Author Topic: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)  (Read 1988 times)

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Offline bitcrab

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BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« on: May 20, 2020, 09:24:12 am »
This is a proposal which mainly focus on the update of the MM contest rules, however it is not only relevant to this, it try to build an economic model for BTS-DEX, to encourage users to contribute valuable transactions to the ecosystem, activate trading and promote the ecosystem value.

At the time that the MM contest paused, we observed that the BTS-DEX become more cold/desolate than the contest is active, it easy to understand, in any exchange in the world Market Making is a service that cannot be ignored, That’s why we try to optimize the MM contest rules and hope it can get enough support from the community.

The proposal will be discussed sufficiently and then be put into BSIP/BAIP poll voting, it will be executed if it is authorized by the voting.

On one hand, this proposal continuously enhance the platform token feature of BTS, enhance the contribution to system income from various assets, and the subsequent BTS buyback and burning.  On the other hand, this proposal will update the MM contest rules and rename it as “ordering mining” as one important part of the BTS-DEX economic model, BTS/bitAssets pairs group will be added in, reward on one pair will depend on the market fee income that was contributed from this pair to the system, the infrastructure will include several parameters which can be adjusted  to fit the business status, the gateway assets which are included in the ordering mining will be forced to pay part of the market fee to system before BTS 4.0 launching as a must for being listed in. All these update is to build a market-oriented selection and cultivation  mechanism, to make the competent pairs to stand out in a fair environment, and feed back to the system after growing up. The 3 trading pair groups just form a trading triangle, much trading chance will come out there if the market making really help.

Daily system income include all the BTS fees and the market fee share of the ordering mining listed gateway assets that were collected to committee-account, counted in BTS. All the funds that were used as rewards of for burning comes from committee-account, as current balance or future income.

#Ordering Mining
Ordering Mining involve 3 categories of assets which are BTS, bitAssets and Gateway assets.
bitAssets include bitCNY, bitUSD,bitEUR,bitRUBLE.
Gateway assets involve the according gateway assets of main crypto currencies include BTC, USDT, ETH and EOS, the organizer demand the gateway to guarantee the in time deposit and withdraw service with quick support while necessary, and provide the proof of real asset. Now the listed gateway asset include:

RUDEX.BTC https://audit.rudex.org/
GDEX.BTC https://www.gdex.io/noticeAssets
XBTSX.BTC https://xbts.io/audit

GDEX.USDT https://www.gdex.io/noticeAssets
RUDEX.USDT https://audit.rudex.org/
XBTSX.USDT https://xbts.io/audit

RUDEX.ETH https://audit.rudex.org/
GDEX.ETH https://www.gdex.io/noticeAssets
XBTSX.ETH https://xbts.io/audit

RUDEX.EOS https://audit.rudex.org/
GDEX.EOS https://www.gdex.io/noticeAssets

Ordering Mining is to encourage market making via reasonable reward, to form sufficient market depth to attract traders, so the principles for the rules are:
1.give incentive to ordering, to narrowing the gap between top buy/sell orders, to big fund participation, and try to form a long-term mechanism.
2.attendees need to operate with self owned funds and bear profits or loss,no matter how much funds are included.
2.1 the bigger the order volume, the higher the reward.
2.2the closer the order price to the top counter party order price, the higher the reward.
2.3 the longer the order stay there, the higher the reward.
3.each day the reward to each pair depend on the fees that were paid to committee-account from this pair, the fee include the marginal fee and force settlement fee of bitAssets.

Rules
*Each pair group have 3 parameters include Base Reward, Top Reward, and Buy-Sell Reward Ratio, each pair have parameters include Pair Top Reward, Fee Return Ratio, Gear Goal Depth, Minimum Effective Order Volume.

*Calculation of pair reward and adjustment
First, calculate out the reward for each pair based on the contributed fee and the Fee Return Ratio of that pair, compare it with Pair Top Reward and select the lower one as the reward of that day for that pair. in formula Reward to one pair in one day = min(Fee paid from this pair to committee-account*Pair Fee Return Ratio, Pair Top Reward)

*Calculation of pair group reward and adjustment
Sum up the pair reward in the pair group to get the pair group reward, if Top Reward>pair group reward>Base Reward, adopt the pair group reward directly, if pair group reward<Base Reward, adopt Base Reward as pair group reward, if pair group reward>Top Reward, adopt Top Reward as pair group reward.

*Distribution of pair reward
*only the order with volume >  Minimum Effective Order Volume will be put into the market depth and reward calculation

*calculate the depth based on the distance from current order to the closer effective order in counter order listing.
Distance = ABS(this order price-closer counter order price)/MAX(this order price, closer counter order price)
Ordering Gears and according Reward Ratio
*orders inside 1% distance will share maximum 53% reward
*orders inside 2% distance will share maximum 25% reward
*orders inside 3% distance will share maximum 12% reward
*orders inside 5% distance will share maximum 6% reward
*orders inside 7% distance will share maximum 3% reward
*orders inside 10% distance will share maximum 1% reward
 
*In each gear:
If the summed up depth does not reach the goal depth, reward = maximum reward share* real depth/goal depth.
If the summed up depth overcome the goal depth, reward =  maximum reward share


*Distribution inside gears:
calculate the weight based on the distance of the order price to the gear border price:
Weight Coefficient = 1 + (gear top border price -  order price)/(gear top border price - gear bottom border price)
The pair reward share to each gear will be distributed to orders based on Order Volume*Weight Coefficient inside each gear.

*Calculation and rewarding will be done each day with period from UTC0:00 to 24:00, proposals will be created to distribute the rewards.
*If BTS 4.0 is not launched yet when this Ordering Mining begin, gateway need to pay 20% of the market fee of the listed gateway assets to committee assigned account, the reward to pairs with the gateway asset will stop if more than 1K BTS fee are not paid.

Parameters and Initial Values

Minimum Pair Daily Volume: 5KBTS, pairs with volumes less than this value at the day will not be included in reward distribution.

1.BTS/gateway assets group, Base Reward 3KBTS, Top Reward 20KBTS, and Buy-Sell Reward Ratio 7:3, each pair inside have Pair Top Reward 2K BTS, Fee Return Ratio 40, Gear Goal Depth 200K BTS, Minimum Effective Order Volume 100BTS.

2.BTS/bitAssets group, Base Reward 3KBTS, Top Reward 20KBTS, and Buy-Sell Reward Ratio 10:0, each pair inside have Pair Top Reward 10K BTS, Fee Return Ratio 20, Gear Goal Depth 1M BTS, Minimum Effective Order Volume 100BTS.

Suggest committee to set market fee to 0.1%, market fee sharing ratio to 20% for bitCNY, bitUSD, bitEUR and bitRUBLE.

3.  Gateway assets/bitAssets group, Base Reward 3KBTS, Top Reward 20KBTS, and Buy-Sell Reward Ratio 5:5, each pair inside have Pair Top Reward 2K BTS, Fee Return Ratio 20, Gear Goal Depth 200K BTS, at calculation the depth will be converted to according gateway asset depth based on the MA24 price, and
bitAssets/BTC: Minimum Effective Order Volume 0.0002 BTC
bitAssets/USDT: Minimum Effective Order Volume 2 USDT
bitAssets/ETH: Minimum Effective Order Volume 0.01 ETH
bitAssets/EOS: Minimum Effective Order Volume 1 EOS

#BTS Buy back and Burning
Committee will be responsible for the BTS buy back with the non-BTS assets in system income.
A parameter Burn-Income Ratio is set, each day BTS with amount=(system income*Burn-Income Ratio)will be transferred to the specific burning account, and will be burned when the accumulated amount reach a certain value.

#Payment for Development and Daily Operation
Generally BTS with amount = reward*1% will be paid to daily operators, each day proposal will be created to transfer such amount of BTS to operator account. On the other hand, as the update need development, salary will be paid to the developers if the proposal be approved by voting, currently the estimated salary is about 150K BTS.

