Author Topic: PokerChips: Hosting Fair RNG Sessions  (Read 18831 times)

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Offline santaclause102

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I have some strong connections to high roller players that I would support here if you would find that helpful in some way at some point...

Are you on 2+2?

I don't play myself and am not active in the poker community. But I know a lot people (my brother is one) living in poker communities mostly in Asia. They play online mostly, all for a living.

Also note that the average quality of players got higher and higher over the last years and it gets more and more difficult for anyone to make money respectively that the average return decreases for high rollers. This can be a big factor for a high demand for low rake services...

Offline JakeThePanda

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I have some strong connections to high roller players that I would support here if you would find that helpful in some way at some point...

Are you on 2+2?

Offline santaclause102

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I have some strong connections to high roller players that I would support here if you would find that helpful in some way at some point...

Offline mint chocolate chip

Current Pokerstars rake table. If all the rake is returned to the shareholders, it is very profitable.

Stakes                                    % Rake   2 Player Cap   3-4 Player Cap   5+ Player Cap
$0.01/$0.02                             3.50%   $0.30                  $0.30           $0.30
$0.02/$0.05                             4.15%   $0.50                  $0.50           $1.00
$0.05/$0.10 to $0.08/$0.16     4.50%   $0.50                  $1.00           $1.50
$0.10/$0.25                             4.50%   $0.50                  $1.00           $2.00
$0.25/$0.50                             4.50%   $0.50                  $1.50           $2.50
$0.50/$1 to $3/$6                    4.50%   $0.50                  $1.50           $2.80
$5/$10 to $10/$20                   4.50%   $0.50                 $1.50           $3.00
$25/$50   4.50%                      $0.50   $2.00                  $3.00
$50/100   4.50%                      $2.00   $3.00                  $5.00
$100/$200 and above             4.50%   $2.00                  $5.00           $5.00

Rake would have to be much lower than traditional poker sites.
Rake on Seals with Clubs - the bitcoin poker site - is already much lower than traditional online poker sites I believe. A rake free system would be something special, of course that might not be shareholder friendly.

Offline JakeThePanda

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Current Pokerstars rake table. If all the rake is returned to the shareholders, it is very profitable.

Stakes                                    % Rake   2 Player Cap   3-4 Player Cap   5+ Player Cap
$0.01/$0.02                             3.50%   $0.30                  $0.30           $0.30
$0.02/$0.05                             4.15%   $0.50                  $0.50           $1.00
$0.05/$0.10 to $0.08/$0.16     4.50%   $0.50                  $1.00           $1.50
$0.10/$0.25                             4.50%   $0.50                  $1.00           $2.00
$0.25/$0.50                             4.50%   $0.50                  $1.50           $2.50
$0.50/$1 to $3/$6                    4.50%   $0.50                  $1.50           $2.80
$5/$10 to $10/$20                   4.50%   $0.50                  $1.50           $3.00
$25/$50   4.50%                      $0.50   $2.00                  $3.00
$50/100   4.50%                      $2.00   $3.00                  $5.00
$100/$200 and above             4.50%   $2.00                  $5.00           $5.00

Rake would have to be much lower than traditional poker sites. 

Offline Amazon

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Current Pokerstars rake table. If all the rake is returned to the shareholders, it is very profitable.

Stakes                                    % Rake   2 Player Cap   3-4 Player Cap   5+ Player Cap
$0.01/$0.02                             3.50%   $0.30                  $0.30           $0.30
$0.02/$0.05                             4.15%   $0.50                  $0.50           $1.00
$0.05/$0.10 to $0.08/$0.16     4.50%   $0.50                  $1.00           $1.50
$0.10/$0.25                             4.50%   $0.50                  $1.00           $2.00
$0.25/$0.50                             4.50%   $0.50                  $1.50           $2.50
$0.50/$1 to $3/$6                    4.50%   $0.50                  $1.50           $2.80
$5/$10 to $10/$20                   4.50%   $0.50                  $1.50           $3.00
$25/$50   4.50%                      $0.50   $2.00                  $3.00
$50/100   4.50%                      $2.00   $3.00                  $5.00
$100/$200 and above             4.50%   $2.00                  $5.00           $5.00
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Offline Markus

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wow, love this idea so much.

But at present the US has made online poker illegal on a federal level through the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act (UIGEA). Will there be a problem?

No problem at all.
ROW* comprises 6 890 000 000 people and has an annual GDP of 56 445 000 000 000 USD.


