Author Topic: BTS-DEX economic model(updated MM contest rule)  (Read 9533 times)

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Offline blockchained

It's clear that there is a conflict of interest on your side. As a gateway you want the platform to help you more so you can earn more, and it's better to pay less to the platform, on the other hand, as a BTS holder you probably want the platform to earn more from the gateways.

so now gateways are not members of the community? not bts holders that by the activities spending more on the blockchain fees than average holder that just sit on the bag and pay no fees to the platform?
why we have blockchain fees then?

Before talking "conflict of interest" and "earnings" just take a calculator and calculate so-called profit of the gateways it is public on the blockchain. Bitshares as a blockchain for gateway business already failed that's why gateways run away and stop their services, did you noticed that? Because no fish there, nobody uses it really, nor ICOs nor traders. So from the point of view of the business after this changes it better to migrate service, less spends. Why do I need to use bts engine with double taxation as a gateway service/cex on top of it if I could use other dex engines on other blockchains with no fees at all?. Our customers mainly our community that come to rudex and trade our UIA mostly, but still paying blockchain fees. Why do we need to stay here with our community? 
And as a bts holder, I understand if the businesses will continue to migrate from bitshares, BTS would be worthless very soon.

This bsip make borders for the new gateways and push out those that exist, what value in it? tell me

Why the community must pay for this development instead of something valuable that bring something to bitshares and not push out and force to dump this coin. Do you understand how ridiculous this situation is?

Yes, Chinese pushed the de-peg of bitassets, but without the great support of Thule, your friend, it shouldn't have been done.

it was your and bitcrab idea no one to blame besides you two

Rather than rejecting this and that, can we start a discussion about what is acceptable? E.G. what fee percent is acceptable for you? 1%? 5%? 10%? 20%? 30%?

You don't understand that this tribute not acceptable at all

It's clear that there is a conflict of interest on your side
From my point of view "conflict of interest" it is you who seating as a witness, committee and worker at the same time. Чья бы корова мычала.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2020, 06:35:29 pm by blockchained »

Offline abit

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if finally the voting decided to set the rate to 0, market fee will not be shared
We already paying blockchain fees, so this double taxation looks more like a tribute for the existing businesses this is not acceptable.

Rather than rejecting this and that, can we start a discussion about what is acceptable? E.G. what fee percent is acceptable for you? 1%? 5%? 10%? 20%? 30%?

It's clear that there is a conflict of interest on your side. As a gateway you want the platform to help you more so you can earn more, and it's better to pay less to the platform, on the other hand, as a BTS holder you probably want the platform to earn more from the gateways.

I am NOT running a gateway so I am mostly on the side of the platform. Yet I seek for win-win situations.

The question is just that, what CAN WE DO to both benefit the platform and the gateways? Don't tell me doing nothing is the answer. In the past there are enough times we did nothing and the situation went worse.

Here are some potential options I can see to increase income:
* the committee increases basic operation fees (zero cost, maybe higher or lower final income)
* the committee makes use of bsip86 (zero cost, maybe higher or lower final income)
* the community use some funds (committee or worker) to encourage trading, in hope of gaining more income (some costs, maybe higher or lower final income)

What do you think?

Quote
I told you and I repeat you not once that taxation is a worse idea that pops up in your head, a community that for the year couldn't imagine/invent anything smarter/better than bring/build taxation in blockchain for a few existing small businesses on top of it are going in a rekt direction

Chinese community, mark my words, with such ideas for the bitshares upgrade you will roll OUT from top-100 till the end of the year No foreigners, no businesses, no money, just some scammed/broken bitassets, empty markets and "workers" dumping the coin. The bright future for the chain, isn't it?
What's your SOLUTION then?

You know which gateways scammed the community. Not Chinese.

You know who (workers or not) dumped the hardest. Not Chinese.