Chinese version can be found here: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=29665.msg342265;topicseen#msg342265
Email:bitcrab@qq.com

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Offline ebit

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Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2020, 11:49:04 am »
Support,every exchange as a platform should support burning platform token and mining.
telegram:ebit521
https://weibo.com/ebiter

Offline binggo

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Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2020, 12:13:33 pm »
DON'T SUPPORT.

Waste money and  transfer benefits!



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Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2020, 03:07:52 pm »
Support,every exchange as a platform should support burning platform token and mining.

Thanks, Let's push BTS onto the right track.
Email:bitcrab@qq.com

Offline Thul3

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Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2020, 08:23:05 pm »
Support,every exchange as a platform should support burning platform token and mining.

Thanks, Let's push BTS onto the right track.

That's what you say over last 2 years and more and more people are leaving because of these kind of ignorant actions.
Rudex now also left mm contest.

Keep ignoring we are already cmc rank 92 .
Just a matter of time when bitshares will leave top 100 thanks to the ignorant trio

Offline bitcrab

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Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2020, 02:44:34 am »
That's what you say over last 2 years and more and more people are leaving because of these kind of ignorant actions.
Rudex now also left mm contest.

Keep ignoring we are already cmc rank 92.
Just a matter of time when bitshares will leave top 100 thanks to the ignorant trio

so what? Is MM contest that made BTS fall to 92?
every GATEWAY has freedom to do the choice.
This is the time that especially need actions to activate the trading, to attract more users. if we close MM contest at this time, it can only make BTS-DEX more desolate.
Email:bitcrab@qq.com

Offline binggo

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Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2020, 04:01:06 am »
That's what you say over last 2 years and more and more people are leaving because of these kind of ignorant actions.
Rudex now also left mm contest.

Keep ignoring we are already cmc rank 92.
Just a matter of time when bitshares will leave top 100 thanks to the ignorant trio

so what? Is MM contest that made BTS fall to 92?
every GATEWAY has freedom to do the choice.
This is the time that especially need actions to activate the trading, to attract more users. if we close MM contest at this time, it can only make BTS-DEX more desolate.

BTS is not a DEX!

This MM just wastes the money and time, become a tool of transferring benefits, spend too much but got nothing!

How many daily users did these gateway have?

How many new users did this MM have increased?

BTS still can survival without GATEWAY,BTS has its own user group,they hardly go to trade these gateway.asset.

Offline bench

Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2020, 12:40:59 pm »
2.BTS/bitAssets group, Base Reward 3KBTS, Top Reward 20KBTS, and Buy-Sell Reward Ratio 10:0
Why should the network reward the borrower of a scam coin ? Something is here completely wrong.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2020, 12:46:23 pm by bench »
Be part of the change and vote for the bitshares-vision proxy!

Offline EuropaSH

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Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2020, 05:02:40 pm »
This is a proposal which mainly focus on the update of the MM contest rules, however it is not only relevant to this, it try to build an economic model for BTS-DEX, to encourage users to contribute valuable transactions to the ecosystem, activate trading and promote the ecosystem value.

At the time that the MM contest paused, we observed that the BTS-DEX become more cold/desolate than the contest is active, it easy to understand, in any exchange in the world Market Making is a service that cannot be ignored, That’s why we try to optimize the MM contest rules and hope it can get enough support from the community.

The proposal will be discussed sufficiently and then be put into BSIP/BAIP poll voting, it will be executed if it is authorized by the voting.

On one hand, this proposal continuously enhance the platform token feature of BTS, enhance the contribution to system income from various assets, and the subsequent BTS buyback and burning.  On the other hand, this proposal will update the MM contest rules and rename it as “ordering mining” as one important part of the BTS-DEX economic model, BTS/bitAssets pairs group will be added in, reward on one pair will depend on the market fee income that was contributed from this pair to the system, the infrastructure will include several parameters which can be adjusted  to fit the business status, the gateway assets which are included in the ordering mining will be forced to pay part of the market fee to system before BTS 4.0 launching as a must for being listed in. All these update is to build a market-oriented selection and cultivation  mechanism, to make the competent pairs to stand out in a fair environment, and feed back to the system after growing up. The 3 trading pair groups just form a trading triangle, much trading chance will come out there if the market making really help.

Daily system income include all the BTS fees and the market fee share of the ordering mining listed gateway assets that were collected to committee-account, counted in BTS. All the funds that were used as rewards of for burning comes from committee-account, as current balance or future income.

#Ordering Mining
Ordering Mining involve 3 categories of assets which are BTS, bitAssets and Gateway assets.
bitAssets include bitCNY, bitUSD,bitEUR,bitRUBLE.
Gateway assets involve the according gateway assets of main crypto currencies include BTC, USDT, ETH and EOS, the organizer demand the gateway to guarantee the in time deposit and withdraw service with quick support while necessary, and provide the proof of real asset. Now the listed gateway asset include:

RUDEX.BTC https://audit.rudex.org/
GDEX.BTC https://www.gdex.io/noticeAssets
XBTSX.BTC https://xbts.io/audit

GDEX.USDT https://www.gdex.io/noticeAssets
RUDEX.USDT https://audit.rudex.org/
XBTSX.USDT https://xbts.io/audit

RUDEX.ETH https://audit.rudex.org/
GDEX.ETH https://www.gdex.io/noticeAssets
XBTSX.ETH https://xbts.io/audit

RUDEX.EOS https://audit.rudex.org/
GDEX.EOS https://www.gdex.io/noticeAssets

Ordering Mining is to encourage market making via reasonable reward, to form sufficient market depth to attract traders, so the principles for the rules are:
1.give incentive to ordering, to narrowing the gap between top buy/sell orders, to big fund participation, and try to form a long-term mechanism.
2.attendees need to operate with self owned funds and bear profits or loss,no matter how much funds are included.
2.1 the bigger the order volume, the higher the reward.
2.2the closer the order price to the top counter party order price, the higher the reward.
2.3 the longer the order stay there, the higher the reward.
3.each day the reward to each pair depend on the fees that were paid to committee-account from this pair, the fee include the marginal fee and force settlement fee of bitAssets.

Rules
*Each pair group have 3 parameters include Base Reward, Top Reward, and Buy-Sell Reward Ratio, each pair have parameters include Pair Top Reward, Fee Return Ratio, Gear Goal Depth, Minimum Effective Order Volume.

*Calculation of pair reward and adjustment
First, calculate out the reward for each pair based on the contributed fee and the Fee Return Ratio of that pair, compare it with Pair Top Reward and select the lower one as the reward of that day for that pair. in formula Reward to one pair in one day = min(Fee paid from this pair to committee-account*Pair Fee Return Ratio, Pair Top Reward)

*Calculation of pair group reward and adjustment
Sum up the pair reward in the pair group to get the pair group reward, if Top Reward>pair group reward>Base Reward, adopt the pair group reward directly, if pair group reward<Base Reward, adopt Base Reward as pair group reward, if pair group reward>Top Reward, adopt Top Reward as pair group reward.

*Distribution of pair reward
*only the order with volume >  Minimum Effective Order Volume will be put into the market depth and reward calculation

*calculate the depth based on the distance from current order to the closer effective order in counter order listing.
Distance = ABS(this order price-closer counter order price)/MAX(this order price, closer counter order price)
Ordering Gears and according Reward Ratio
*orders inside 1% distance will share maximum 53% reward
*orders inside 2% distance will share maximum 25% reward
*orders inside 3% distance will share maximum 12% reward
*orders inside 5% distance will share maximum 6% reward
*orders inside 7% distance will share maximum 3% reward
*orders inside 10% distance will share maximum 1% reward
 
*In each gear:
If the summed up depth does not reach the goal depth, reward = maximum reward share* real depth/goal depth.
If the summed up depth overcome the goal depth, reward =  maximum reward share


*Distribution inside gears:
calculate the weight based on the distance of the order price to the gear border price:
Weight Coefficient = 1 + (gear top border price -  order price)/(gear top border price - gear bottom border price)
The pair reward share to each gear will be distributed to orders based on Order Volume*Weight Coefficient inside each gear.

