Committee Fund Operation Review

[Digital Lucifer]

Never said they are. Commitee (e.g. board of directors) as operators (fund managers) are responsible for it in every possible way including legal one. Do as you wish,

Chee®s

Hm, i didn't get it.

Can we chat somewhere so we don't spam forums ? I'm willing to explain in details.

[binggo]

Never said they are. Commitee (e.g. board of directors) as operators (fund managers) are responsible for it in every possible way including legal one. Do as you wish,

Chee®s

Hm, i didn't get it.

[Digital Lucifer]

Committee is set of 11 different accounts that are all responsible for funds, not just 1 account with support of community.

It should be voted by committee members, not a community - since community has no legal responsibility for the actions they vote for (yet).

Can you explain the "legal responsibility"?


These fund was operated by committees
I think you didn't read carefully what i said, it doesn't mean the fund belong to the committees.
If the community decided to something with this fund，the committees should follow the result of vote.
Committe have the right to make a proposal express what he or the voters want to do, this is what he should to do.

No action then will no responsibility, this will be very sad for the community.

Never said they are. Commitee (e.g. board of directors) as operators (fund managers) are responsible for it in every possible way including legal one. Do as you wish,

Chee®s

[binggo]

Committee is set of 11 different accounts that are all responsible for funds, not just 1 account with support of community.

It should be voted by committee members, not a community - since community has no legal responsibility for the actions they vote for (yet).

Can you explain the "legal responsibility"?


These fund was operated by committees
I think you didn't read carefully what i said, it doesn't mean the fund belong to the committees.
If the community decided to something with this fund，the committees should follow the result of vote.
Committe have the right to make a proposal express what he or the voters want to do, this is what he should to do.

No action then will no responsibility, this will be very sad for the community.

If this proposal can make more liquidity，why not try it?
Feed price has been locked,  there's no going back，the market fees still can pay back the debt slowly in the future, to buy cheap bts is more better to to buy the expensive.

[Digital Lucifer]

As in the past, I do *not* support using community funds for leverage.

Does that counts as vote/opinion of another Committee member - since you're one of them ?

[xeroc]

As in the past, I do *not* support using community funds for leverage.

[Digital Lucifer]

so that means we need another BSIP to set the threshold feed price for eternity, or it can be increased but not be lowered?

0.202 bitCNY/BTS is cheap even when the market price is 0.19, we can buy at 0.22bitCNY/BTS when market price go to 0.22 without pay additional price , but I think it's not hard to tell which price is better.

Man, I really feel compassion for you. You have become an addict to gambling and now you are trying to gamble with committee's account, under the exact same strategy that got your ass burned. It doesn't matter at this moment if your strategy works or not. You have lost any sense of ethics or truthfulness.

it is just like in 1971, President Nikson announced to give up the peg of USD on GOLD.

it is irrelevant to ethics or thuthufulness, it is relevant to the demand of economy.

if you are not able to understand, I do not have time to explain more at this moment.

Mr. Liu Jialing, If you want to take the funds, please create worker on your own name so you can take full responsibility for actions with those funds. Leave the committee owned funds out of the pitch.

This was a friendly(soft) suggestion.

Chee®s

This is proposed by cn-vote and Chinese investors. By the way, it is Chinese investors who are pouring money into BTS to support all sorts of spending.

Pouring money ? Some blocks with transactions that confirm that statement, please.

[Digital Lucifer]

so that means we need another BSIP to set the threshold feed price for eternity, or it can be increased but not be lowered?

0.202 bitCNY/BTS is cheap even when the market price is 0.19, we can buy at 0.22bitCNY/BTS when market price go to 0.22 without pay additional price , but I think it's not hard to tell which price is better.

Man, I really feel compassion for you. You have become an addict to gambling and now you are trying to gamble with committee's account, under the exact same strategy that got your ass burned. It doesn't matter at this moment if your strategy works or not. You have lost any sense of ethics or truthfulness.

it is just like in 1971, President Nikson announced to give up the peg of USD on GOLD.

it is irrelevant to ethics or thuthufulness, it is relevant to the demand of economy.

if you are not able to understand, I do not have time to explain more at this moment.

