Author Topic: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)  (Read 1987 times)

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Offline blockchained

Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2020, 12:38:31 pm »
kindly reminding: after the launch of BTS4.0, all the gateway assets need to share market fee to system, either participate the MM contest or not.
In this case, you'll have probably only your gateway, and bitshares ranked 110+ or something. I heard more and more people and services talking about the fork, also saw some code already. What you will do with double taxation when it will be nothing to taxate?



After observing the previous MM contest we've decided to not legitimize money-grabbing from the reserve pool.


RuDEX will not participate in the next MM contest please exclude our platform from this list

« Last Edit: May 24, 2020, 12:54:09 pm by blockchained »

Offline bitcrab

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Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2020, 02:05:36 pm »
kindly reminding: after the launch of BTS4.0, all the gateway assets need to share market fee to system, either participate the MM contest or not.
In this case, you'll have probably only your gateway, and bitshares ranked 110+ or something. I heard more and more people and services talking about the fork, also saw some code already. What you will do with double taxation when it will be nothing to taxate?



After observing the previous MM contest we've decided to not legitimize money-grabbing from the reserve pool.


RuDEX will not participate in the next MM contest please exclude our platform from this list

 A: a gov provide poor public service, with low tax rate.
 B: a gov provide high quality public service, with higher tax rate.

it is possible that B is better than A. we need to try.

MM is a service that any exchange need, MM contest is a mechanism that distributing the MM task, I am sad that you call it "money-grabbing", however, I believe that this mechanism will contribute greatly to BTS with continuous update and optimization.

 
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Offline Thul3

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Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2020, 02:16:23 pm »
What we need first is getting trust back from our members so they are willing to deposit again.
Currently all i see is people leaving or getting silent and stupid ideas we had over the last 2 years to growth based on adjusting parameters.

Where is the real user base growth everyone is looking for the past 2 years ?

You think without development of demanded features there will be any growth ?
You think taxation of gateways will bring growth to bitshares ?

People are tired about that nonsense and not willing anymore to listen to it anymore.They accept now only real growth.
Bitshares already wasted enough time with no real progress.


I'm asking myself if it was a good action from my side to protect a big part of chinese community to not get rekkt when reading their BS comments to foreigners to buy more BTS to stop corruption on bitshares.
Your idealogy you talked with digital lucifer i won't even comment here.
All i can say people prefer to leave or fork bitshares rather than staying on a centralized bitshares with no key feature development which you represent and support.

All i see is 3 main chinese people who implemented massive corruption and dictatorship on bitshares making inside deals,kicking out long term witnesses who provided expensive infra to bitshares in exchange to witnesses who don't provide anything,scam workers,abusing and destroment of foreign group chats,centralization of bitshares ,destroying key values from bitshares token over committee destroying confidence into committee and bitassets.
If thats your path to get bitshares great again i doubt it will work.

It's sad to see that such a great project gets destroyed because of this kind of behavior and a community splitted because of the ignorance of one part about the other part.
People are tired to fight the endless war against this ignorance and corruption after such a long time.

As you can see less and less people are participating in bitshares and providing endless hours for no compensation with frustating no results.

Just have a look at the small exchange nash.
They had on average $4k volume per day.It was a dead exchange.After implementing non custodial trading their volume exploded on average to arround $350k.
That is real growth by providing demended features and not what bitshares is playing the last 2 years.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2020, 02:47:31 pm by Thul3 »

Offline bitcrab

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Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2020, 03:01:35 pm »
we adjust parameters because they need adjustment, no one think we can get user base growth only by parameter adjustment.

Yes, increase system income is important for growth of Bitshares.

the core prelude worker is on going, and after that will be subsequent core worker. If you just refuse to accept them, I don't know what to say.

you mentioned what you see is just what you guess, there's no 3 Chinese people that can make decision, even in China community it is not easy to reach consensus, I understand there's problems, but if you just like blaming, not try to understand each other, I don't know what to say.
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Offline binggo

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Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #19 on: May 24, 2020, 03:07:48 pm »
Quote

 A: a gov provide poor public service, with low tax rate.
 B: a gov provide high quality public service, with higher tax rate.

it is possible that B is better than A. we need to try.

