Author Topic: bitusd peg  (Read 48562 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline pc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1523
    • View Profile
    • Bitcoin - Perspektive oder Risiko?
  • BitShares: cyrano
Re: bitusd peg
« Reply #75 on: May 30, 2019, 07:36:49 am »
Open Market or Insurance Fund or Reserve Fund

Settlement is mostly meant to be used when the market does not provide sufficient liquidity, so that's not an answer.
We don't have an Insurance Fund, so you must spec out that too.
We have so far strictly avoided using the reserves for bailing out speculators, and IMO that's a good thing. I hope such a proposal will have little chance to succeed.

Point is this ....needs to get started or once again an opportunity will be blown..

Then go ahead and write a specification. Answering a few select questions on a simple example is not one.
Bitcoin - Perspektive oder Risiko? ISBN 978-3-8442-6568-2 http://bitcoin.quisquis.de

Offline bitstopia2049

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: bitusd peg
« Reply #76 on: May 30, 2019, 11:09:20 am »
Open Market or Insurance Fund or Reserve Fund

Settlement is mostly meant to be used when the market does not provide sufficient liquidity, so that's not an answer.
We don't have an Insurance Fund, so you must spec out that too.
We have so far strictly avoided using the reserves for bailing out speculators, and IMO that's a good thing. I hope such a proposal will have little chance to succeed.

Point is this ....needs to get started or once again an opportunity will be blown..

Then go ahead and write a specification. Answering a few select questions on a simple example is not one.

I could engage but..
It always comes down to this...everything gets personal.

If the whales have the most votes..stand to benefit the most..and are adept at writing "specifications" given the constant tinkering over MCR,, MSSR.etc.etc.,   (and history shows they are the only proposals that get approved..)..is it minnows responsibility to write specifications...that's like a lawyer disagreeing with his client and having a tantrum and says, "OK..go ahead..represent yourself in court"...

and yet your reply to me is " go ahead you do it..".....

You know what...I'm done.....Keep talking to yourselves...I'm sure shortly there will be a stampede of buyers for BTS because...MCR is now 1.6!

In sports when the team players, the manager, the owners, the sponsors, the fans are all bickering because of the franchises losing record..

  there is a saying..."Winning solves a lot of problems"..

If we're going to make it personal..

Engineers are not Marketers and Marketers are not Engineers...

e.g   Steve Jobs and Stephen Wozniak...made Apple Inc..a winner
« Last Edit: May 30, 2019, 07:17:50 pm by bitstopia2049 »

Offline pc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1523
    • View Profile
    • Bitcoin - Perspektive oder Risiko?
  • BitShares: cyrano
Re: bitusd peg
« Reply #77 on: May 31, 2019, 07:24:43 am »
It always comes down to this...everything gets personal.

I'm sorry if my tone was offensive. It wasn't meant to be.

What I'm trying to say is - it's easy to say "we need this" but it's damn hard to get the details right. I don't see how this idea could be made to work, and despite the fact that it has been brought up repeatedly over the past two years or so, *nobody* has come up with a detailed description of *how exactly* it could be done.

That's why I say "Write a BSIP". *Someone* has to come up and describe the mechanics of a bitasset that is backed by multiple tokes at once. You don't need a deep understanding of MCR and MSSR. Maybe it's even better if you don't know much about these, and come up with your own ideas instead. Write down what you think it means to have an asset backed by two other assets. Describe what different actors in this model can do, like short tokens, trade tokens, settle tokens.

Once you're finished, start attacking your model with questions like mine above - "What if...?". If you model has an answer to all your questions it might be time to show it to the public, and see how it holds against *their* questions. I'm pretty sure if you come up with a working model it will be accepted.
Bitcoin - Perspektive oder Risiko? ISBN 978-3-8442-6568-2 http://bitcoin.quisquis.de

Offline larsonreever

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5
    • View Profile
    • windows 10 drivers update
Re: bitusd peg
« Reply #78 on: May 31, 2019, 08:09:26 am »
There's no step by step instructions in the Tech Support section of the forum either..

Offline bitstopia2049

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: bitusd peg
« Reply #79 on: May 31, 2019, 05:55:17 pm »
It always comes down to this...everything gets personal.

I'm sorry if my tone was offensive. It wasn't meant to be.

What I'm trying to say is - it's easy to say "we need this" but it's damn hard to get the details right. I don't see how this idea could be made to work, and despite the fact that it has been brought up repeatedly over the past two years or so, *nobody* has come up with a detailed description of *how exactly* it could be done.

That's why I say "Write a BSIP". *Someone* has to come up and describe the mechanics of a bitasset that is backed by multiple tokes at once. You don't need a deep understanding of MCR and MSSR. Maybe it's even better if you don't know much about these, and come up with your own ideas instead. Write down what you think it means to have an asset backed by two other assets. Describe what different actors in this model can do, like short tokens, trade tokens, settle tokens.