Mr. Liu Jialing, If you want to take the funds, please create worker on your own name so you can take full responsibility for actions with those funds. Leave the committee owned funds out of the pitch.

This was a friendly(soft) suggestion.

Chee®s

Mr. Digital Lucifer，If you are still stubbornly considering the bitcrab proposal is wrong, then investigate the community members' choices, hundreds of Chinese community members support bitcrab, and hundreds of millions of votes. Please respect the community, respect the votes, and respect those who work tirelessly for the development of BTS.
This was a friendly(soft) suggestion.
Digital Lucifer先生，如果您仍然顽固地认为Bitcrab提案是错误的，请调查社区成员的选择，数百名中国社区成员还有数亿票的票仓支持bitcrab。 请尊重社区，尊重选票，并尊重为BTS的发展做出不懈努力的人们。
这是一个友好的（软）建议。

Votes are available to anyone, and here all votes are counted. Will see how many hundred millions of votes are left once ZB is removed from equation as consensus and world wide laws are saying.

[Digital Lucifer]

Mr. Liu Jialing, If you want to take the funds, please create worker on your own name so you can take full responsibility for actions with those funds. Leave the committee owned funds out of the pitch.

This was a friendly(soft) suggestion.

Chee®s

I don't think these words were suitable.
These fund was operated by committees, even this proposal was voted in, every committe still has the responsibility to decide how to use these fund.
As a committee, he has the right and obligation to think how to use these fund, and every stakholder has the right and obligation to think how to use these fund, give a proposal and bid for votes.

If you opposed or didn‘t like this proposal，you can just give your reasons simply,  language attack or emotional expression can't help anything.

Committee is set of 11 different accounts that are all responsible for funds, not just 1 account with support of community.

It should be voted by committee members, not a community - since community has no legal responsibility for the actions they vote for (yet).

[binggo]

Mr. Liu Jialing, If you want to take the funds, please create worker on your own name so you can take full responsibility for actions with those funds. Leave the committee owned funds out of the pitch.

This was a friendly(soft) suggestion.

Chee®s

I don't think these words were suitable.
These fund was operated by committees, even this proposal was voted in, every committe still has the responsibility to decide how to use these fund.
As a committee, he has the right and obligation to think how to use these fund, and every stakholder has the right and obligation to think how to use these fund, give a proposal and bid for votes.

If you opposed or didn‘t like this proposal，you can just give your reasons simply,  language attack or emotional expression can't help anything.

[ljk424]

so that means we need another BSIP to set the threshold feed price for eternity, or it can be increased but not be lowered?

0.202 bitCNY/BTS is cheap even when the market price is 0.19, we can buy at 0.22bitCNY/BTS when market price go to 0.22 without pay additional price , but I think it's not hard to tell which price is better.

Man, I really feel compassion for you. You have become an addict to gambling and now you are trying to gamble with committee's account, under the exact same strategy that got your ass burned. It doesn't matter at this moment if your strategy works or not. You have lost any sense of ethics or truthfulness.

it is just like in 1971, President Nikson announced to give up the peg of USD on GOLD.

it is irrelevant to ethics or thuthufulness, it is relevant to the demand of economy.

if you are not able to understand, I do not have time to explain more at this moment.

Mr. Liu Jialing, If you want to take the funds, please create worker on your own name so you can take full responsibility for actions with those funds. Leave the committee owned funds out of the pitch.

This was a friendly(soft) suggestion.

Chee®s

Mr. Digital Lucifer，If you are still stubbornly considering the bitcrab proposal is wrong, then investigate the community members' choices, hundreds of Chinese community members support bitcrab, and hundreds of millions of votes. Please respect the community, respect the votes, and respect those who work tirelessly for the development of BTS.
This was a friendly(soft) suggestion.
Digital Lucifer先生，如果您仍然顽固地认为Bitcrab提案是错误的，请调查社区成员的选择，数百名中国社区成员还有数亿票的票仓支持bitcrab。 请尊重社区，尊重选票，并尊重为BTS的发展做出不懈努力的人们。
这是一个友好的（软）建议。

[finn-bts]

so that means we need another BSIP to set the threshold feed price for eternity, or it can be increased but not be lowered?