*Calculation and rewarding will be done each day with period from UTC0:00 to 24:00, proposals will be created to distribute the rewards.
*If BTS 4.0 is not launched yet when this Ordering Mining begin, gateway need to pay 20% of the market fee of the listed gateway assets to committee assigned account, the reward to pairs with the gateway asset will stop if more than 1K BTS fee are not paid.

Parameters and Initial Values

Minimum Pair Daily Volume: 5KBTS, pairs with volumes less than this value at the day will not be included in reward distribution.

1.BTS/gateway assets group, Base Reward 3KBTS, Top Reward 20KBTS, and Buy-Sell Reward Ratio 7:3, each pair inside have Pair Top Reward 2K BTS, Fee Return Ratio 40, Gear Goal Depth 200K BTS, Minimum Effective Order Volume 100BTS.

2.BTS/bitAssets group, Base Reward 3KBTS, Top Reward 20KBTS, and Buy-Sell Reward Ratio 10:0, each pair inside have Pair Top Reward 10K BTS, Fee Return Ratio 20, Gear Goal Depth 1M BTS, Minimum Effective Order Volume 100BTS.

Suggest committee to set market fee to 0.1%, market fee sharing ratio to 20% for bitCNY, bitUSD, bitEUR and bitRUBLE.

3.  Gateway assets/bitAssets group, Base Reward 3KBTS, Top Reward 20KBTS, and Buy-Sell Reward Ratio 5:5, each pair inside have Pair Top Reward 2K BTS, Fee Return Ratio 20, Gear Goal Depth 200K BTS, at calculation the depth will be converted to according gateway asset depth based on the MA24 price, and
bitAssets/BTC: Minimum Effective Order Volume 0.0002 BTC
bitAssets/USDT: Minimum Effective Order Volume 2 USDT
bitAssets/ETH: Minimum Effective Order Volume 0.01 ETH
bitAssets/EOS: Minimum Effective Order Volume 1 EOS

#BTS Buy back and Burning
Committee will be responsible for the BTS buy back with the non-BTS assets in system income.
A parameter Burn-Income Ratio is set, each day BTS with amount=(system income*Burn-Income Ratio)will be transferred to the specific burning account, and will be burned when the accumulated amount reach a certain value.

#Payment for Development and Daily Operation
Generally BTS with amount = reward*1% will be paid to daily operators, each day proposal will be created to transfer such amount of BTS to operator account. On the other hand, as the update need development, salary will be paid to the developers if the proposal be approved by voting, currently the estimated salary is about 150K BTS.

Chinese version can be found here: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=29665.msg342265;topicseen#msg342265


We use other mechanisms to encourage traders. Our model is Staking https://xbts.io/smart-holder . Staking Program on the XBTS exchange has been working for 2 years. Also, our traders earn cryptocurrency by participating in promotions, games and other activities. This attracts new users to the exchange and the entire ecosystem.
XBTS DEX EXCHANGE FOR TRADERS AND GAMERS https://xbts.io

Offline bitcrab

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Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2020, 03:21:21 am »
We use other mechanisms to encourage traders. Our model is Staking https://xbts.io/smart-holder . Staking Program on the XBTS exchange has been working for 2 years. Also, our traders earn cryptocurrency by participating in promotions, games and other activities. This attracts new users to the exchange and the entire ecosystem.

seems the volume is small yet?
kindly reminding: after the launch of BTS4.0, all the gateway assets need to share market fee to system, either participate the MM contest or not.
Email:bitcrab@qq.com

Offline binggo

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Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2020, 07:09:46 am »
We use other mechanisms to encourage traders. Our model is Staking https://xbts.io/smart-holder . Staking Program on the XBTS exchange has been working for 2 years. Also, our traders earn cryptocurrency by participating in promotions, games and other activities. This attracts new users to the exchange and the entire ecosystem.

seems the volume is small yet?
kindly reminding: after the launch of BTS4.0, all the gateway assets need to share market fee to system, either participate the MM contest or not.

Threaten? 

Can you decide all the gateway assets need to share market fee to system?you think the gateways can't leave BTS or didn't have other choices?

When all the gateway assets leave BTS system,you can charge any assets fees as your wish!

When the gateways decide to go away,you will can't make them come back again,lose one then lose all!

I just call BSIP86 is a BSIP without thinking, when BTS charge the market fees of GATEWAY assets, BTS will have the jointly liable!!!
« Last Edit: May 23, 2020, 07:35:21 am by binggo »

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Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2020, 02:24:15 am »
2.BTS/bitAssets group, Base Reward 3KBTS, Top Reward 20KBTS, and Buy-Sell Reward Ratio 10:0
Why should the network reward the borrower of a scam coin ? Something is here completely wrong.

it's easy to call bitCNY and bitUSD scamcoin, it's difficult to make BTS grow up and resume bitCNY and bitUSD.

even peg off, bitCNY still contribute much more market fee than pegged bitAssets like bitEUR.

we need not to exclude bitCNY and bitUSD, we need more market fee, we need to provide market making chance to bitCNY and bitUSD holders, we need to do market making for bitCNY and bitUSD before they resume.
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Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2020, 10:30:10 am »
I just call BSIP86 is a BSIP without thinking, when BTS charge the market fees of GATEWAY assets, BTS will have the jointly liable!!!

just shout and bite as you wish, if you enjoy.
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Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2020, 11:42:56 am »
I just call BSIP86 is a BSIP without thinking, when BTS charge the market fees of GATEWAY assets, BTS will have the jointly liable!!!

just shout and bite as you wish, if you enjoy.


You can get the legal counsel from them,if you didn't believe.

If BTS has charged market fees from OPEN.assets,now the OPEN run away,so you think what will happen?

https://www.bitshares.foundation/workers/2020-01-bitshares-legal-representative
« Last Edit: May 24, 2020, 12:40:37 pm by binggo »

Offline blockchained

Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2020, 12:38:31 pm »
kindly reminding: after the launch of BTS4.0, all the gateway assets need to share market fee to system, either participate the MM contest or not.
In this case, you'll have probably only your gateway, and bitshares ranked 110+ or something. I heard more and more people and services talking about the fork, also saw some code already. What you will do with double taxation when it will be nothing to taxate?



After observing the previous MM contest we've decided to not legitimize money-grabbing from the reserve pool.


RuDEX will not participate in the next MM contest please exclude our platform from this list

« Last Edit: May 24, 2020, 12:54:09 pm by blockchained »

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Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2020, 02:05:36 pm »
kindly reminding: after the launch of BTS4.0, all the gateway assets need to share market fee to system, either participate the MM contest or not.
In this case, you'll have probably only your gateway, and bitshares ranked 110+ or something. I heard more and more people and services talking about the fork, also saw some code already. What you will do with double taxation when it will be nothing to taxate?



After observing the previous MM contest we've decided to not legitimize money-grabbing from the reserve pool.


RuDEX will not participate in the next MM contest please exclude our platform from this list

 A: a gov provide poor public service, with low tax rate.
 B: a gov provide high quality public service, with higher tax rate.

it is possible that B is better than A. we need to try.

MM is a service that any exchange need, MM contest is a mechanism that distributing the MM task, I am sad that you call it "money-grabbing", however, I believe that this mechanism will contribute greatly to BTS with continuous update and optimization.

 
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Offline Thul3

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Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2020, 02:16:23 pm »
What we need first is getting trust back from our members so they are willing to deposit again.
Currently all i see is people leaving or getting silent and stupid ideas we had over the last 2 years to growth based on adjusting parameters.

Where is the real user base growth everyone is looking for the past 2 years ?

You think without development of demanded features there will be any growth ?
You think taxation of gateways will bring growth to bitshares ?

People are tired about that nonsense and not willing anymore to listen to it anymore.They accept now only real growth.
Bitshares already wasted enough time with no real progress.