Yes, Chinese pushed the de-peg of bitassets, but without the great support of Thule, your friend, it shouldn't have been done.
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Offline blockchained


after the launching of 4.0, the BSIP86 parameter will be determined by voting, I agree that the community need be careful/conservative on this, if finally the voting decided to set the rate to 0, market fee will not be shared.

however in my view, it's good that gateway pay some further fee and the platform provide some further public service, GDEX has bought MM service from providers, it's expensive and not so satisfactory, the MM contest actually provide good service and is potential to be better, when MM contest helps GDEX, GDEX will contribute to community with better depth, more active trading and also more system income, the rules will be continuously updated to make it more easy for voters to estimate how it works well enough.

As a gateway that participated and observed previous mm contest, I can say that it is bring nothing, just some money to the bots that trading on gdex

if it so good use it for your own business proof that it's worth something. But NO you prefer to do it by the community money because it looks like to spend money on MM contest from reserve pool it is the only way how you make money on this so-called MM contest.

if finally the voting decided to set the rate to 0, market fee will not be shared
We already paying blockchain fees, so this double taxation looks more like a tribute for the existing businesses this is not acceptable.

I told you and I repeat you not once that taxation is a worse idea that pops up in your head, a community that for the year couldn't imagine/invent anything smarter/better than bring/build taxation in blockchain for a few existing small businesses on top of it are going in a rekt direction


Chinese community, mark my words, with such ideas for the bitshares upgrade you will roll OUT from top-100 till the end of the year No foreigners, no businesses, no money, just some scammed/broken bitassets, empty markets and "workers" dumping the coin. The bright future for the chain, isn't it?
« Last Edit: May 27, 2020, 02:55:33 pm by blockchained »

Offline binggo

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the "tax" can be considered as the fee for utilizing the DEX infrastructure
We already paying blockchain fees for utilizing the DEX infrastructure, so it is just double taxation for the businesses, It obvious that you don't care about some private tokens like "ZALUPA", you couldn't get any profit from this

Who will manage the taxation fund?
Who will get money for the management of this fund?

It is a rhetorical question because everyone in the community knows that it will be your or members associated with you, so tell me more about how you were against this bsip 

Community well remember the SPRING thing or committee-cnytrader operations, do you have the same brilliant plans for taxation funds?

after the launching of 4.0, the BSIP86 parameter will be determined by voting, I agree that the community need be careful/conservative on this, if finally the voting decided to set the rate to 0, market fee will not be shared.

however in my view, it's good that gateway pay some further fee and the platform provide some further public service, GDEX has bought MM service from providers, it's expensive and not so satisfactory, the MM contest actually provide good service and is potential to be better, when MM contest helps GDEX, GDEX will contribute to community with better depth, more active trading and also more system income, the rules will be continuously updated to make it more easy for voters to estimate how it works well enough.

You are kidding something, if MM so good, why GDEX did not spend own money to do it in such long time? why you want to spend community money so eagerly?

If it was so good, GDEX can spend own money to do MM,then show the result to community and calculate how many new users and how much income,how much cost!!!


QUESTION:

1. The fund of last MM comes from committee account, so who gave the right to committee to spend it?where is the BSIP for vote? if the bts holders agreed the last MM?

2. How much cost?

3. How much income?

4. How many new users?

5. How many daily users?

Please the committee answer these questions!


Where is the fund of the last OMO?what did the committee want to deal with it?

Please the committee answer this questions!

Bitcrab,you are the top committee, the owner of GDEX, the main participator of Gateway,you are the most suitable person to answer these questions.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2020, 11:54:42 am by binggo »

Offline Thul3

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This discussion is useless and more important outdated.
You are hitting a dead horse.


We need non custodial wallets.Everything else will come from itself once you give people what they demand.

Real price feed and security for bitassets owner would be the next step to get back attention to bitassets.

You however want based on the chat logs centralization,full AML and KYC,worst country location for bitshares company slovenia/thailand and stick to gateways (your own business)which lost majority of trust from members.