0.202 bitCNY/BTS is cheap even when the market price is 0.19, we can buy at 0.22bitCNY/BTS when market price go to 0.22 without pay additional price , but I think it's not hard to tell which price is better.

Man, I really feel compassion for you. You have become an addict to gambling and now you are trying to gamble with committee's account, under the exact same strategy that got your ass burned. It doesn't matter at this moment if your strategy works or not. You have lost any sense of ethics or truthfulness.

it is just like in 1971, President Nikson announced to give up the peg of USD on GOLD.

it is irrelevant to ethics or thuthufulness, it is relevant to the demand of economy.

if you are not able to understand, I do not have time to explain more at this moment.

Mr. Liu Jialing, If you want to take the funds, please create worker on your own name so you can take full responsibility for actions with those funds. Leave the committee owned funds out of the pitch.

This was a friendly(soft) suggestion.

Chee®s

This is proposed by cn-vote and Chinese investors. By the way, it is Chinese investors who are pouring money into BTS to support all sorts of spending.

[PTS中国]

MCR1.5对bitCNY的成本而言是长远的直降，对于抵押者也是重大利好，支持！至少我们可以参考DAI的1.5倍！

[Digital Lucifer]

so that means we need another BSIP to set the threshold feed price for eternity, or it can be increased but not be lowered?

0.202 bitCNY/BTS is cheap even when the market price is 0.19, we can buy at 0.22bitCNY/BTS when market price go to 0.22 without pay additional price , but I think it's not hard to tell which price is better.

Man, I really feel compassion for you. You have become an addict to gambling and now you are trying to gamble with committee's account, under the exact same strategy that got your ass burned. It doesn't matter at this moment if your strategy works or not. You have lost any sense of ethics or truthfulness.

it is just like in 1971, President Nikson announced to give up the peg of USD on GOLD.

it is irrelevant to ethics or thuthufulness, it is relevant to the demand of economy.

if you are not able to understand, I do not have time to explain more at this moment.

Mr. Liu Jialing, If you want to take the funds, please create worker on your own name so you can take full responsibility for actions with those funds. Leave the committee owned funds out of the pitch.

This was a friendly(soft) suggestion.

Chee®s

[小宁大大]

支持，通过回购减少BTS流通量绝对是长久之计！

[finn-bts]

I will support this proposal. Too much debate is meaningless. If you do not safeguard the interests of shareholders, who will pay your salary? Please make it clear that the premise that bitcny has value is that BTS has value.

[bitcrab]

so that means we need another BSIP to set the threshold feed price for eternity, or it can be increased but not be lowered?

0.202 bitCNY/BTS is cheap even when the market price is 0.19, we can buy at 0.22bitCNY/BTS when market price go to 0.22 without pay additional price , but I think it's not hard to tell which price is better.

Man, I really feel compassion for you. You have become an addict to gambling and now you are trying to gamble with committee's account, under the exact same strategy that got your ass burned. It doesn't matter at this moment if your strategy works or not. You have lost any sense of ethics or truthfulness.

it is just like in 1971, President Nikson announced to give up the peg of USD on GOLD.

it is irrelevant to ethics or thuthufulness, it is relevant to the demand of economy.

if you are not able to understand, I do not have time to explain more at this moment.

[blockchained]

so that means we need another BSIP to set the threshold feed price for eternity, or it can be increased but not be lowered?

0.202 bitCNY/BTS is cheap even when the market price is 0.19, we can buy at 0.22bitCNY/BTS when market price go to 0.22 without pay additional price , but I think it's not hard to tell which price is better.

Man, I really feel compassion for you. You have become an addict to gambling and now you are trying to gamble with committee's account, under the exact same strategy that got your ass burned. It doesn't matter at this moment if your strategy works or not. You have lost any sense of ethics or truthfulness.

[Sapiens]

so that means we need another BSIP to set the threshold feed price for eternity, or it can be increased but not be lowered?

0.202 bitCNY/BTS is cheap even when the market price is 0.19, we can buy at 0.22bitCNY/BTS when market price go to 0.22 without pay additional price , but I think it's not hard to tell which price is better.

Man, I really feel compassion for you. You have become an addict to gambling and now you are trying to gamble with committee's account, under the exact same strategy that got your ass burned. It doesn't matter at this moment if your strategy works or not. You have lost any sense of ethics or truthfulness.