I'm asking myself if it was a good action from my side to protect a big part of chinese community to not get rekkt when reading their BS comments to foreigners to buy more BTS to stop corruption on bitshares.
Your idealogy you talked with digital lucifer i won't even comment here.
All i can say people prefer to leave or fork bitshares rather than staying on a centralized bitshares with no key feature development which you represent and support.

All i see is 3 main chinese people who implemented massive corruption and dictatorship on bitshares making inside deals,kicking out long term witnesses who provided expensive infra to bitshares in exchange to witnesses who don't provide anything,scam workers,abusing and destroment of foreign group chats,centralization of bitshares ,destroying key values from bitshares token over committee destroying confidence into committee and bitassets.
If thats your path to get bitshares great again i doubt it will work.

It's sad to see that such a great project gets destroyed because of this kind of behavior and a community splitted because of the ignorance of one part about the other part.
People are tired to fight the endless war against this ignorance and corruption after such a long time.

As you can see less and less people are participating in bitshares and providing endless hours for no compensation with frustating no results.

Just have a look at the small exchange nash.
They had on average $4k volume per day.It was a dead exchange.After implementing non custodial trading their volume exploded on average to arround $350k.
That is real growth by providing demended features and not what bitshares is playing the last 2 years.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2020, 02:47:31 pm by Thul3 »

Offline bitcrab

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Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2020, 03:01:35 pm »
we adjust parameters because they need adjustment, no one think we can get user base growth only by parameter adjustment.

Yes, increase system income is important for growth of Bitshares.

the core prelude worker is on going, and after that will be subsequent core worker. If you just refuse to accept them, I don't know what to say.

you mentioned what you see is just what you guess, there's no 3 Chinese people that can make decision, even in China community it is not easy to reach consensus, I understand there's problems, but if you just like blaming, not try to understand each other, I don't know what to say.
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Offline binggo

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Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #19 on: May 24, 2020, 03:07:48 pm »
Quote

 A: a gov provide poor public service, with low tax rate.
 B: a gov provide high quality public service, with higher tax rate.

it is possible that B is better than A. we need to try.

MM is a service that any exchange need, MM contest is a mechanism that distributing the MM task, I am sad that you call it "money-grabbing", however, I believe that this mechanism will contribute greatly to BTS with continuous update and optimization.

 

You gave a stupid example, and you still didn't know what bts it is, you are confusing bts and gateway.

The gateway want to do what is their freedom, bts didn't have any right to ask them to do what, they can do the thing what they think is right and suitable, this is their business.

Bts is just a service provider, it charges the network fees for its service, when bts want to charge the market fees from gateway, then bts cross over the line.

MM is not the bts needed, it can't make bts greater or better.

If the mechanism is so good, why GDEX didn't use it in GDEX in the past few years? it seems the GDP have been failed.

Offline R

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Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2020, 05:02:30 pm »
Quote
bitAssets include bitCNY, bitUSD

Why include known scam coins in this? Reject.

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Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #21 on: May 25, 2020, 03:22:34 am »
You gave a stupid example, and you still didn't know what bts it is, you are confusing bts and gateway.

The gateway want to do what is their freedom, bts didn't have any right to ask them to do what, they can do the thing what they think is right and suitable, this is their business.

Bts is just a service provider, it charges the network fees for its service, when bts want to charge the market fees from gateway, then bts cross over the line.

MM is not the bts needed, it can't make bts greater or better.

If the mechanism is so good, why GDEX didn't use it in GDEX in the past few years? it seems the GDP have been failed.

if one people decided to fight against one thing or one person, he can always find excuse.

BSIP86 is on the way of development, it will be launched in recent future, after finishing all necessary procedure, following the DPoS principle.

Gateways are not forced to participate the MM contest, but BSIP86 will apply for all.

don't always talk as you are the proxy of BTS.

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Offline binggo

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Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #22 on: May 25, 2020, 05:09:24 am »
You gave a stupid example, and you still didn't know what bts it is, you are confusing bts and gateway.

The gateway want to do what is their freedom, bts didn't have any right to ask them to do what, they can do the thing what they think is right and suitable, this is their business.

Bts is just a service provider, it charges the network fees for its service, when bts want to charge the market fees from gateway, then bts cross over the line.

MM is not the bts needed, it can't make bts greater or better.

If the mechanism is so good, why GDEX didn't use it in GDEX in the past few years? it seems the GDP have been failed.

if one people decided to fight against one thing or one person, he can always find excuse.

BSIP86 is on the way of development, it will be launched in recent future, after finishing all necessary procedure, following the DPoS principle.

Gateways are not forced to participate the MM contest, but BSIP86 will apply for all.

don't always talk as you are the proxy of BTS.

What you act just like a kid, never to recognize his failure.

When BSIP86 bring the lawsuit to BTS, i hope you can come out to face it and don't say it is the decision of bts holder.

I do what is my freedom, but you did something to bts, i have the right to supervise.

Go to get the legal counsel for BSIP86 from them,if you or them still a committee of BTS, don't act like a kid, use your head!

https://www.bitshares.foundation/workers/2020-01-bitshares-legal-representative

Offline blockchained

Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #23 on: May 25, 2020, 12:15:57 pm »
Gateways are not forced to participate the MM contest, but BSIP86 will apply for all.

not for all, just for you

Ol- gone, bitspark - gone, cryptobridge - gone, deex - gone, easydex - gone, escodex - gone, etc. You haven't asked any 1 gateway about these changes beside yourself.

Ask the Chinese community are they ready to stay on this chain by themself with no foreigners? Is it worth it?

We already start looking for an alternative platform to migrate our service if these updates will pass (we love bitshares as an instrument and we've helped to develop and popularise it in our community but we do not agree with this way for bitshares) anyway our main trades between our own pairs. We use bitshares as a matching engine and we don't want to be a double-taxed, but we already have a loyal community of traders that will leave with us. Bitshares a long time ago lost the race for only dex engine in the crypto space. So you will be monopolist and you will control the budget that worthless on a platform that nobody uses and nobody interested especially when bitshares loose top-100 positions. For sure you know a statistic and you know how bad this statistic.

Look at ALL your MM proposals and where they lead us in the end, I don't think that it is possible to find something besides failure. If I'm wrong please show me the result of the previous MM contest or what a result you have of previous fee managing from the bitAssets?

 Greed is a bad advisor, stupid greed especially 
« Last Edit: May 25, 2020, 01:36:05 pm by blockchained »

Offline bench

Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #24 on: May 25, 2020, 01:28:42 pm »
it's easy to call bitCNY and bitUSD scamcoin, it's difficult to make BTS grow up and resume bitCNY and bitUSD.

Yes, it is very easy to say:
- because borrower did not use the chance to pay their debt back, when bitUSD/bitCNY has a huge discount.
- because market fees where not used to finance the reserve pool or to support development.
- because my suggestion to lower feed price threshold every day by 0.5%, is still not implemented.
- because we have with HONEST.Assets a working alternative.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2020, 02:48:19 pm by bench »
Be part of the change and vote for the bitshares-vision proxy!

Offline EuropaSH

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Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #25 on: May 25, 2020, 02:44:40 pm »
We use other mechanisms to encourage traders. Our model is Staking https://xbts.io/smart-holder . Staking Program on the XBTS exchange has been working for 2 years. Also, our traders earn cryptocurrency by participating in promotions, games and other activities. This attracts new users to the exchange and the entire ecosystem.

seems the volume is small yet?
kindly reminding: after the launch of BTS4.0, all the gateway assets need to share market fee to system, either participate the MM contest or not.


Can you tell us more about double tax? And who will pay? - All gateways that work on Bitshares, including your gateway. All payment systems such as PalmPay? As well as coins that are issued to Bitshares as an asset that management their business, for example, Evraz or CloudCoin (the original cloudcoin is not a blockchain, but they have an asset in Bitshares).

What opportunities will appear in the Bitshares after the introduction of a double tax?

What are the benefits of gateways that work on Bitshares?
XBTS make ads for Bitshares, do services and games in which we add BTS, etc.