Once you have these done update dexbot for mirrored offers and create a team like every other big exchange is doing it to tap liquidity from other big exchanges to their own.
A nice example is poloniex on BTS/BTC.
They basicly have no own liquidity but you always have 2-4 BTC buy and sell orders near price.Once somebody sells or buys something poloniex redistributes instantly the order through multiple exchanges.

 
« Last Edit: May 27, 2020, 11:29:21 am by Thul3 »

Offline bitcrab

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the "tax" can be considered as the fee for utilizing the DEX infrastructure
We already paying blockchain fees for utilizing the DEX infrastructure, so it is just double taxation for the businesses, It obvious that you don't care about some private tokens like "ZALUPA", you couldn't get any profit from this

Who will manage the taxation fund?
Who will get money for the management of this fund?

It is a rhetorical question because everyone in the community knows that it will be your or members associated with you, so tell me more about how you were against this bsip 

Community well remember the SPRING thing or committee-cnytrader operations, do you have the same brilliant plans for taxation funds?

after the launching of 4.0, the BSIP86 parameter will be determined by voting, I agree that the community need be careful/conservative on this, if finally the voting decided to set the rate to 0, market fee will not be shared.

however in my view, it's good that gateway pay some further fee and the platform provide some further public service, GDEX has bought MM service from providers, it's expensive and not so satisfactory, the MM contest actually provide good service and is potential to be better, when MM contest helps GDEX, GDEX will contribute to community with better depth, more active trading and also more system income, the rules will be continuously updated to make it more easy for voters to estimate how it works well enough.

 
Email:bitcrab@qq.com

Offline blockchained

BSIP86 is the result of a long discussion
name 1 more gateway who participated in this discussion besides you?
With what businesses that operate on top of bitshares you discussed it in "a long discussion"? who are they? I'm really curious

a percent fee from UIA market fee will be good to build a great ecosystem
it would be the last nail in the coffin. The first one was also YOURS bsip42 from what began all this mess


the "tax" can be considered as the fee for utilizing the DEX infrastructure
We already paying blockchain fees for utilizing the DEX infrastructure, so it is just double taxation for the businesses, It obvious that you don't care about some private tokens like "ZALUPA", you couldn't get any profit from this

Who will manage the taxation fund?
Who will get money for the management of this fund?

It is a rhetorical question because everyone in the community knows that it will be your or members associated with you, so tell me more about how you were against this bsip 

Community well remember the SPRING thing or committee-cnytrader operations, do you have the same brilliant plans for taxation funds?
« Last Edit: May 25, 2020, 07:56:23 pm by blockchained »

Offline bitcrab

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Can you tell us more about double tax? And who will pay? - All gateways that work on Bitshares, including your gateway. All payment systems such as PalmPay? As well as coins that are issued to Bitshares as an asset that management their business, for example, Evraz or CloudCoin (the original cloudcoin is not a blockchain, but they have an asset in Bitshares).

What opportunities will appear in the Bitshares after the introduction of a double tax?

What are the benefits of gateways that work on Bitshares?
XBTS make ads for Bitshares, do services and games in which we add BTS, etc.

For all the time that we have been working for Bitshares, and this is 2 years, the system has not had any advertising campaigns. Several conferences were held, but did they give a result? At the same time, the cost of these conferences was very high.

As you remember, last year there was a wave of mass closure of exchanges for various reasons, this greatly affected the reputation of Bitshares and those exchanges that continued to work well.

The increase in the cost of creating an asset, especially in times of crisis, complicates the listing process and makes it more expensive, which significantly reduces the opportunities for new projects. Many choose Waves dex as an alternative or go to other exchanges.

Based on the concept of the work of the workers, there is a question:
Why do Bitshares still lack a beautiful adaptive interface? The interface  has been paid, and done, why is it unavailable? Maybe it’s worth considering the option of returning funds from workers who did not fulfill what they promised?
And why were the worker proposal completed if the work was not completed?

Now you want to introduce an additional tax on the gateways that work and bring profit to the system. Each gateway has its own vision of development, gateways are not slaves of the blockchain. Gateways are partners of the blockchain.