[JohnR]

This is a good time to revisit the options on bitCNY.

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=28606.msg335626#msg335626

[bitcrab]

> but now, we have threshold feed price, which remove the problem, and now we can borrow with margin call price < threshold feed price without worrying margin call.

The threshold price is not set for eternity. See e. g. this proposal: https://github.com/bitshares/bsips/issues/244
If this gets accepted the committee debt posiition would instantly be margin called. Also note that the external price for BTS is less than 0.19 CNY whereas when selling CNY on the DEX you have to pay 0.202 CNY/BTS. In other words, the committee would lose more than 6% with this deal, even without BTS going down.

so that means we need another BSIP to set the threshold feed price for eternity, or it can be increased but not be lowered?

0.202 bitCNY/BTS is cheap even when the market price is 0.19, we can buy at 0.22bitCNY/BTS when market price go to 0.22 without pay additional price , but I think it's not hard to tell which price is better.

[bitcrab]

2. won't the funds be used at the market making contest?

I suggest the MM contest to create a worker to get funds. suppose the contest need 10M BTS, it's better that 10M BTS are released from worker and being bought back buy committee-account, than just releasing the 7M BTS in committee-account to market.

Just to clarify, the MM contest according to current proposed rules will need **up to** 1.8M BTS per month. Actually I would expect the real expense would be much less due to the strict rules. I don't know why you supposed it need 10M BTS.

1.8M per month means 10M in half a year, so it's not reluctant to suppose 10M, right?

and it's just to take a value as example to explain something. the same logic if suppose 5M or less.

[abit]

2. won't the funds be used at the market making contest?

I suggest the MM contest to create a worker to get funds. suppose the contest need 10M BTS, it's better that 10M BTS are released from worker and being bought back buy committee-account, than just releasing the 7M BTS in committee-account to market.

Just to clarify, the MM contest according to current proposed rules will need **up to** 1.8M BTS per month. Actually I would expect the real expense would be much less due to the strict rules. I don't know why you supposed it need 10M BTS.

[pc]

> but now, we have threshold feed price, which remove the problem, and now we can borrow with margin call price < threshold feed price without worrying margin call.

The threshold price is not set for eternity. See e. g. this proposal: https://github.com/bitshares/bsips/issues/244
If this gets accepted the committee debt posiition would instantly be margin called. Also note that the external price for BTS is less than 0.19 CNY whereas when selling CNY on the DEX you have to pay 0.202 CNY/BTS. In other words, the committee would lose more than 6% with this deal, even without BTS going down.

[yamtt]

A proposal is created to borrow 810K bitCNY with CR=1.61.

1.10.50600 | Expires: 28 Oct 09:59

Change committee-account bitCNY debt by 810,000.0000 bitCNY and collateral by 5,927,727.27273 BTS

borrowing smartcoin to buy back BTS is one method to make the accumulated funds in committee-account to contribute to the ecosystem.

in the past, this method is always opposed because no one know which margin call price is safe enough.

but now, we have threshold feed price, which remove the problem, and now we can borrow with margin call price < threshold feed price without worrying margin call.

if we use the initial 5.96M BTS to continue the borrow and buy back loop, finally committee-account can buy more than 10M BTS , not a very small volume. this worth doing at current market status.

however, there are some other questions need to answer:

1.bitCNY has a almost 10% devaluation, will this operation release more bitCNY to markets and make even more serious devaluation?

bitCNY devaluated because the market price is lower than the threshold feed price, the buying back operation intended to absorb more BTS liquidity from market, not to pull up the price, releasing of several millions of bitCNY do not have obvious impact on bitCNY devaluation.

the devaluation will end after the market price go above 0.22CNY, if we begin the operation after that moment, we will pay higher price in the trading, so now it is better to begin the operation just now.

2. won't the funds be used at the market making contest?

I suggest the MM contest to create a worker to get funds. suppose the contest need 10M BTS, it's better that 10M BTS are released from worker and being bought back buy committee-account, than just releasing the 7M BTS in committee-account to market.

Committee members, please check this proposal and vote according to your opinion.

