intend to provide that btsbots does not?


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I am not against another bot. I just say that open bot already exists and works very well. Reading your OP, I felt the same way as pc expressed, honestly. Just make your proposal plausible and it will be supported by community. If you mention what experience do you have in trading or developing trading bots, this will help to gain the trust.

Ok cool, thanks a lot. This is the kind of feedback we wanted. We’d really appreciate it if you joined our telegram group. You don’t have to be heavily involved but the more opinions and guidance we can get from the community the better. Here’s the link:
https://t.me/BTSLiquidityBotWorkerProposal


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Offline yvv

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Btsbots already does pretty much what you describe, and they did not ask for funding through worker or other way. Sorry bro, but you have a tough competition here.
Bts bots is not easy to use and no one knows exactly what it’s programmed to do, for example it doesn’t work from the midpoint it works from the settlement price. This is not ideal. In active markets we need the option to work from a calculated mid point.

The point of the worker proposal is to provide liquidity providing tools to the masses so that everyone can help increase liquidity on the dex. Btsbots will never provide this. Also in the proposal it offers two additional liquidity providing strategies that btsbots does not offer (triangle arbitrage and staggered orders).



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Reference price which is calculated from multiple exchanges weighted by their volume is what actually makes btsbots useful.  Reference price calculated from a single market is not robust. And, btsbots is dumb easy to use, I don't know what difficulty are you talking about. You can download its source and look what is it programmed top do any time.
Thankyou for your opinion, can I ask your opinion on the other two strategies we intend to provide that btsbots does not?


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I am not against another bot. I just say that open bot already exists and works very well. Reading your OP, I felt the same way as pc expressed, honestly. Just make your proposal plausible and it will be supported by community. If you mention what experience do you have in trading or developing trading bots, this will help to gain the trust.

Offline MarkoPaasila

From alt 9 hours ago with regards to btsbots:

btsbots.com will not support the fork because of the unreasonable trade logic.

so if this fork happened, btsbots will stop all service for Bitshares.
include feed price source and trade bots etc.

Oh no. We must hurry up now.



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Offline MarkoPaasila

If the bot was released open source on github, and could run from Ubuntu, I'd be interested.

If the bot was even hard coded to give a 1% donation from all profitable trades to a hardcoded BTS user, I'd even leave that in there to support the developers myself. Of course anyone could take that out, but if I get 99% profit from using the bot, I'd use it.

We will release it under the GPL or MIT licences, because it will be funded collectively and thus owned by the community. In addition, I wouldn't want to risk my funds by putting my private key's in a black box, so it just must be open source.

We very much intend to make it cross platform. Not just Linux and iOS, but even Windows. :-)

That 1% idea could be a good option if the WP doesn't pass. Thanks!

Offline MarkoPaasila

Whenever I read promises like these
Quote
Someone tells you that there is a way to increase the value of your coin and simultaneously accumulate more of it. An easy way. You can just stake your coins and get a passive income. Like you can have your own masternode with as little as $1. You might earn 0.01% per day, or 10%. Depends on the day. And you don't even take the value from someone else.

a klaxon goes off  in my head and a big red sign reading "SCAMMER" lights up.

You cannot write a bot that trades with a guaranteed profit.

You are very right. That was just my poor attempt to make a nice opening paragraph for this pre-announcement, the purpose of which is to get community feedback in order to get the WP right - that we promise the right things. So the Worker Proposal won't include such statements, neither will the deliverable software itself.

That said, I think that no matter how the software and "staking" opportunity is presented to people, many will make use of it purely because of the appeal of possible  passive income. It's incredibly appealing, and DASH and several other coins (recently Waltoncoin) has made use of that, and tapped into user's greed, creating a nice positive feedback loop. We want to achieve something similar, but without empty promises of course.

Thanks for the feedback!

Offline Crypto Kong

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Btsbots already does pretty much what you describe, and they did not ask for funding through worker or other way. Sorry bro, but you have a tough competition here.
Bts bots is not easy to use and no one knows exactly what it’s programmed to do, for example it doesn’t work from the midpoint it works from the settlement price. This is not ideal. In active markets we need the option to work from a calculated mid point.

The point of the worker proposal is to provide liquidity providing tools to the masses so that everyone can help increase liquidity on the dex. Btsbots will never provide this. Also in the proposal it offers two additional liquidity providing strategies that btsbots does not offer (triangle arbitrage and staggered orders).



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Reference price which is calculated from multiple exchanges weighted by their volume is what actually makes btsbots useful.  Reference price calculated from a single market is not robust. And, btsbots is dumb easy to use, I don't know what difficulty are you talking about. You can download its source and look what is it programmed top do any time.
Thankyou for your opinion, can I ask your opinion on the other two strategies we intend to provide that btsbots does not?


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Offline yvv

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Btsbots already does pretty much what you describe, and they did not ask for funding through worker or other way. Sorry bro, but you have a tough competition here.
Bts bots is not easy to use and no one knows exactly what it’s programmed to do, for example it doesn’t work from the midpoint it works from the settlement price. This is not ideal. In active markets we need the option to work from a calculated mid point.

The point of the worker proposal is to provide liquidity providing tools to the masses so that everyone can help increase liquidity on the dex. Btsbots will never provide this. Also in the proposal it offers two additional liquidity providing strategies that btsbots does not offer (triangle arbitrage and staggered orders).



