Author Topic: review the drastic fall  (Read 479 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline bitcrab

  • Committee member
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 767
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: bitcrab
  • GitHub: bitcrab
review the drastic fall
« on: August 09, 2018, 09:46:39 am »
check below graphs, it's the price chart of BTC/USDT and BTS/BTC and BTS/bitCNY at the same time period in yesterday.







what we can see is, BTS price drastically fell down in 2 hours,  from 0.000023 to 0.0000205BTC, or from 1.05 to 0.85bitCNY. 

comparatively, BTC fell down more  slowly, it cost BTC about 24 hours to fell from about 7100 to 6310 USD.

some factor play the key role to trigger the drastic fall, it is the big debt position.

after the 719 hard fork, target CR feature is enabled, however, unfortunately, GUI does not support this new feature until after the drastic fall.

some big debt position, including mine, are margin called at the begining of the fall, and quickly lead to drastic fall.

if the big debt position could have set target CR, things would be much better, as we can see, in other time, the BTS price change slowly.

so is the cowork of OMO+ spring fund to support the price make sense?  yes, even now I think it make sense, but the problem is that we under evaluate the impact of big debt positions without target CR setting...

 






« Last Edit: August 09, 2018, 10:07:02 am by bitcrab »

Offline Thul3

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 63
    • View Profile
Re: review the drastic fall
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2018, 10:11:35 am »
The big fall was caused by your stupid 5 million buy wall between 1.08 CNY and 1.03 CNY .
Price wouldn't have fallen so quick but constantly when you wouldn't have put your stupid buy wall creating a fake price.
External exchanges had lower prices for BTS already but it was artificially held up by your unnatural buy walls which everyone with a brain could see.
People didn't sold their BTS for under 1.084 because of that and Bitshares CMC ranking moved from 29 to 24 without any real reason beside your buy wall.So people knew exectly BTS is overpriced.
And what happens when your stupid buy wall gets eaten is that the price went instantly to its normal price range it and CMC rank went back to 29 .

So instead posting bullshit you can just say the heavy quickly drop was caused by your stupid buywall which was never approved or talked anywhere but just decided by your own person near your own margin.

The worst part even when the first buy walls were eaten you kept creating new margin for BitUSD which had already a Ratio of 2 to add keep holding the buy wall and pushed the margin down to 1.96.

Thats a irresponsible behavior and an abuse of the trust you manage on these account.You had no rights to go so low with the Ratio.Its again just your personal decission which wasn't talked or approved with anyone.

You act like you got a freepass for everything on Bitshares .You should be instantly removed from the OMO since you are clearly not able to hold a clear mind when your own assets are in danger


If you want you can call your buy wall a pump and dump......
but instead buying up you try to hold the price in a bear market.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2018, 10:14:13 am by Thul3 »

Offline bitcrab

  • Committee member
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 767
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: bitcrab
  • GitHub: bitcrab
Re: review the drastic fall
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2018, 10:33:13 am »
if you really like to shout like a crazy dog, up to you, I don't care.

I care what is the real cause of the fall.

I don't think the buy wall is the key cause of the fall, if the price in DEX is obvious higher than external exchange, traders can arbitrage to make them close.


Offline Thul3

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 63
    • View Profile
Re: review the drastic fall
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2018, 10:36:08 am »
Quote
traders can arbitrage to make them close.

Yes exectly and this was causing the holding of that fake price up for 2 days were everything else moved down.

CMC went up from 29 to 24 and once the buy wall got eaten up (even for quick profit by some traders)
the price dumped where it should be if there would be no buy wall before ......back to CMC rank 29


You clearly don't understand the issue.Just puting the buy wall up wont help at all.Maybe for a short time but without buyers willing to buy at that price you won't be able to hold at that price and there was noone willing to buy at that price cause you created an unhealthy manipulated price
« Last Edit: August 09, 2018, 10:49:35 am by Thul3 »

Offline bitcrab

  • Committee member
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 767
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: bitcrab
  • GitHub: bitcrab
Re: review the drastic fall
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2018, 10:48:11 am »
you cannot say the price 1.08 is faked but 0.85 is a true price. every price is the result of the activities in markets.

if there is no OMO, maybe the price has fallen to under 0.6.




Offline binggo

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 283
    • View Profile
Re: review the drastic fall
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2018, 10:48:37 am »
I think the feed price(from the Centralized exchange)need to take on some responsibility.

The neck of the Decentralized exchange was grabbed by the Centralized exchange.

Offline Thul3

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 63
    • View Profile
Re: review the drastic fall
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2018, 10:55:22 am »
you cannot say the price 1.08 is faked but 0.85 is a true price. every price is the result of the activities in markets.

if there is no OMO, maybe the price has fallen to under 0.6.

Of course i can't but i can assume based on experience that we would be based on CMC something between 30 and 28 and the price of 1.08 CNY causing that we were for a short time rank 24 caused a big down pressure since based on market conditions people were not willing to by BTS at that high price seeing it as overpriced.You could clearly see it on DEX that the price didn't moved higher than 1.105 when few people were buying near buy support in hope it may bounce from the wall
« Last Edit: August 09, 2018, 10:57:33 am by Thul3 »

Offline bitcrab

  • Committee member
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 767
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: bitcrab
  • GitHub: bitcrab
Re: review the drastic fall
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2018, 10:56:16 am »
I think the feed price(from the Centralized exchange)need to take on some responsibility.