Reasonable support for repurchase and use of workers to engage in trading contests

有理有据 支持回购 和用worker来搞交易大赛

[bitcrab]

A proposal is created to borrow 810K bitCNY with CR=1.61.

1.10.50600 | Expires: 28 Oct 09:59

Change committee-account bitCNY debt by 810,000.0000 bitCNY and collateral by 5,927,727.27273 BTS

borrowing smartcoin to buy back BTS is one method to make the accumulated funds in committee-account to contribute to the ecosystem.

in the past, this method is always opposed because no one know which margin call price is safe enough.

but now, we have threshold feed price, which remove the problem, and now we can borrow with margin call price < threshold feed price without worrying margin call.

if we use the initial 5.96M BTS to continue the borrow and buy back loop, finally committee-account can buy more than 10M BTS , not a very small volume. this worth doing at current market status.

however, there are some other questions need to answer:

1.bitCNY has a almost 10% devaluation, will this operation release more bitCNY to markets and make even more serious devaluation?

bitCNY devaluated because the market price is lower than the threshold feed price, the buying back operation intended to absorb more BTS liquidity from market, not to pull up the price, releasing of several millions of bitCNY do not have obvious impact on bitCNY devaluation.

the devaluation will end after the market price go above 0.22CNY, if we begin the operation after that moment, we will pay higher price in the trading, so now it is better to begin the operation just now.

2. won't the funds be used at the market making contest?

I suggest the MM contest to create a worker to get funds. suppose the contest need 10M BTS, it's better that 10M BTS are released from worker and being bought back buy committee-account, than just releasing the 7M BTS in committee-account to market.

Committee members, please check this proposal and vote according to your opinion.

[bitcrab]

A new proposal is created to borrow 300K CNY, which will be used to buy back BTS.

1.10.48435 | Expires: 1 Oct 16:38
bitcrab created a proposal:
Change committee-account bitCNY debt by 300,000.0000 bitCNY and collateral by 4,000,000.00000 BTS, margin call price = 0.12CNY

With the accumulation of BTS in committee-account, we need to consider how to use it to contribute most to the ecosystem.

now almost 6M BTS in committee-account, when BSIP74 is active, more BTS will come as the margin call fee, community and committee has vetoed the idea to burn the accumulated BTS, borrowing smartcoin and buy back BTS is one good selection when the price is at bottom.

history shows that the current BTS price is at bottom

the lowest price at 7th Dec 2018 - 0.2175CNY is also the lowest price in more than 2 years. the last time BTS hits this price was at 7th, May, 2017.

after the price fell across 0.55CNY at Nov, 2018, in long time BTS price moves in a bound pattern, now the price is at 0.236CNY, only 10% above the bottom price.

it's reasonable to regard 0.2175CNY as a historical bottom price and this moment is a good time to buy back BTS.




 

risk control consideration:

1. margin call price should not be higher than GS price, otherwise all the income will be used to reduce the margin call price.
2. margin call price should not be higher than 0.2175CNY, which is the price bottom in the last 2.5 years.

even in the worst case that BTS price fall below 0.12CNY, hundreds of millions of collateralized BTS will be margin called, it will be a big disaster, the margin call of this millions of BTS do not add much to the disaster, it's acceptable.

and I'd like to reminder, to borrow and release bitCNY to the market at enough low margin call price can reduce the possibility that BTS price fall below the bottom price.

hope committee members can check and support this proposal.

 

[bitcrab]

as there are already 9175 bitUSD in committee-account, now created a proposal to borrow 10000bitUSD due to request of some committee members:

1.10.48190 | Expires: 27 Sep 16:26
bitcrab created a proposal:
Change committee-account bitUSD debt by 10,000.0000 bitUSD and collateral by 1,500,000.00000 BTS, margin call price = 0.01USD.

the borrowed 10K bitUSD will be used to close the debt position in committee-usdoperator and get the 1.01M BTS back to committee-account.

hope committee members can check.

[bitcrab]

I created a proposal 1.10.47901 to borrow 20K bitUSD with collateralizing 2M BTS, margin call price = 0.015USD, far below GS price. hope committee members can check.

the intention is to use the borrowed bitUSD to close the debt position of committee-usdoperator to remove the margin call risk, and get the 1.01M BTS back to committee-account.