For all the time that we have been working for Bitshares, and this is 2 years, the system has not had any advertising campaigns. Several conferences were held, but did they give a result? At the same time, the cost of these conferences was very high.

As you remember, last year there was a wave of mass closure of exchanges for various reasons, this greatly affected the reputation of Bitshares and those exchanges that continued to work well.

The increase in the cost of creating an asset, especially in times of crisis, complicates the listing process and makes it more expensive, which significantly reduces the opportunities for new projects. Many choose Waves dex as an alternative or go to other exchanges.

Based on the concept of the work of the workers, there is a question:
Why do Bitshares still lack a beautiful adaptive interface? The interface  has been paid, and done, why is it unavailable? Maybe it’s worth considering the option of returning funds from workers who did not fulfill what they promised?
And why were the worker proposal completed if the work was not completed?

Now you want to introduce an additional tax on the gateways that work and bring profit to the system. Each gateway has its own vision of development, gateways are not slaves of the blockchain. Gateways are partners of the blockchain.

Alternative solution:
Why waste time updating the core and introducing taxation if there is a solution for everyone. Raise the fee in the network to 5 BTS per action and the network profit will be 5 times higher.

If you decide to only tax the gateways, then the gateways should be in the witnesses, the gateways will return the BTS back to the blockchain and continue to develop.
XBTS DEX EXCHANGE FOR TRADERS AND GAMERS https://xbts.io

Offline bitcrab

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Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #26 on: May 25, 2020, 04:10:01 pm »

Can you tell us more about double tax? And who will pay? - All gateways that work on Bitshares, including your gateway. All payment systems such as PalmPay? As well as coins that are issued to Bitshares as an asset that management their business, for example, Evraz or CloudCoin (the original cloudcoin is not a blockchain, but they have an asset in Bitshares).

What opportunities will appear in the Bitshares after the introduction of a double tax?

What are the benefits of gateways that work on Bitshares?
XBTS make ads for Bitshares, do services and games in which we add BTS, etc.

For all the time that we have been working for Bitshares, and this is 2 years, the system has not had any advertising campaigns. Several conferences were held, but did they give a result? At the same time, the cost of these conferences was very high.

As you remember, last year there was a wave of mass closure of exchanges for various reasons, this greatly affected the reputation of Bitshares and those exchanges that continued to work well.

The increase in the cost of creating an asset, especially in times of crisis, complicates the listing process and makes it more expensive, which significantly reduces the opportunities for new projects. Many choose Waves dex as an alternative or go to other exchanges.

Based on the concept of the work of the workers, there is a question:
Why do Bitshares still lack a beautiful adaptive interface? The interface  has been paid, and done, why is it unavailable? Maybe it’s worth considering the option of returning funds from workers who did not fulfill what they promised?
And why were the worker proposal completed if the work was not completed?

Now you want to introduce an additional tax on the gateways that work and bring profit to the system. Each gateway has its own vision of development, gateways are not slaves of the blockchain. Gateways are partners of the blockchain.

Alternative solution:
Why waste time updating the core and introducing taxation if there is a solution for everyone. Raise the fee in the network to 5 BTS per action and the network profit will be 5 times higher.

If you decide to only tax the gateways, then the gateways should be in the witnesses, the gateways will return the BTS back to the blockchain and continue to develop.

It is not "only tax gateways", BSIP86 will "tax" all UIAs, and it is not "I decide", BSIP86 is the result of a long discussion, as a gateway founder at first I am against this idea, but step by step I accept the idea from abit and some other people, I become agree that charging a percent fee from UIA market fee will be good to build a great ecosystem.  the "tax" can be considered as the fee for utilizing the DEX infrastructure.
Email:bitcrab@qq.com

Offline blockchained

Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #27 on: May 25, 2020, 04:35:41 pm »
BSIP86 is the result of a long discussion
name 1 more gateway who participated in this discussion besides you?
With what businesses that operate on top of bitshares you discussed it in "a long discussion"? who are they? I'm really curious

a percent fee from UIA market fee will be good to build a great ecosystem
it would be the last nail in the coffin. The first one was also YOURS bsip42 from what began all this mess


the "tax" can be considered as the fee for utilizing the DEX infrastructure
We already paying blockchain fees for utilizing the DEX infrastructure, so it is just double taxation for the businesses, It obvious that you don't care about some private tokens like "ZALUPA", you couldn't get any profit from this

Who will manage the taxation fund?
Who will get money for the management of this fund?

It is a rhetorical question because everyone in the community knows that it will be your or members associated with you, so tell me more about how you were against this bsip 

Community well remember the SPRING thing or committee-cnytrader operations, do you have the same brilliant plans for taxation funds?
« Last Edit: May 25, 2020, 07:56:23 pm by blockchained »

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Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #28 on: May 27, 2020, 10:48:13 am »

the "tax" can be considered as the fee for utilizing the DEX infrastructure
We already paying blockchain fees for utilizing the DEX infrastructure, so it is just double taxation for the businesses, It obvious that you don't care about some private tokens like "ZALUPA", you couldn't get any profit from this

Who will manage the taxation fund?
Who will get money for the management of this fund?

It is a rhetorical question because everyone in the community knows that it will be your or members associated with you, so tell me more about how you were against this bsip 

Community well remember the SPRING thing or committee-cnytrader operations, do you have the same brilliant plans for taxation funds?

after the launching of 4.0, the BSIP86 parameter will be determined by voting, I agree that the community need be careful/conservative on this, if finally the voting decided to set the rate to 0, market fee will not be shared.

however in my view, it's good that gateway pay some further fee and the platform provide some further public service, GDEX has bought MM service from providers, it's expensive and not so satisfactory, the MM contest actually provide good service and is potential to be better, when MM contest helps GDEX, GDEX will contribute to community with better depth, more active trading and also more system income, the rules will be continuously updated to make it more easy for voters to estimate how it works well enough.

 
Email:bitcrab@qq.com

Offline Thul3

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Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #29 on: May 27, 2020, 11:17:17 am »
This discussion is useless and more important outdated.
You are hitting a dead horse.


We need non custodial wallets.Everything else will come from itself once you give people what they demand.

Real price feed and security for bitassets owner would be the next step to get back attention to bitassets.

You however want based on the chat logs centralization,full AML and KYC,worst country location for bitshares company slovenia/thailand and stick to gateways (your own business)which lost majority of trust from members.

Once you have these done update dexbot for mirrored offers and create a team like every other big exchange is doing it to tap liquidity from other big exchanges to their own.
A nice example is poloniex on BTS/BTC.
They basicly have no own liquidity but you always have 2-4 BTC buy and sell orders near price.Once somebody sells or buys something poloniex redistributes instantly the order through multiple exchanges.

 
« Last Edit: May 27, 2020, 11:29:21 am by Thul3 »

Offline binggo

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Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #30 on: May 27, 2020, 11:20:51 am »

the "tax" can be considered as the fee for utilizing the DEX infrastructure
We already paying blockchain fees for utilizing the DEX infrastructure, so it is just double taxation for the businesses, It obvious that you don't care about some private tokens like "ZALUPA", you couldn't get any profit from this

Who will manage the taxation fund?
Who will get money for the management of this fund?

It is a rhetorical question because everyone in the community knows that it will be your or members associated with you, so tell me more about how you were against this bsip 

Community well remember the SPRING thing or committee-cnytrader operations, do you have the same brilliant plans for taxation funds?

after the launching of 4.0, the BSIP86 parameter will be determined by voting, I agree that the community need be careful/conservative on this, if finally the voting decided to set the rate to 0, market fee will not be shared.

however in my view, it's good that gateway pay some further fee and the platform provide some further public service, GDEX has bought MM service from providers, it's expensive and not so satisfactory, the MM contest actually provide good service and is potential to be better, when MM contest helps GDEX, GDEX will contribute to community with better depth, more active trading and also more system income, the rules will be continuously updated to make it more easy for voters to estimate how it works well enough.

You are kidding something, if MM so good, why GDEX did not spend own money to do it in such long time? why you want to spend community money so eagerly?