MM is a service that any exchange need, MM contest is a mechanism that distributing the MM task, I am sad that you call it "money-grabbing", however, I believe that this mechanism will contribute greatly to BTS with continuous update and optimization.

 

You gave a stupid example, and you still didn't know what bts it is, you are confusing bts and gateway.

The gateway want to do what is their freedom, bts didn't have any right to ask them to do what, they can do the thing what they think is right and suitable, this is their business.

Bts is just a service provider, it charges the network fees for its service, when bts want to charge the market fees from gateway, then bts cross over the line.

MM is not the bts needed, it can't make bts greater or better.

If the mechanism is so good, why GDEX didn't use it in GDEX in the past few years? it seems the GDP have been failed.

Offline R

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Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2020, 05:02:30 pm »
Quote
bitAssets include bitCNY, bitUSD

Why include known scam coins in this? Reject.

Offline bitcrab

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Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #21 on: May 25, 2020, 03:22:34 am »
You gave a stupid example, and you still didn't know what bts it is, you are confusing bts and gateway.

The gateway want to do what is their freedom, bts didn't have any right to ask them to do what, they can do the thing what they think is right and suitable, this is their business.

Bts is just a service provider, it charges the network fees for its service, when bts want to charge the market fees from gateway, then bts cross over the line.

MM is not the bts needed, it can't make bts greater or better.

If the mechanism is so good, why GDEX didn't use it in GDEX in the past few years? it seems the GDP have been failed.

if one people decided to fight against one thing or one person, he can always find excuse.

BSIP86 is on the way of development, it will be launched in recent future, after finishing all necessary procedure, following the DPoS principle.

Gateways are not forced to participate the MM contest, but BSIP86 will apply for all.

don't always talk as you are the proxy of BTS.

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Offline binggo

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Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #22 on: May 25, 2020, 05:09:24 am »
You gave a stupid example, and you still didn't know what bts it is, you are confusing bts and gateway.

The gateway want to do what is their freedom, bts didn't have any right to ask them to do what, they can do the thing what they think is right and suitable, this is their business.

Bts is just a service provider, it charges the network fees for its service, when bts want to charge the market fees from gateway, then bts cross over the line.

MM is not the bts needed, it can't make bts greater or better.

If the mechanism is so good, why GDEX didn't use it in GDEX in the past few years? it seems the GDP have been failed.

if one people decided to fight against one thing or one person, he can always find excuse.

BSIP86 is on the way of development, it will be launched in recent future, after finishing all necessary procedure, following the DPoS principle.

Gateways are not forced to participate the MM contest, but BSIP86 will apply for all.

don't always talk as you are the proxy of BTS.

What you act just like a kid, never to recognize his failure.

When BSIP86 bring the lawsuit to BTS, i hope you can come out to face it and don't say it is the decision of bts holder.

I do what is my freedom, but you did something to bts, i have the right to supervise.

Go to get the legal counsel for BSIP86 from them,if you or them still a committee of BTS, don't act like a kid, use your head!

https://www.bitshares.foundation/workers/2020-01-bitshares-legal-representative

Offline blockchained

Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #23 on: May 25, 2020, 12:15:57 pm »
Gateways are not forced to participate the MM contest, but BSIP86 will apply for all.

not for all, just for you

Ol- gone, bitspark - gone, cryptobridge - gone, deex - gone, easydex - gone, escodex - gone, etc. You haven't asked any 1 gateway about these changes beside yourself.

Ask the Chinese community are they ready to stay on this chain by themself with no foreigners? Is it worth it?

We already start looking for an alternative platform to migrate our service if these updates will pass (we love bitshares as an instrument and we've helped to develop and popularise it in our community but we do not agree with this way for bitshares) anyway our main trades between our own pairs. We use bitshares as a matching engine and we don't want to be a double-taxed, but we already have a loyal community of traders that will leave with us. Bitshares a long time ago lost the race for only dex engine in the crypto space. So you will be monopolist and you will control the budget that worthless on a platform that nobody uses and nobody interested especially when bitshares loose top-100 positions. For sure you know a statistic and you know how bad this statistic.

Look at ALL your MM proposals and where they lead us in the end, I don't think that it is possible to find something besides failure. If I'm wrong please show me the result of the previous MM contest or what a result you have of previous fee managing from the bitAssets?