It is not a good selection for committee-account to reject any debt position management.

when there is big amount of BTS accumulated in committee-account, if these BTS just stay there, it will not help the ecosystem and is a waste.

if we borrow some amount of smartcoin with taking good care of the risk, and use the borrowed smartcoin to buy back BTS in good price, it will greatly support the smartcoin ecosystem.

committee-account is suitable to do so as it has continuous smartcoin income.

to control the risk, I suggest a principle for managing debt position:

1. margin call price should not be higher than GS price, otherwise all the income will be used to reduce the margin call price.
2. margin call price should not be higher than 0.03 price, which is the price bottom in the last 1.5 years.

yes, even so it is also possible that the margin call will happen, but if the feed price go below 0.015USD, hundreds of millions of BTS collaterals are already margin called, it is a disaster, the margin call of millions of committee BTS do not make the things much worse.

but the "borrowing and buy back BTS" activity can help to reduce the possibility of BTS price go below 0.015USD, although the possibility is already very low.

I hope everyone can also consider the worker issue, "do not support any big workers when BTS price is under 0.3CNY" is close to a consensus in China community, if we want a healthy BTS ecosystem, we need to try to find ways to sustain BTS price, for example, charge margin call trading to add system income to support the BTS buy back.

and "borrowing and buy back BTS" is also part of the efforts.

[bitcrab]

The BBF can borrow 600K bitcny itself,  and the market fee will not buy back bts from market and will pay back the BBF debt as now market price(0.24bitcny) , when the BBF this debt was closed with 600K bitcny from the market feed, the BBF must send 2.5M BTS to committee-account.
Something like Forward Contract.

too complex, it will cost 5 months for committee-account to collect 600k bitCNY fee. I believe BBF prefer to sell in the market instead of waiting for 5 months.

committee-account is more suitable in managing a debt position than others as it has continuous smartcoin income.

it's good if BBF can directly pay BTS as salary to workers, however, I believe we still need to discuss the possibility and sense for committee-account to manage a debt position.

[binggo]

They can trade:
bitcny to QC in ZB
bitcny to CNC in AEX, which publish in BTS chain.
The better way is which trade bitcny to GDEX.USDT, maybe can find someone to help this deal.

Now pay 600K bitcny to get 2.5M BTS or more, can provent these bts dump to the market. We have already see what have happened by AVG2907 dumping the market with 2M BTS.
After get these 2.5M BTS, the market fee can pay back these debt until close this position.

OR,

The BBF can borrow 600K bitcny itself,  and the market fee will not buy back bts from market and will pay back the BBF debt as now market price(0.24bitcny) , when the BBF this debt was closed with 600K bitcny from the market fee, the BBF must send 2.5M BTS to committee-account.
Something like Forward Contract.

[Bangzi]

* BBF wants to pay bitCNY to workers according to the terms defined in the workers, the biggest part is for the core dev worker.

If BBF didn't accept the solution because they want to follow what is written in black and white, then just do an amendment WP to change the payout term from BitCNY to BTS. Voted in the WP for 7 days then consider community agree to change the term.

[abit]

If the committee to create debt positions, from past experience, we simply don't know what price is safe. When OMO was buying BTS at 1.05 CNY, people didn't think there would be a day BTS price could fall to 0.22 CNY. Personally I don't want to take the same risk again.

The current issue is:
* BBF wants to pay bitCNY to workers according to the terms defined in the workers, the biggest part is for the core dev worker.
* BBF now has only BTS.
* BBF doesn't want to sell BTS directly to the market for bitCNY now, because the continuous selling done before lead to criticisms, BBF wants to mitigate the criticisms.

The obvious solution for BBF is to pay BTS directly to the workers if the workers accept BTS. AFAIK all the core team members agree to be paid in BTS under certain conditions, E.G. got paid soon enough after issued an invoice to avoid taxing issues.

It seems BBF didn't accept this solution.

By the way, IMHO the predefined terms -- paying out bitCNY -- don't make much sense if the people getting bitCNY don't know how to efficiently use it, because bitCNY is actually not convenient enough for most of people working for the workers, because most of them don't live in China so bitCNY even fiat CNY is useless for them.