Once you're finished, start attacking your model with questions like mine above - "What if...?". If you model has an answer to all your questions it might be time to show it to the public, and see how it holds against *their* questions. I'm pretty sure if you come up with a working model it will be accepted.

Thanks for your reply...No worries...I understand your dilemma.

Part of my exasperation is that it SEEMS like the marketing aspect of BTS does not get the support or attention from Whales that it needs ..and of course given the BTS governance structure that is the only type of attention that matters..

What's frustrating to me (and I suspect many others) is that there never seems to be even a consensus to TRY something ..any marketing effort that all supporters of BTS can contribute to..(whether whales or not)...https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=27733.msg328382#msg328382

As I said in this thread 60+ days ago  "we won't succeed  if we don't try"   (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=27733.msg328539#msg328539)

A lot of energy just gets dissipated in debate & dispute...and the perfect (solution) becomes the enemy of the good..

e.g..The above referenced analysis done by Mr. Cryptic1 at dexbot.info....I thought there might at least be a discussion on here regarding the report's conclusions and/or suggestions by subject matter experts,

The report clearly states,

"...factors that need widespread dissemination and discussion. I believe all policy makers would be better informed after considering the ideas contained here in.." 

My perception is that for such a long time marketing efforts are invariably submerged by what seems like a singular focus on the financial engineering aspects of the ecosystem..which by it's nature tends to dissuade a part of the BTS community from joining the discussion...including newbies, (i.e community growth)..

If anyone other than a whale or some sort of influential equivalent poses marketing ideas it shouldn't feel like a thankless task to be ignored or maybe a vector for personal attack, I for one would just consider it  like  "open source brainstorming"...

My attempts to start a discussion ..feels like tossing confetti into the wind instead of seeds onto soil. . 
(but we were in agreement here....https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=27733.msg328409#msg328409)..

If the discussions on here are made more appealing..maybe some solution to the questions you pose (regarding allowing BitAssets to be backed by other coins), might emerge from the collective wisdom and energy of a larger group of participants...You never know when or how a moment of inspiration will occur....

Speaking of which...a moonshot idea occurred to me whilst in the kitchen...

so I sent bitcrab a PM....instead of giving up and not even trying...I think that was the responsible thing to do..


Offline bitcrab

  • Committee member
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1650
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: bitcrab
  • GitHub: bitcrab
Re: bitusd peg
« Reply #80 on: June 21, 2019, 05:32:51 pm »
I don't think the peg is a big problem.

but I am confused that why now very few users are interested in bitUSD.

because of the black swan bitUSD lost most trust?

Offline bitstopia2049

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: bitusd peg
« Reply #81 on: June 22, 2019, 03:25:04 pm »
I don't think the peg is a big problem.

but I am confused that why now very few users are interested in bitUSD.

because of the black swan bitUSD lost most trust?

BTS supporters know that Bitshares is "better than" BTC -  faster, cheaper, scalable, etc., etc.
but how to convince an ordinary (non-crypto) person or family member who trusts your opinion to invest or spend $1000
e.g

Investment vehicles...

Bank savings account or time deposit -     since November 24 2018      ~  0.4% APR         $2.33  profit           ROI     0.233%      perception : no risk of loss of principal

BTC  -  price was 3854  and on June 22nd   1:43pm UTC    price is   ~ $11085              $1876  profit                ROI  187.6%     (high volatility)

BTS (bit USD settlement price)  was     ~ $US   0.0511   -    (190622)    ~ 0.067            $311   profit          ROI  31%         (med volatility)

Gold               US$ 1221 per ounce..        ~    1399.31                      $146  profit                ROI   14.6%     (low volatility)   


Utility value  versus fiat : 

 BTC - allows for purchases of some goods and services;  remittances to family, friends, business associates, who understand crypto
CANNOT use to pay taxes, university tuition fees,  political campaign contributions, donate to charities... yet..

Gold -Relatively stable investment, retirement savings, high liquidity, transferable asset to heirs, hedge against fiat, etc

BTS -  not as volatile as BTC at the moment, has lots of potential, needs postive black swan to catch up to XRP, ETH, LTC, EOS, XMR, BCH, DOGE, ZEC

and the new kid on the Block (Chain)    LIBRA    (FACEBOOK) !

Offline bitstopia2049

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: bitusd peg
« Reply #82 on: July 02, 2019, 05:35:37 pm »
I don't think the peg is a big problem.

but I am confused that why now very few users are interested in bitUSD.

because of the black swan bitUSD lost most trust?