 Greed is a bad advisor, stupid greed especially 
« Last Edit: May 25, 2020, 01:36:05 pm by blockchained »

Offline bench

Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #24 on: May 25, 2020, 01:28:42 pm »
it's easy to call bitCNY and bitUSD scamcoin, it's difficult to make BTS grow up and resume bitCNY and bitUSD.

Yes, it is very easy to say:
- because borrower did not use the chance to pay their debt back, when bitUSD/bitCNY has a huge discount.
- because market fees where not used to finance the reserve pool or to support development.
- because my suggestion to lower feed price threshold every day by 0.5%, is still not implemented.
- because we have with HONEST.Assets a working alternative.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2020, 02:48:19 pm by bench »
Be part of the change and vote for the bitshares-vision proxy!

Offline EuropaSH

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Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #25 on: May 25, 2020, 02:44:40 pm »
We use other mechanisms to encourage traders. Our model is Staking https://xbts.io/smart-holder . Staking Program on the XBTS exchange has been working for 2 years. Also, our traders earn cryptocurrency by participating in promotions, games and other activities. This attracts new users to the exchange and the entire ecosystem.

seems the volume is small yet?
kindly reminding: after the launch of BTS4.0, all the gateway assets need to share market fee to system, either participate the MM contest or not.


Can you tell us more about double tax? And who will pay? - All gateways that work on Bitshares, including your gateway. All payment systems such as PalmPay? As well as coins that are issued to Bitshares as an asset that management their business, for example, Evraz or CloudCoin (the original cloudcoin is not a blockchain, but they have an asset in Bitshares).

What opportunities will appear in the Bitshares after the introduction of a double tax?

What are the benefits of gateways that work on Bitshares?
XBTS make ads for Bitshares, do services and games in which we add BTS, etc.

For all the time that we have been working for Bitshares, and this is 2 years, the system has not had any advertising campaigns. Several conferences were held, but did they give a result? At the same time, the cost of these conferences was very high.

As you remember, last year there was a wave of mass closure of exchanges for various reasons, this greatly affected the reputation of Bitshares and those exchanges that continued to work well.

The increase in the cost of creating an asset, especially in times of crisis, complicates the listing process and makes it more expensive, which significantly reduces the opportunities for new projects. Many choose Waves dex as an alternative or go to other exchanges.

Based on the concept of the work of the workers, there is a question:
Why do Bitshares still lack a beautiful adaptive interface? The interface  has been paid, and done, why is it unavailable? Maybe it’s worth considering the option of returning funds from workers who did not fulfill what they promised?
And why were the worker proposal completed if the work was not completed?

Now you want to introduce an additional tax on the gateways that work and bring profit to the system. Each gateway has its own vision of development, gateways are not slaves of the blockchain. Gateways are partners of the blockchain.

Alternative solution:
Why waste time updating the core and introducing taxation if there is a solution for everyone. Raise the fee in the network to 5 BTS per action and the network profit will be 5 times higher.

If you decide to only tax the gateways, then the gateways should be in the witnesses, the gateways will return the BTS back to the blockchain and continue to develop.
XBTS DEX EXCHANGE FOR TRADERS AND GAMERS https://xbts.io

Offline bitcrab

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Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #26 on: May 25, 2020, 04:10:01 pm »

Can you tell us more about double tax? And who will pay? - All gateways that work on Bitshares, including your gateway. All payment systems such as PalmPay? As well as coins that are issued to Bitshares as an asset that management their business, for example, Evraz or CloudCoin (the original cloudcoin is not a blockchain, but they have an asset in Bitshares).

What opportunities will appear in the Bitshares after the introduction of a double tax?

What are the benefits of gateways that work on Bitshares?
XBTS make ads for Bitshares, do services and games in which we add BTS, etc.

For all the time that we have been working for Bitshares, and this is 2 years, the system has not had any advertising campaigns. Several conferences were held, but did they give a result? At the same time, the cost of these conferences was very high.

As you remember, last year there was a wave of mass closure of exchanges for various reasons, this greatly affected the reputation of Bitshares and those exchanges that continued to work well.

The increase in the cost of creating an asset, especially in times of crisis, complicates the listing process and makes it more expensive, which significantly reduces the opportunities for new projects. Many choose Waves dex as an alternative or go to other exchanges.