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Offline Amazon

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Howard Lederer and Chris Ferguson are walking the streets of Vegas these days.  That should tell you how strong the case was.  Also not true that all sites are banning US IP.  I still play online poker on like 5+ different sites.  There are still many options for US players.  Merge, Winning Poker, Bovada, Revolution and a bunch of other smaller sites.  Seals with Clubs is the biggest BTC poker site. 

You are correct in that major sites like PS don't offer to US players anymore, but that was part of the deal they made with the DOJ.  Same with Party Poker.

End Derail/

back to coding mumbo jumbo.  Stuff I don't understand.

Great, please contact me if anyone is making this real. I want to help as much as I can.
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Offline JakeThePanda

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Thank you both for the clarification. If I remember correctly, the owner of FTP, Howard Lederer and Chris Ferguson were charged for violations of gambling and money-laundering. Not sure what's after that. And now all major sites ban US IP to play real money (although NV and NJ start issueing online poker license).

Howard Lederer and Chris Ferguson are walking the streets of Vegas these days.  That should tell you how strong the case was.  Also not true that all sites are banning US IP.  I still play online poker on like 5+ different sites.  There are still many options for US players.  Merge, Winning Poker, Bovada, Revolution and a bunch of other smaller sites.  Seals with Clubs is the biggest BTC poker site. 

You are correct in that major sites like PS don't offer to US players anymore, but that was part of the deal they made with the DOJ.  Same with Party Poker.

End Derail/

back to coding mumbo jumbo.  Stuff I don't understand.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2014, 01:46:39 pm by JakeThePanda »

Offline Amazon

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Thank you both for the clarification. If I remember correctly, the owner of FTP, Howard Lederer and Chris Ferguson were charged for violations of gambling and money-laundering. Not sure what's after that. And now all major sites ban US IP to play real money (although NV and NJ start issueing online poker license).
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Offline JakeThePanda

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wow, love this idea so much.

But at present the US has made online poker illegal on a federal level through the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act (UIGEA). Will there be a problem?

This is 99% not true.  Playing online poker isn't illegal and it's not even clear that operating a poker site is illegal. Fulltilt Poker (FTP) and Pokerstars (PS) were never charged with operating a poker site.  It was about money laundering and bank fraud.  UIGEA is a law that makes it illegal for financial institutions (banks and credit card companies) to process payments to gambling sites.  A big part is based on the Wire Act.  The Wire Act was originally put in place specifically for sports betting.  The Department of Justice (DOJ) made a legal opinion on the Wire Act shortly after FTP and Pokerstars were charged.

The United States Department of Justice made public documents with its legal opinion on the Wire Act, 18U.S.C. § 1084, concluding that “interstate transmissions of wire communications that do not relate to a ‘sporting event of contest’ fall outside the reach of the Wire Act.”

The legality of online poker is too vague and this is probably the reason the DOJ hasn't tried to shut down any other poker sites after the FTP and PS case.

disclaimer:
I'm not a lawyer and don't claim to be an expert on the law or the legality of online poker.

« Last Edit: January 31, 2014, 12:55:50 pm by JakeThePanda »

Offline mint chocolate chip

wow, love this idea so much.

But at present the US has made online poker illegal on a federal level through the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act (UIGEA). Will there be a problem?

That is not true. Online poker was not made illegal because of the UIGEA. The UIGEA made it illegal for financial institutions to facilitate transactions between poker sites and people.

Offline Amazon

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wow, love this idea so much.

But at present the US has made online poker illegal on a federal level through the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act (UIGEA). Will there be a problem?
Forum Donation: PforumPLfVQXTi4QpQqKwoChXHkoHcxGuA

Offline JakeThePanda

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Awesome! :)  Online poker is the reason I found out about BTC.  Would this forever end the rigged RNG debate?

Offline toast

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Right, "blockchain" just means "chained cryptographically-dependent messages", in this case the mini-blockchain just uses proof-of-intent AKA signatures. No matter what, you need signatures from players on the state of the table up and including their decision, so theoretically at minimum you need a message of the form "sig_a(state_n, sig_b(state_n-1, sig_c(state_n-2, ...)))" initialized by the host and signed as it passes around the table, which is accepted as a transaction into the main chain. Hosts should have some freedom about what the message has to look like as long as players sign off on it (like, "host is allowed to kick players after just 15 seconds" or something).

« Last Edit: January 31, 2014, 02:55:03 am by toast »
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.