The neck of the Decentralized exchange was grabbed by the Centralized exchange.

agreed, so need some witness to feed based on the BTS/bitCNY price in DEX, adding the bitCNY deposit fee.

Offline Thul3

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 63
    • View Profile
Re: review the drastic fall
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2018, 11:01:20 am »
I think the feed price(from the Centralized exchange)need to take on some responsibility.

The neck of the Decentralized exchange was grabbed by the Centralized exchange.

agreed, so need some witness to feed based on the BTS/bitCNY price in DEX, adding the bitCNY deposit fee.



LOL like i thought it is going to happen based on yesterdays first post here

Establishing the next price manipulation feature so even the feed price will be controlled from DEX

After seeing that post yesterday in chinese forum
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=26909.0
i was 100% sure this request will come and that your thread is a part of that strategy to control price feed so you can't get margin called anymore.

LOL
Creating a centralised dictarorship


Arbitrage didn't worked for you since price feed keept going down so now you try to even manipulate/dictate the feedprice
« Last Edit: August 09, 2018, 11:12:30 am by Thul3 »

Offline bitcrab

  • Committee member
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 767
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: bitcrab
  • GitHub: bitcrab
Re: review the drastic fall
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2018, 11:01:25 am »
you cannot say the price 1.08 is faked but 0.85 is a true price. every price is the result of the activities in markets.

if there is no OMO, maybe the price has fallen to under 0.6.

Of course i can't but i can assume based on experience that we would be based on CMC something between 30 and 28 and the price of 1.08 CNY causing that we were for a short time rank 24 caused a big down pressure since based on market conditions people were not willing to by BTS at that high price seeing it as overpriced.You could clearly see it on DEX that the price didn't moved higher than 1.105 when few people were buying near buy support in hope it may bounce from the wall

why CMC rank 28-30 is more reasonable than 20-25? and don't forget the price is above 1.3 just a couple weeks ago. and one of the sub purpose of OMO is to make BTS to price independently with BTC.

Offline Thul3

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 63
    • View Profile
Re: review the drastic fall
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2018, 11:02:10 am »
why its more reasonable you got your answer ....people didn't bought BTS at 1.08 at that market condition.
else we wouldn't be at 0.85
« Last Edit: August 09, 2018, 11:04:38 am by Thul3 »

Offline bitcrab

  • Committee member
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 767
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: bitcrab
  • GitHub: bitcrab
Re: review the drastic fall
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2018, 11:08:47 am »
why its more reasonable you got your answer ....people didn't bought BTS at 1.08 at that market condition.
else we wouldn't be at 0.85

so now pepole don't buy at 0.9, so 0.9 is also overpriced?
and tomorrow maybe the price fall down to under 0.8, and 0.8 is also overpriced?

Offline Thul3

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 63
    • View Profile
Re: review the drastic fall
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2018, 11:13:58 am »
don't act stupid or do you want to buy BTC today from me for $10k each which will be next year worth $20k ?

Offline bitcrab

  • Committee member
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 767
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: bitcrab
  • GitHub: bitcrab
Re: review the drastic fall
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2018, 11:14:48 am »
I think the feed price(from the Centralized exchange)need to take on some responsibility.

The neck of the Decentralized exchange was grabbed by the Centralized exchange.

agreed, so need some witness to feed based on the BTS/bitCNY price in DEX, adding the bitCNY deposit fee.



LOL like i thought it is going to happen based on yesterdays first post here

Establishing the next price manipulation feature so even the feed price will be controlled from DEX

After seeing that post yesterday in chinese forum
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=26909.0
i was 100% sure this request will come and that your thread is a part of that strategy to control price feed so you can't get margin called anymore.

LOL
Creating a centralised dictarorship


Arbitrage didn't worked for you since price feed keept going down so now you try to even manipulate/dictate the feedprice

what we want is just to avoid the price maunipulation from outside DEX.

Offline paliboy

Re: review the drastic fall
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2018, 11:20:41 am »
some factor play the key role to trigger the drastic fall, it is the big debt position.

after the 719 hard fork, target CR feature is enabled, however, unfortunately, GUI does not support this new feature until after the drastic fall.

some big debt position, including mine, are margin called at the begining of the fall, and quickly lead to drastic fall.

if the big debt position could have set target CR, things would be much better, as we can see, in other time, the BTS price change slowly.

so is the cowork of OMO+ spring fund to support the price make sense?  yes, even now I think it make sense, but the problem is that we under evaluate the impact of big debt positions without target CR setting...

Assuming that target collateral ratio is implemented as designed and doesn't contain bugs, it should not influence the price in any way. It's just a nice feature for big debt positions so that they are partially protected.

E.g. there are two big positions called (2 mil bitUSD and 1 mil. bitUSD in this order). A buyer with 0.5 mil bitUSD places an order to buy BTS.

Before hard fork, buyer gets what he wants and two positons will be still called (1.5 mil bitUSD and 1 mil bitUSD in this order no matter what CR these two positions have - a bug).

After hard for, buyer gets what he wants and two positons will be still called (1.5 mil bitUSD and 1 mil bitUSD, order depends on new CRs that are counted immediately after order is filled).

Optionally, both debt position owners can set target collateral ratio which could effectively protect the first one but it has no effect on market price - this only depends on buyers and sellers.