* The most common path for them to exchange bitCNY to local fiat for daily expense is to buy BTS with bitCNY in DEX then sell BTS for BTC in CEX's, then sell BTC for fiat; the step selling BTS for BTC would suppress BTS price and lead to margin calls in the DEX which led to criticisms. The question is, if people got bitCNY, they always sell for BTS, why not give them BTS in the first place?

* An option is to buy an IOU BTC (e.g. OPEN.BTC, GDEX.BTC or etc) with bitCNY in the DEX, but the market depths are low.

* Another option is to exchange bitCNY to BTC via blocktrades, but exchange rate provided by blocktrades is usually worse.

* Actually there is another good path: selling bitCNY for QC in zb.cn at almost 1:1, they buy BTC or whatever with QC there. This won't affect BTS price in CEX. But not many people know this.

[bitcrab]

proposal 1.10.47576:
Change committee-account bitCNY debt by 500,000.0000 bitCNY and collateral by 5,762,081.78439 BTS
hope committee members can check.

[Crypto Kong]

This is, for once, starting to sound like an operation that makes sense. Bitcrabs suggested call price of 0.1 sounds reasonable, we should also agree a target price at which efforts should be made to lower the call price. For example, if price hits 0.15 all available funds are used to lower call price.

If we can avoid BBF selling BTS, we should.

[binggo]

Why not let BBF pay the 2.5M BTS to committee-account, then the latter borrow 600K CNY with 8.27M BTS and margin call price=0.116 CNY(less than current GS price), and pay back to BBF?

I find this a good suggestion, joint effort and using community funds as collateral for community approved payments.

if the demand is still there, I feel it can be operated like this:

1.committee-account borrow 500K bitCNY with putting all the BTS balance into collateral.(5.77MBTS, margin call price=0.1384CNY)
2.committee-account claim 50K bitCNY fee.
2.committee-account trade 600K bitCNY with BBF account with the "barter proposal" to get BTS in market price.

let's do it?

https://workers.bitshares.foundation/201902-bitshares-core
31-36 weeks （07/28/2019-09/14/2019）bill ：598.55461K bitcny

Now committee-account has 5,778,869.69868 bts and 118,617.8576 bitcny，unclaim market fee 50,069.3515 bitCNY.

OK, maybe can do it, and maybe BBF need give 2.6M bts to committee-account.

[bitcrab]

Why not let BBF pay the 2.5M BTS to committee-account, then the latter borrow 600K CNY with 8.27M BTS and margin call price=0.116 CNY(less than current GS price), and pay back to BBF?

I find this a good suggestion, joint effort and using community funds as collateral for community approved payments.

if the demand is still there, I feel it can be operated like this:

1.committee-account borrow 500K bitCNY with putting all the BTS balance into collateral.(5.77MBTS, margin call price=0.1384CNY)
2.committee-account claim 50K bitCNY fee.
2.committee-account trade 600K bitCNY with BBF account with the "barter proposal" to get BTS in market price.

let's do it?

[bitProfessor]

Why not let BBF pay the 2.5M BTS to committee-account, then the latter borrow 600K CNY with 8.27M BTS and margin call price=0.116 CNY(less than current GS price), and pay back to BBF?

I find this a good suggestion, joint effort and using community funds as collateral for community approved payments.

It looks good. Need to think about it.

[bitcrab]

Why not let BBF pay the 2.5M BTS to committee-account, then the latter borrow 600K CNY with 8.27M BTS and margin call price=0.116 CNY(less than current GS price), and pay back to BBF?

I find this a good suggestion, joint effort and using community funds as collateral for community approved payments.

would have to be a separate account for transparency reasons as unlocked collateral (as market fees pay back the loan) should be burned back to the chain

why burn?

it's OK to just operate in committee-account, the BTS is bought by committee-account and can be just kept in committee-account, and can be sold when BTS price is high enough.

[clockwork]

Why not let BBF pay the 2.5M BTS to committee-account, then the latter borrow 600K CNY with 8.27M BTS and margin call price=0.116 CNY(less than current GS price), and pay back to BBF?