If it was so good, GDEX can spend own money to do MM,then show the result to community and calculate how many new users and how much income,how much cost!!!


QUESTION:

1. The fund of last MM comes from committee account, so who gave the right to committee to spend it?where is the BSIP for vote? if the bts holders agreed the last MM?

2. How much cost?

3. How much income?

4. How many new users?

5. How many daily users?

Please the committee answer these questions!


Where is the fund of the last OMO?what did the committee want to deal with it?

Please the committee answer this questions!

Bitcrab,you are the top committee, the owner of GDEX, the main participator of Gateway,you are the most suitable person to answer these questions.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2020, 11:54:42 am by binggo »

Offline blockchained

Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #31 on: May 27, 2020, 02:03:40 pm »

after the launching of 4.0, the BSIP86 parameter will be determined by voting, I agree that the community need be careful/conservative on this, if finally the voting decided to set the rate to 0, market fee will not be shared.

however in my view, it's good that gateway pay some further fee and the platform provide some further public service, GDEX has bought MM service from providers, it's expensive and not so satisfactory, the MM contest actually provide good service and is potential to be better, when MM contest helps GDEX, GDEX will contribute to community with better depth, more active trading and also more system income, the rules will be continuously updated to make it more easy for voters to estimate how it works well enough.

As a gateway that participated and observed previous mm contest, I can say that it is bring nothing, just some money to the bots that trading on gdex

if it so good use it for your own business proof that it's worth something. But NO you prefer to do it by the community money because it looks like to spend money on MM contest from reserve pool it is the only way how you make money on this so-called MM contest.

if finally the voting decided to set the rate to 0, market fee will not be shared
We already paying blockchain fees, so this double taxation looks more like a tribute for the existing businesses this is not acceptable.

I told you and I repeat you not once that taxation is a worse idea that pops up in your head, a community that for the year couldn't imagine/invent anything smarter/better than bring/build taxation in blockchain for a few existing small businesses on top of it are going in a rekt direction


Chinese community, mark my words, with such ideas for the bitshares upgrade you will roll OUT from top-100 till the end of the year No foreigners, no businesses, no money, just some scammed/broken bitassets, empty markets and "workers" dumping the coin. The bright future for the chain, isn't it?
« Last Edit: May 27, 2020, 02:55:33 pm by blockchained »

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Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #32 on: May 27, 2020, 04:19:50 pm »
if finally the voting decided to set the rate to 0, market fee will not be shared
We already paying blockchain fees, so this double taxation looks more like a tribute for the existing businesses this is not acceptable.

Rather than rejecting this and that, can we start a discussion about what is acceptable? E.G. what fee percent is acceptable for you? 1%? 5%? 10%? 20%? 30%?

It's clear that there is a conflict of interest on your side. As a gateway you want the platform to help you more so you can earn more, and it's better to pay less to the platform, on the other hand, as a BTS holder you probably want the platform to earn more from the gateways.

I am NOT running a gateway so I am mostly on the side of the platform. Yet I seek for win-win situations.

The question is just that, what CAN WE DO to both benefit the platform and the gateways? Don't tell me doing nothing is the answer. In the past there are enough times we did nothing and the situation went worse.

Here are some potential options I can see to increase income:
* the committee increases basic operation fees (zero cost, maybe higher or lower final income)
* the committee makes use of bsip86 (zero cost, maybe higher or lower final income)
* the community use some funds (committee or worker) to encourage trading, in hope of gaining more income (some costs, maybe higher or lower final income)

What do you think?

Quote
I told you and I repeat you not once that taxation is a worse idea that pops up in your head, a community that for the year couldn't imagine/invent anything smarter/better than bring/build taxation in blockchain for a few existing small businesses on top of it are going in a rekt direction

Chinese community, mark my words, with such ideas for the bitshares upgrade you will roll OUT from top-100 till the end of the year No foreigners, no businesses, no money, just some scammed/broken bitassets, empty markets and "workers" dumping the coin. The bright future for the chain, isn't it?
What's your SOLUTION then?

You know which gateways scammed the community. Not Chinese.

You know who (workers or not) dumped the hardest. Not Chinese.

Yes, Chinese pushed the de-peg of bitassets, but without the great support of Thule, your friend, it shouldn't have been done.
BTS account: abit
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Offline blockchained

Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #33 on: May 27, 2020, 04:40:13 pm »
It's clear that there is a conflict of interest on your side. As a gateway you want the platform to help you more so you can earn more, and it's better to pay less to the platform, on the other hand, as a BTS holder you probably want the platform to earn more from the gateways.

so now gateways are not members of the community? not bts holders that by the activities spending more on the blockchain fees than average holder that just sit on the bag and pay no fees to the platform?
why we have blockchain fees then?

Before talking "conflict of interest" and "earnings" just take a calculator and calculate so-called profit of the gateways it is public on the blockchain. Bitshares as a blockchain for gateway business already failed that's why gateways run away and stop their services, did you noticed that? Because no fish there, nobody uses it really, nor ICOs nor traders. So from the point of view of the business after this changes it better to migrate service, less spends. Why do I need to use bts engine with double taxation as a gateway service/cex on top of it if I could use other dex engines on other blockchains with no fees at all?. Our customers mainly our community that come to rudex and trade our UIA mostly, but still paying blockchain fees. Why do we need to stay here with our community? 
And as a bts holder, I understand if the businesses will continue to migrate from bitshares, BTS would be worthless very soon.

This bsip make borders for the new gateways and push out those that exist, what value in it? tell me

Why the community must pay for this development instead of something valuable that bring something to bitshares and not push out and force to dump this coin. Do you understand how ridiculous this situation is?

Yes, Chinese pushed the de-peg of bitassets, but without the great support of Thule, your friend, it shouldn't have been done.

it was your and bitcrab idea no one to blame besides you two

Rather than rejecting this and that, can we start a discussion about what is acceptable? E.G. what fee percent is acceptable for you? 1%? 5%? 10%? 20%? 30%?

You don't understand that this tribute not acceptable at all

It's clear that there is a conflict of interest on your side
From my point of view "conflict of interest" it is you who seating as a witness, committee and worker at the same time. Чья бы корова мычала.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2020, 06:35:29 pm by blockchained »

Offline Thul3

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Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #34 on: May 27, 2020, 04:42:14 pm »
Quote
Rather than rejecting this and that, can we start a discussion about what is acceptable? E.G. what fee percent is acceptable for you? 1%? 5%? 10%? 20%? 30%?

Rather than being ignorant ,muting people who doesn't agree on your opinion killing telegram groups ,supporting inside deals ,scam workers,workers which are against community will like legal
and ignoring requests made not from bitcrab or jademont ,it would make sense to listen to the community.

How come so many people are unhappy with your actions even chinese ones ?
You played long enough one men dictator who is executing what bitcrab and jademont is telling you in closed groups?

How many bitshares Admin's and members have you muted and made leaving bitshares ?
You think you have any special rights to do so ?

Here again acting like you want to find a solution but only accepting inside a frame which you and bitcrab would accept and nothing else.


You are asking for solution ?
Easy

fix governance
fix committee
announce fixing price feeds when x happens (as it clearly seems you guys have no real intention in removing threshold)
non custodial wallets and trading (thats something two major chinese committee members don't like for a known reason)
TnT which is mainly for free from Nathan
etc.....

Thats called real progress and not the shit you guys fabricate the last years with your BSIP42,BAIP2,BAIP endless etc ........

You guys are so fixed in parameters that you totaly forgat about progress.All you do is playing parameters and nothing else,trying to get funds from reserve pool in name of marketing,exchanges,mm etc with no positive effect at all.

Trying to get support everywhere even at your worst enemies supporting their witnesses and if they refuse to support your crap taking your support instantly away trying to punish them.
Basicly misusing the voting system.
An invention of some people to use voting system not what is best for bitshares but for punishment and inside deals.
Like yourself not voting for blckchaned because he was loud refusing BSIP76.
Not important if he is big supporter of bitshares and a good witness or not what you care is he disagreed with your opinion/action so you had to punish him.