Based on the concept of the work of the workers, there is a question:
Why do Bitshares still lack a beautiful adaptive interface? The interface  has been paid, and done, why is it unavailable? Maybe it’s worth considering the option of returning funds from workers who did not fulfill what they promised?
And why were the worker proposal completed if the work was not completed?

Now you want to introduce an additional tax on the gateways that work and bring profit to the system. Each gateway has its own vision of development, gateways are not slaves of the blockchain. Gateways are partners of the blockchain.

Alternative solution:
Why waste time updating the core and introducing taxation if there is a solution for everyone. Raise the fee in the network to 5 BTS per action and the network profit will be 5 times higher.

If you decide to only tax the gateways, then the gateways should be in the witnesses, the gateways will return the BTS back to the blockchain and continue to develop.

It is not "only tax gateways", BSIP86 will "tax" all UIAs, and it is not "I decide", BSIP86 is the result of a long discussion, as a gateway founder at first I am against this idea, but step by step I accept the idea from abit and some other people, I become agree that charging a percent fee from UIA market fee will be good to build a great ecosystem.  the "tax" can be considered as the fee for utilizing the DEX infrastructure.
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Offline blockchained

Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #27 on: May 25, 2020, 04:35:41 pm »
BSIP86 is the result of a long discussion
name 1 more gateway who participated in this discussion besides you?
With what businesses that operate on top of bitshares you discussed it in "a long discussion"? who are they? I'm really curious

a percent fee from UIA market fee will be good to build a great ecosystem
it would be the last nail in the coffin. The first one was also YOURS bsip42 from what began all this mess


the "tax" can be considered as the fee for utilizing the DEX infrastructure
We already paying blockchain fees for utilizing the DEX infrastructure, so it is just double taxation for the businesses, It obvious that you don't care about some private tokens like "ZALUPA", you couldn't get any profit from this

Who will manage the taxation fund?
Who will get money for the management of this fund?

It is a rhetorical question because everyone in the community knows that it will be your or members associated with you, so tell me more about how you were against this bsip 

Community well remember the SPRING thing or committee-cnytrader operations, do you have the same brilliant plans for taxation funds?
« Last Edit: May 25, 2020, 07:56:23 pm by blockchained »

Offline bitcrab

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Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #28 on: May 27, 2020, 10:48:13 am »

the "tax" can be considered as the fee for utilizing the DEX infrastructure
We already paying blockchain fees for utilizing the DEX infrastructure, so it is just double taxation for the businesses, It obvious that you don't care about some private tokens like "ZALUPA", you couldn't get any profit from this

Who will manage the taxation fund?
Who will get money for the management of this fund?

It is a rhetorical question because everyone in the community knows that it will be your or members associated with you, so tell me more about how you were against this bsip 

Community well remember the SPRING thing or committee-cnytrader operations, do you have the same brilliant plans for taxation funds?

after the launching of 4.0, the BSIP86 parameter will be determined by voting, I agree that the community need be careful/conservative on this, if finally the voting decided to set the rate to 0, market fee will not be shared.

however in my view, it's good that gateway pay some further fee and the platform provide some further public service, GDEX has bought MM service from providers, it's expensive and not so satisfactory, the MM contest actually provide good service and is potential to be better, when MM contest helps GDEX, GDEX will contribute to community with better depth, more active trading and also more system income, the rules will be continuously updated to make it more easy for voters to estimate how it works well enough.

 
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Offline Thul3

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Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #29 on: May 27, 2020, 11:17:17 am »
This discussion is useless and more important outdated.
You are hitting a dead horse.


We need non custodial wallets.Everything else will come from itself once you give people what they demand.

Real price feed and security for bitassets owner would be the next step to get back attention to bitassets.

You however want based on the chat logs centralization,full AML and KYC,worst country location for bitshares company slovenia/thailand and stick to gateways (your own business)which lost majority of trust from members.

Once you have these done update dexbot for mirrored offers and create a team like every other big exchange is doing it to tap liquidity from other big exchanges to their own.
A nice example is poloniex on BTS/BTC.
They basicly have no own liquidity but you always have 2-4 BTC buy and sell orders near price.Once somebody sells or buys something poloniex redistributes instantly the order through multiple exchanges.

 
« Last Edit: May 27, 2020, 11:29:21 am by Thul3 »