Because more trust is placed in USDT ....Because of Marketing or because of unlimited printing?

https://dailyhodl.com/2019/06/29/crypto-whales-move-444-million-in-bitcoin-as-tether-moves-millions-in-usdt/

https://dailyhodl.com/2019/06/30/billionaire-investor-betting-on-bitcoin-and-cryptocurrency/

https://dailyhodl.com/2019/06/27/china-calls-bitcoin-safe-haven-asset-as-global-economic-tensions-rise/


Maybe Asia based tycoons could put 2+ 2 together and figure out   >>   = BTS

Offline bitstopia2049

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: bitusd peg
« Reply #83 on: July 09, 2019, 08:19:12 pm »
I don't think the peg is a big problem.

but I am confused that why now very few users are interested in bitUSD.

because of the black swan bitUSD lost most trust?

                  USDT....like going to the movies

Wikipedia definition -- 
            Suspension of disbelief
The term suspension of disbelief or willing suspension of disbelief has been defined as a willingness to suspend one's critical faculties and believe something surreal; sacrifice of realism and logic for the sake of enjoyment.

https://decrypt.co/7795/investigators-tether-loaned-usdt-to-investors-illegally-traded-in-new-york-ran-an-unregistered-securities-offering

[Excerpt  (NYAG= New York Attorney General) ]

   Tether untethered

"...In April 2019, the NYAG released a damning action letter alleging that the exchange had dipped into Tether’s reserves—blithely using it as a “slush fund”—to fill an $850 million hole in its finances incurred by the losses of those funds from its shady payment processor, Crypto Capital Corps. The processor’s various ersatz bank accounts had been seized by law enforcement in
Poland, Portugal and the United States.

Bitfinex, having left a gaping hole in Tether’s dollar reserves, then proceeded to pay Tether back via a “line of credit” facilitated through a ledger entry with Crypto Capital, according to the NYAG. Prosecutors allege that the companies then used shares of their parent company, iFinex, to collateralize the deal. .."


"...What the NYAG provided yesterday is comprehensive. Exhibits included in the latest filing appear to show that Bitfinex and Tether allowed New York investors—including the high profile Galaxy Digital CEO Mike Novogratz—to trade and redeem tethers until “early 2019,” when the investigation itself was well under way....

"...Worse, the document alleges that the companies went to extraordinary lengths to accomodate their large New York investors, who apparently made up a considerable portion of the companies’ wealthiest customers. “In fact,” alleges the NYAG, Bitfinex and Tether assisted certain traders in “establishing foreign shell entities to become the nominal account holders—a work-around of Respondents’ purported ‘ban.’”..."



As transparent as the origins of bitUSD, bitCNY, bitXXX are - traders don't have to "suspend disbelief" to hold BTS stablecoins....Imagine making 10x ROI on BTC trade over the past 6 months..only to wake up one day and find out you've been Goxxed via USDT.... It seems only prudent to at least hedge by holding some part of profits in "healthier" stablecoins...better to patiently ride out an Altcoin bear than to lose everything..

... but I think this definition applies:

   Suspension of Disbelief - mediacollege.com
   https://www.mediacollege.com/glossary/s/suspension-of-disbelief.html

   Suspension of Disbelief. This is a semi-conscious decision in which you put aside your disbelief and accept the premise as being real for the duration of the story.

   Suspension of disbelief only works to a point. It is important that the story maintains its own form of believability and doesn't push the limits too far.


Question becomes how long is the "duration" of the Tethers story?

Obviously these "insiders" have seen the documentary.."The Smartest Guys in the Room"  and are anticipating leaving low man on the totem pole holding the bag.........Again..!

https://bitcoinist.com/16-million-worth-bitcoin-missing-as-exchange-quits-business/

A Poland-based Bitcoin exchange has abruptly shut down operations, taking away the cryptocurrency funds of thousands of users alongside
===
UPDATE:  Unfortunately this is not a movie...


                                     A BLACK SWAN IS A LOW PROBABILITY, LARGE IMPACT EVENT

"... a highly improbable event that catches most everyone by surprise and can potentially disrupt human activities or create havoc..."

« Last Edit: July 27, 2019, 09:18:41 pm by bitstopia2049 »

Offline abit

  • Committee member
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3891
    • View Profile
    • Steemit Blog
  • BitShares: abit
  • GitHub: abitmore
Re: bitusd peg
« Reply #84 on: July 11, 2019, 06:32:00 pm »
We are close to blackswan again. Least collateral ratio 1.272
BTS account: abit
BTS committee member: abit
BTS witness: in.abit

Offline Thul3

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 361
    • View Profile
Re: bitusd peg
« Reply #85 on: July 11, 2019, 06:45:20 pm »
We are close to blackswan again. Least collateral ratio 1.272

Charts also indicating a reversal for alts soon.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2019, 07:56:44 pm by Thul3 »

Offline bench

Re: bitusd peg
« Reply #86 on: July 11, 2019, 10:12:21 pm »
We are close to blackswan again. Least collateral ratio 1.272
Compaired to bitCNY, bitUSD has almost zero buying volume.