You created a very toxic bitshares.
You mainly discuss and plan in a closed group without letting other participate for a known reason.
You support inside deals which are crappy for bitshares.
You even justify them openly which foreigners are massivly against.

We don't support inside deals,money grab,abuse and stagnation anymore.

Your solution is crap.We only accept now real progress.
You forced us enough stagnation where diffrent people from diffrent groups asked you hundred times politly to change something which you each time refused acting like a one men show who decides about everything.

You want a solution ?
First soltution will be to limit your power and abuse.

Bitshares members are still muted by you
You still support minority crap and don't execute voters will.

The last committee voting was a good example that nothing changed that as soon as you get the possibility you will enforce your own point of view even majority was clearly against it as it fit in the point of view of 3 known people.

« Last Edit: May 27, 2020, 05:06:56 pm by Thul3 »

Offline bitcrab

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Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #35 on: May 28, 2020, 02:07:34 am »

We already paying blockchain fees, so this double taxation looks more like a tribute for the existing businesses this is not acceptable.

I told you and I repeat you not once that taxation is a worse idea that pops up in your head, a community that for the year couldn't imagine/invent anything smarter/better than bring/build taxation in blockchain for a few existing small businesses on top of it are going in a rekt direction


Chinese community, mark my words, with such ideas for the bitshares upgrade you will roll OUT from top-100 till the end of the year No foreigners, no businesses, no money, just some scammed/broken bitassets, empty markets and "workers" dumping the coin. The bright future for the chain, isn't it?

anyone do not like to pay further fees, easy to understand.

what is ongoing is the core prelude worker, subsequent core worker is on plan.

China community would like to communicate with members/communities from other countries, I am sure that BTS will stay in top-80 at the end of this year, we'll try to make it return to top-50.
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Offline chigbolu

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Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #36 on: May 28, 2020, 02:49:24 am »
... the gateway assets which are included in the ordering mining will beforced to pay part of the market fee to system before BTS 4.0 launching as a must for being listed... This term forced to pay is wrong to use in a blockchain system like BTS, you can't and should not force anyone to pay for anything, it should be voluntary, besides none of the exchanges has agitated or asked for this new MM system they were participating because their customers stood to gain from it, not even them so why force them and give them stringent conditions.

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Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #37 on: May 28, 2020, 03:40:41 am »
Yes, Chinese pushed the de-peg of bitassets, but without the great support of Thule, your friend, it shouldn't have been done.
it was your and bitcrab idea no one to blame besides you two

even now I don't think it's wrong to apply BSIP76, de-peg of bitCNY and bitUSD is much better than death spiral leading BTS price to 0.

we need some robust thing to resist the death spiral, BAIP2 may be what we need. I still prefer to keep the feed price rule unchanged before the BTS price be stable above the threshold, what I think need to do first is to find a chance to lower the bitUSD-feed price threshold to be equal with that of bitCNY.

we can let bitEUR and bitRUBLE there without BAIP76 or BAIP2 and let users choose which to use, as their supply is much lower than that of bitCNY there will be little chance to trigger death spiral.
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Offline binggo

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Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #38 on: May 28, 2020, 04:17:26 am »
Yes, Chinese pushed the de-peg of bitassets, but without the great support of Thule, your friend, it shouldn't have been done.
it was your and bitcrab idea no one to blame besides you two

even now I don't think it's wrong to apply BSIP76, de-peg of bitCNY and bitUSD is much better than death spiral leading BTS price to 0.

we need some robust thing to resist the death spiral, BAIP2 may be what we need. I still prefer to keep the feed price rule unchanged before the BTS price be stable above the threshold, what I think need to do first is to find a chance to lower the bitUSD-feed price threshold to be equal with that of bitCNY.

we can let bitEUR and bitRUBLE there without BAIP76 or BAIP2 and let users choose which to use, as their supply is much lower than that of bitCNY there will be little chance to trigger death spiral.

Let BTS become bitcrab/abit/CN-VOTE chain, you can do it!

If you didn't have logic,please don't sound like you have logic!

Quote
death spiral

If you didn't understand it,please don't sound you know it,so many years,you still didn't undertand the ”death spiral“.

Quote
death spiral leading BTS price to 0

How you know it? or, i get how you know it, it's somebody told you, then you believe it so deeply.

A group of such short-sighted people, just think freeze the feed price, then the market will admit the price,who pay the loss of bitasset holders?if the debtor can't bear the risk,why did they still make a debt?
« Last Edit: May 28, 2020, 04:30:04 am by binggo »

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Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #39 on: May 28, 2020, 04:37:03 am »
keep shouting and biting if you enjoy, no time to reply that.
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Offline binggo

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Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #40 on: May 28, 2020, 05:08:50 am »
keep shouting and biting if you enjoy, no time to reply that.

别的项目都在努力的往正规道路上走,巨蟹你却还在孜孜不倦的搞这些小伎俩,可以的,巨蟹!

"不要去劝一个执意吃屎的人。不然,他不但不会感谢你。他还以为你会和他抢着吃。"

这么多人都劝不住,拉不住,那就去吧!

最好到时候再来一个事后总结,让我们也好看看结果!

话说我的几个问题还没有理事会成员回答:

QUESTION:

1. The fund of last MM comes from committee account, so who gave the right to committee to spend it?where is the BSIP for vote? if the bts holders agreed the last MM?

2. How much cost?

3. How much income?

4. How many new users?

5. How many daily users?

Please the committee answer these questions!


Where is the fund of the last OMO?what did the committee want to deal with it?

Please the committee answer this questions!

Bitcrab,you are the top committee, the owner of GDEX, the main participator of Gateway,you are the most suitable person to answer these questions.


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Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #41 on: May 28, 2020, 07:21:06 am »
This discussion is useless and more important outdated.
You are hitting a dead horse.


We need non custodial wallets.Everything else will come from itself once you give people what they demand.

Real price feed and security for bitassets owner would be the next step to get back attention to bitassets.

You however want based on the chat logs centralization,full AML and KYC,worst country location for bitshares company slovenia/thailand and stick to gateways (your own business)which lost majority of trust from members.

Once you have these done update dexbot for mirrored offers and create a team like every other big exchange is doing it to tap liquidity from other big exchanges to their own.
A nice example is poloniex on BTS/BTC.
They basicly have no own liquidity but you always have 2-4 BTC buy and sell orders near price.Once somebody sells or buys something poloniex redistributes instantly the order through multiple exchanges.

not only one way work, if you believe your way work well, just try it.
custodial wallet is good, it's possible that sometime in the future the MM logic be put on chain.
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Offline Thul3

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Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #42 on: May 28, 2020, 08:57:51 am »
Why you care about marketing fee so much ?


To push other gateways to be gone ?

You are pushing legal worker of digital lucifer which is the biggest crap ?

First i thought you have no clue what you are supporting but later seeing digital lucifer in action i understood why you are supporting him.

He already started demanding from gateways papers and if they won't deliver till may to kick them out of bitshares.

Is that your plan ?Supporting his crap so you stay as sole gateway on bitshares in hope more and more users will use only your gateway ?

That's why you conficed CN-Vote to vote for it even big part was against it and at foreigners side not a single supporter you can find other than beneficiants ?

What is the purpose of market fee sharing when at the other side you are working hard on it to kick all other gateways out of bitshares?

I reject this MM as it sole purpose is to push a private business GDEX with community funds and nothing else.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2020, 09:28:29 am by Thul3 »

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Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #43 on: May 28, 2020, 09:50:57 am »
Why you care about marketing fee so much ?


To push other gateways to be gone ?

You are pushing legal worker of digital lucifer which is the biggest crap ?

First i thought you have no clue what you are supporting but later seeing digital lucifer in action i understood why you are supporting him.

He already started demanding from gateways papers and if they won't deliver till may to kick them out of bitshares.

Is that your plan ?Supporting his crap so you stay as sole gateway on bitshares in hope more and more users will use only your gateway ?