I find this a good suggestion, joint effort and using community funds as collateral for community approved payments.

would have to be a separate account for transparency reasons as unlocked collateral (as market fees pay back the loan) should be burned back to the chain

[sschiessl]

Why not let BBF pay the 2.5M BTS to committee-account, then the latter borrow 600K CNY with 8.27M BTS and margin call price=0.116 CNY(less than current GS price), and pay back to BBF?

I find this a good suggestion, joint effort and using community funds as collateral for community approved payments.

[binggo]

I also would like to talk the possibility of managing a debt position. even I am aware that almost everyone try to avoid it.

say, now with 5.77M BTS, it we  set margin call price = 0.1CNY, 460K bitCNY can be borrowed.

good to buy back BTS with these bitCNY?

as there are continuous bitCNY fee income to committee-account, the risk is very very low.

surely 5.77M BTS is not so much, either to use it will give little impact, but after BSIP74 is implemented, more BTS will come into committee-account, if there are tens or even hundreds of MBTS in committee-account, shall we still leave them there without using them?

On one hand many workers are voted down as the ecosystem is so weak, OTOH why we do not use the accumulated BTS to give some support to the ecosystem?

as I know recently BBF want to sell BTS to get 600K CNY to pay worker salary, suppose price=0.24CNY, need 2.5MBTS.

Why not let BBF pay the 2.5M BTS to committee-account, then the latter borrow 600K CNY with 8.27M BTS and margin call price=0.116 CNY(less than current GS price), and pay back to BBF?
 
just talk.

BBF can give all the 25M BTS to committee-account，then the committee-account  borrow 2M CNY first for BBF salary，the fee can pay back the debt slowly.

When price go up high enough, committee-account just need to sell little bts to pay back the debt, it is very suitable for now and BBF didn't need to realease so much bts to the market.

1 month need about 600K bitcny.
9，10，11，12.


and notice BBF, if the worker get bitcny, every bitcny if they want to withdraw, please let them use bitcny to buy GDEX.BTC or OPEN.BTC.... forbid to use bitcny buy bts in DEX，then dump BTS in poloniex or other CEX.

[bitcrab]

I also would like to talk the possibility of managing a debt position. even I am aware that almost everyone try to avoid it.

say, now with 5.77M BTS, it we  set margin call price = 0.1CNY, 460K bitCNY can be borrowed.

good to buy back BTS with these bitCNY?

as there are continuous bitCNY fee income to committee-account, the risk is very very low.

surely 5.77M BTS is not so much, either to use it will give little impact, but after BSIP74 is implemented, more BTS will come into committee-account, if there are tens or even hundreds of MBTS in committee-account, shall we still leave them there without using them?

On one hand many workers are voted down as the ecosystem is so weak, OTOH why we do not use the accumulated BTS to give some support to the ecosystem?

as I know recently BBF want to sell BTS to get 600K CNY to pay worker salary, suppose price=0.24CNY, need 2.5MBTS.

Why not let BBF pay the 2.5M BTS to committee-account, then the latter borrow 600K CNY with 8.27M BTS and margin call price=0.116 CNY(less than current GS price), and pay back to BBF?
 
just talk.

[bitcrab]

We need to make comparison before determine BTS price is cheap or expensive. Below is simple and effective comparison method since BTS aim to surpass BTC.

If BTS Market Cap more than BTC Market Cap, then is Expensive.
If BTS Market Cap less than BTC Market Cap, then is Cheap.

emm, good, so you mean BTS is always cheap since its birth, never be expensive up to now.

[Bangzi]

We need to make comparison before determine BTS price is cheap or expensive. Below is simple and effective comparison method since BTS aim to surpass BTC.

If BTS Market Cap more than BTC Market Cap, then is Expensive.
If BTS Market Cap less than BTC Market Cap, then is Cheap.

[binggo]

We just need to buy back BTS for now.

Other usages maybe we need a long time to think about.

[bitcrab]

committee-account has bought back BTS with the accumulated bitCNY for weeks.

Burning BTS has not got enough support and can be ignored.

Creating and managing a debt position is not supported up to now.

So seems what committee-account can do in this area is just "buy while cheap and sell while expensive".

Even so, there are also topics need to discuss, like what price is cheap and what price is expense, and others.

This thread is to provide a place to discuss the relevant topics.