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Reference price which is calculated from multiple exchanges weighted by their volume is what actually makes btsbots useful.  Reference price calculated from a single market is not robust. And, btsbots is dumb easy to use, I don't know what difficulty are you talking about. You can download its source and look what is it programmed top do any time.


Offline Crypto Kong

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From alt 9 hours ago with regards to btsbots:

btsbots.com will not support the fork because of the unreasonable trade logic.

so if this fork happened, btsbots will stop all service for Bitshares.
include feed price source and trade bots etc.



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Offline Crypto Kong

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If the bot was released open source on github, and could run from Ubuntu, I'd be interested.

If the bot was even hard coded to give a 1% donation from all profitable trades to a hardcoded BTS user, I'd even leave that in there to support the developers myself. Of course anyone could take that out, but if I get 99% profit from using the bot, I'd use it.
Thanks for your input. Obviously we want everyone to profit from this but the point is to provide tools to provide liquidity and orders on the books. Wether someone profits is down to the end user. The developers will be paid a fair price for their work, they won’t do it if they aren’t happy and it won’t get voted in if everyone in the community doesn’t agree. The scale of the profits given away with 1% would potentially be massive with the liquidity this bot can potentially create and is unnecessary as the developers will be paid already.

It’s worth pointing out though that with the number of transactions being constantly carried out (orders constantly placed and cancelled) bts fees and lifetime memberships will increase.

With regards to it being open source, marko can answer that question better for you but I believe the current plan is to use and improve the stake machine and get that working and improve it as advised by bill butler a while ago. This is currently available on github.


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« Last Edit: December 04, 2017, 07:34:47 am by Crypto Kong »

Offline intelliguy

If the bot was released open source on github, and could run from Ubuntu, I'd be interested.

If the bot was even hard coded to give a 1% donation from all profitable trades to a hardcoded BTS user, I'd even leave that in there to support the developers myself. Of course anyone could take that out, but if I get 99% profit from using the bot, I'd use it.
I'm @intelliguy on steemit. I usually get things right (or so they tell me), follow me there if you want to see more. Tips accepted to bitshares user: intelliguy-bts  (I'm a lifetime member because I trust in the Bitshares ecosystem)

Offline Crypto Kong

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What is market making and why do we need this bot?

Market makers provide liquidity to exchanges by placing orders on both the buy and sell side. These orders allow people to trade. Without them the order books are empty like most of our markets.

Market makers earn by buying low and selling high constantly throughout the day. They earn money from the spread they have created.

With a lack of market makers there is no competition and the spread stays large. (The spread is the difference in the highest buy and the lowest sell order).

By allowing access to bots for everyone more people can try their hand at market making. Increasing not only the amount orders on the books on our markets and increasing market depth but increasing competition between market makers and lowering the spread.




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« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 10:41:13 am by Crypto Kong »

Offline Crypto Kong

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I’d like to mention btsbots. Marko and I started a room a while ago with the simple purpose of solving liquidity on the dex. From this room the bot proposal room was started.

In the liquidity room we have over 100 members now, btsbots is so hard to use I’d bet there’s less than 5 people in the room actively using it and these are some of the keenest people to provide liquidity in the community. All we talk about is btsbots and staggered orders, sometimes arbitrage. Jonny bitcoin has made a video guide, I have written a guide. Still we don’t know for sure what it does. How many years has btsbots been around? How few people are using it? Know about it? How little liquidity is it providing. To say btsbots is adequate to provide serious liquidity to the dex is naive and very unrealistic.

Btsbots only works on some markets and is only one strategy. The bot we are proposing will be available on ALL markets, even user created asset markets.

I hope that clears up why btsbots is a great toy to play with and not a good tool to work with. We are talking about providing serious liquidity to the whole dex. Not some chump change to one market. We need billions in liquidity.

Suggesting btsbots as adequate for this task, is quite frankly, a joke.


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« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 10:22:41 am by Crypto Kong »

Offline Crypto Kong

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Whenever I read promises like these
Quote
Someone tells you that there is a way to increase the value of your coin and simultaneously accumulate more of it. An easy way. You can just stake your coins and get a passive income. Like you can have your own masternode with as little as $1. You might earn 0.01% per day, or 10%. Depends on the day. And you don't even take the value from someone else.

a klaxon goes off  in my head and a big red sign reading "SCAMMER" lights up.

You cannot write a bot that trades with a guaranteed profit.

thanks for highliting the language in the proposal needs changing. This is certainly not a guarantee of profits but providing tools to all so that everyone can be a market maker and provide liquidity to the dex. How profitable a market making strategy or business becomes is entirely up to the user.


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Offline Crypto Kong

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Btsbots already does pretty much what you describe, and they did not ask for funding through worker or other way. Sorry bro, but you have a tough competition here.
Bts bots is not easy to use and no one knows exactly what it’s programmed to do, for example it doesn’t work from the midpoint it works from the settlement price. This is not ideal. In active markets we need the option to work from a calculated mid point.

The point of the worker proposal is to provide liquidity providing tools to the masses so that everyone can help increase liquidity on the dex. Btsbots will never provide this. Also in the proposal it offers two additional liquidity providing strategies that btsbots does not offer (triangle arbitrage and staggered orders).



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Offline yvv

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Btsbots already does pretty much what you describe, and they did not ask for funding through worker or other way. Sorry bro, but you have a tough competition here.