That's why you conficed CN-Vote to vote for it even big part was against it and at foreigners side not a single supporter you can find other than beneficiants ?

What is the purpose of market fee sharing when at the other side you are working hard on it to kick all other gateways out of bitshares?

I reject this MM as it sole purpose is to push a private business GDEX with community funds and nothing else.

I do not have any idea of kicking other gateways out of bitshares.
but in the MM contest updated rules, the market fee sharing is what gateways pay for the MM service, rudex and xbtsx rejected to participate the MM contest, maybe partly because of this.
no relation with what Digital Lucifer is doing.
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Offline Thul3

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Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #44 on: May 28, 2020, 09:59:41 am »
Why you care about marketing fee so much ?


To push other gateways to be gone ?

You are pushing legal worker of digital lucifer which is the biggest crap ?

First i thought you have no clue what you are supporting but later seeing digital lucifer in action i understood why you are supporting him.

He already started demanding from gateways papers and if they won't deliver till may to kick them out of bitshares.

Is that your plan ?Supporting his crap so you stay as sole gateway on bitshares in hope more and more users will use only your gateway ?

That's why you conficed CN-Vote to vote for it even big part was against it and at foreigners side not a single supporter you can find other than beneficiants ?

What is the purpose of market fee sharing when at the other side you are working hard on it to kick all other gateways out of bitshares?

I reject this MM as it sole purpose is to push a private business GDEX with community funds and nothing else.

I do not have any idea of kicking other gateways out of bitshares.
but in the MM contest updated rules, the market fee sharing is what gateways pay for the MM service, rudex and xbtsx rejected to participate the MM contest, maybe partly because of this.
no relation with what Digital Lucifer is doing.


Really not ?So you are talking with digital lucifer often on wechat supporting his legal worker and pushing it at cn-vote where he is attacking gateway owners acting like the new owner of bitshares demanding papers from all gateways as he had any authority to do it calling them animals and telling them that he is going to kick them out of bitshares as legal and brand owner and you don't know anything about it ?

Funny cause when you saw i read your messages on wechat you kicked me out to be unable to keep reading your talk with digital lucifer how people are idiots who don't like KYC or that people who are against it are criminals hiding behind anonymous names and that DL will get all their Data and clean the shit.

You don't know anything about it when you talk staff like that with him in a closed wechat group ?And still you are supporting it ?
Looks for me like a clear agenda behind it.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2020, 10:02:51 am by Thul3 »

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Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #45 on: May 28, 2020, 11:13:20 am »

Rather than rejecting this and that, can we start a discussion about what is acceptable? E.G. what fee percent is acceptable for you? 1%? 5%? 10%? 20%? 30%?



10% is real. If this money is used to develop Bitshares and strengthen the brand in the market, we will support this proposal.

Important! Payments will be made in traded tokens? or the exchange will need to make an exchange for BTS? Tokens are highly volatile and providing each project with a cost is not profitable for the gateway.

Very important!!! It is necessary to reduce the commission for creating an asset. Due to the high commissions, there are difficulties to add new coins. These huge commissions interfere with the work of the exchange. We wanted to add most of the popular coins to the exchange, but because of such a quick (without warning, announcement, etc.) raising commissions, our work on adding coins is limited! Raising asset creation fees makes Bitshares too expensive! White lists have now appeared, and this protects users from fraudulent assets.

ABOUT MM: We said that we would not take part in the next MM contest. We want to look at the example of Gdex how new competition will work. And maybe we'll take part.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2020, 11:18:09 am by EuropaSH »
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Offline blockchained

Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #46 on: May 28, 2020, 11:58:07 am »

We already paying blockchain fees, so this double taxation looks more like a tribute for the existing businesses this is not acceptable.

I told you and I repeat you not once that taxation is a worse idea that pops up in your head, a community that for the year couldn't imagine/invent anything smarter/better than bring/build taxation in blockchain for a few existing small businesses on top of it are going in a rekt direction


Chinese community, mark my words, with such ideas for the bitshares upgrade you will roll OUT from top-100 till the end of the year No foreigners, no businesses, no money, just some scammed/broken bitassets, empty markets and "workers" dumping the coin. The bright future for the chain, isn't it?

anyone do not like to pay further fees, easy to understand.


WE PAYING FEES ALREDY

we just don't want to pay this tribute because we well know what happened with OMO fund, also your next one "brilliant" idea

« Last Edit: May 28, 2020, 10:14:31 pm by blockchained »

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Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #47 on: May 28, 2020, 01:06:41 pm »

Rather than rejecting this and that, can we start a discussion about what is acceptable? E.G. what fee percent is acceptable for you? 1%? 5%? 10%? 20%? 30%?



10% is real. If this money is used to develop Bitshares and strengthen the brand in the market, we will support this proposal.

Important! Payments will be made in traded tokens? or the exchange will need to make an exchange for BTS? Tokens are highly volatile and providing each project with a cost is not profitable for the gateway.

As bsip 86 described, fees would be deducted from trading directly, in the trading assets. Gateways don't need to do anything special.

Quote

Very important!!! It is necessary to reduce the commission for creating an asset. Due to the high commissions, there are difficulties to add new coins. These huge commissions interfere with the work of the exchange. We wanted to add most of the popular coins to the exchange, but because of such a quick (without warning, announcement, etc.) raising commissions, our work on adding coins is limited! Raising asset creation fees makes Bitshares too expensive! White lists have now appeared, and this protects users from fraudulent assets.
I understand the difficulties, and sorry for that.

The raising of asset creation fee was brought by community members to fight scam activities.

I suppose that the fee will be lowered after 4.0 hard fork, around 2 months away from now. However, if there is high demand it can be lowered sooner.

Quote

ABOUT MM: We said that we would not take part in the next MM contest. We want to look at the example of Gdex how new competition will work. And maybe we'll take part.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2020, 01:08:38 pm by abit »
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Offline bitcrab

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Re: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)
« Reply #48 on: May 28, 2020, 02:21:39 pm »
Why you care about marketing fee so much ?


To push other gateways to be gone ?

You are pushing legal worker of digital lucifer which is the biggest crap ?

First i thought you have no clue what you are supporting but later seeing digital lucifer in action i understood why you are supporting him.

He already started demanding from gateways papers and if they won't deliver till may to kick them out of bitshares.

Is that your plan ?Supporting his crap so you stay as sole gateway on bitshares in hope more and more users will use only your gateway ?

That's why you conficed CN-Vote to vote for it even big part was against it and at foreigners side not a single supporter you can find other than beneficiants ?

What is the purpose of market fee sharing when at the other side you are working hard on it to kick all other gateways out of bitshares?

I reject this MM as it sole purpose is to push a private business GDEX with community funds and nothing else.

I do not have any idea of kicking other gateways out of bitshares.
but in the MM contest updated rules, the market fee sharing is what gateways pay for the MM service, rudex and xbtsx rejected to participate the MM contest, maybe partly because of this.
no relation with what Digital Lucifer is doing.


Really not ?So you are talking with digital lucifer often on wechat supporting his legal worker and pushing it at cn-vote where he is attacking gateway owners acting like the new owner of bitshares demanding papers from all gateways as he had any authority to do it calling them animals and telling them that he is going to kick them out of bitshares as legal and brand owner and you don't know anything about it ?

Funny cause when you saw i read your messages on wechat you kicked me out to be unable to keep reading your talk with digital lucifer how people are idiots who don't like KYC or that people who are against it are criminals hiding behind anonymous names and that DL will get all their Data and clean the shit.

You don't know anything about it when you talk staff like that with him in a closed wechat group ?And still you are supporting it ?
Looks for me like a clear agenda behind it.
I have talked with Digital Lucifer in wechat, but mainly on core worker.
his legal worker is not approved yet, and I support the worker only means I support him to do the relevant work, not means I support that he had any authority as you described.
I had kicked you out of any wechat group? if that had happen that should because sometime you are not committee member anymore so I kicked you out of a committee group, just that, not as you described.
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