The bitCNY fees could be used to buy BTS, borrow bitUSD and settle bitUSD.
Be part of the change and vote for the bitshares-vision proxy!

Offline bitstopia2049

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: bitusd peg
« Reply #87 on: July 12, 2019, 05:38:03 pm »
We are close to blackswan again. Least collateral ratio 1.272
Compaired to bitCNY, bitUSD has almost zero buying volume.

We all use these types of products...every day...

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/public-goods-revolutionizing-household-products--3#/

This is a young company. HQ in NYC..{a crowdfunded startup}....I expect that if  the foundation reached out and educated them ..BBF could negotiate acceptance of bitUSD and other smartcoins ...
This is something ALL BitShares supporters (regardless of faction) can support...We ALL spend hundreds of dollars  on products like these over the course of weeks or months...so why not ?

In particular the female demograpic is sorely lacking in the crypto world and they generally do the spending, budgeting and influencing when it comes to household shopping..
This is the type of demographic that can appreciate the money savings that BTS can provide on transaction fees
and could also be producers of stablecoins.as well as save on credit card interest / paypal fees..and gain potential earnings from referral fees..

This is a use case with the potential to also illustrate to other merchants the superiority of BTS blockchain for retail sales...

[Note:   the developer who started DOGECOIN in 2014 was motivated " to create a fun cryptocurrency that could reach a broader demographic than Bitcoin."  and now...
(Today:  #28  US $404.6 m Market Cap and $41m   24hr Vol.)      #61   BTS:139m / 2.095 m]

https://www.crowdfundinsider.com/2019/05/147081-coinbase-announces-support-for-dogecoin-doge-on-coinbase-wallet/

=========================
There are some youtube links with honest (not sponsored) reviews below...

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/public-goods-revolutionizing-household-products--3#/

https://blog.publicgoods.com/
https://blog.publicgoods.com/how-to-choose-the-right-filter-for-your-drinking-water/

personal care and household goods
How does shipping work?
Contiguous US shipping is free for orders over $45. For international orders, the shipping cost will depend on your location and the size of the package.

They have a limited time promotion of lifetime memberships..

Secret
1x LIFETIME MEMBERSHIP
$69 USD   -- Regular $99 (30% off)
Never over pay for premium natural products again. Get a lifetime membership and access to all PUBLIC GOODS household, personal care and food products products… FOR LIFE!
Included Items
  Lifetime Membership    Only 224 left
===================================

for women
PUBLIC GOODS HAUL + REVIEW
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bmdi3FrptKk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EVOvU00qpo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbgqkWZIH7c

Offline bitstopia2049

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: bitusd peg
« Reply #88 on: July 27, 2019, 08:44:54 pm »
Open Market or Insurance Fund or Reserve Fund

Settlement is mostly meant to be used when the market does not provide sufficient liquidity, so that's not an answer.
We don't have an Insurance Fund, so you must spec out that too.
We have so far strictly avoided using the reserves for bailing out speculators, and IMO that's a good thing. I hope such a proposal will have little chance to succeed.

Point is this ....needs to get started or once again an opportunity will be blown..

Then go ahead and write a specification. Answering a few select questions on a simple example is not one.

To sschiessl ..or any dev who has time..

Is the current version of HTLC considered "trustless"  or will that be a feature in the next iteration?
https://github.com/bitshares/bitshares-core/wiki/HTLC

As currently shown...............https://wallet.bitshares.org/#/htlc

In this version

" 5. Redeem the HTLC (recipient)

    bob will obtain the preimage from alice, likely after performing the agreed upon task..."


If alice decides not to send the preimage even after the task is completed        ...then bob is .....?


If truly trustless this could be a solution to above problem....(at least until something better comes along, if ever..)

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=27733.msg330985#msg330985

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=28491.msg331534#msg331534

Offline bitstopia2049

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: bitusd peg
« Reply #89 on: July 27, 2019, 09:23:27 pm »
UPDATE
This movie did not have a happy ending...

https://decrypt.co/8086/bitmarket-exchange-tobias-nemiro-dead-poland

Co-owner of shuttered Polish cryptocurrency exchange Bitmarket found dead

The body of Tobias Niemiro was discovered yesterday with a bullet shot to the head.
By Adriana Hamacher

July 26, 2019

Police are investigating the death of Tobias Niemiro, a Polish entrepreneur and co-owner of cryptocurrency exchange Bitmarket, which closed on July 8 under suspicious circumstances.

Niemiro’s body was found with a bullet wound to the head on Thursday in a forest near his home city of Olsztyn, three hours from the Polish capital, Warsaw, according to local radio. The exact circumstances of his death are, as yet, unconfirmed.

Poland’s leading newspaper, Gazeta Wyborcza, which has been heavily following the story, suggested that Niemiro, 44, had committed suicide.