Alternative solution:
Why waste time updating the core and introducing taxation if there is a solution for everyone. Raise the fee in the network to 5 BTS per action and the network profit will be 5 times higher.

If you decide to only tax the gateways, then the gateways should be in the witnesses, the gateways will return the BTS back to the blockchain and continue to develop.

It is not "only tax gateways", BSIP86 will "tax" all UIAs, and it is not "I decide", BSIP86 is the result of a long discussion, as a gateway founder at first I am against this idea, but step by step I accept the idea from abit and some other people, I become agree that charging a percent fee from UIA market fee will be good to build a great ecosystem.  the "tax" can be considered as the fee for utilizing the DEX infrastructure.
Email:bitcrab@qq.com

Offline EuropaSH

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We use other mechanisms to encourage traders. Our model is Staking https://xbts.io/smart-holder . Staking Program on the XBTS exchange has been working for 2 years. Also, our traders earn cryptocurrency by participating in promotions, games and other activities. This attracts new users to the exchange and the entire ecosystem.

seems the volume is small yet?
kindly reminding: after the launch of BTS4.0, all the gateway assets need to share market fee to system, either participate the MM contest or not.


Can you tell us more about double tax? And who will pay? - All gateways that work on Bitshares, including your gateway. All payment systems such as PalmPay? As well as coins that are issued to Bitshares as an asset that management their business, for example, Evraz or CloudCoin (the original cloudcoin is not a blockchain, but they have an asset in Bitshares).

What opportunities will appear in the Bitshares after the introduction of a double tax?

What are the benefits of gateways that work on Bitshares?
XBTS make ads for Bitshares, do services and games in which we add BTS, etc.

For all the time that we have been working for Bitshares, and this is 2 years, the system has not had any advertising campaigns. Several conferences were held, but did they give a result? At the same time, the cost of these conferences was very high.

As you remember, last year there was a wave of mass closure of exchanges for various reasons, this greatly affected the reputation of Bitshares and those exchanges that continued to work well.

The increase in the cost of creating an asset, especially in times of crisis, complicates the listing process and makes it more expensive, which significantly reduces the opportunities for new projects. Many choose Waves dex as an alternative or go to other exchanges.

Based on the concept of the work of the workers, there is a question:
Why do Bitshares still lack a beautiful adaptive interface? The interface  has been paid, and done, why is it unavailable? Maybe it’s worth considering the option of returning funds from workers who did not fulfill what they promised?
And why were the worker proposal completed if the work was not completed?

Now you want to introduce an additional tax on the gateways that work and bring profit to the system. Each gateway has its own vision of development, gateways are not slaves of the blockchain. Gateways are partners of the blockchain.

Alternative solution:
Why waste time updating the core and introducing taxation if there is a solution for everyone. Raise the fee in the network to 5 BTS per action and the network profit will be 5 times higher.

If you decide to only tax the gateways, then the gateways should be in the witnesses, the gateways will return the BTS back to the blockchain and continue to develop.
BTS committee member: europa
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XBTS DEX EXCHANGE FOR TRADERS AND GAMERS https://xbts.io

Offline bench

it's easy to call bitCNY and bitUSD scamcoin, it's difficult to make BTS grow up and resume bitCNY and bitUSD.

Yes, it is very easy to say:
- because borrower did not use the chance to pay their debt back, when bitUSD/bitCNY has a huge discount.
- because market fees where not used to finance the reserve pool or to support development.
- because my suggestion to lower feed price threshold every day by 0.5%, is still not implemented.
- because we have with HONEST.Assets a working alternative.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2020, 02:48:19 pm by bench »
Be part of the change and vote for the bitshares-vision proxy!

Offline blockchained

Gateways are not forced to participate the MM contest, but BSIP86 will apply for all.

not for all, just for you

Ol- gone, bitspark - gone, cryptobridge - gone, deex - gone, easydex - gone, escodex - gone, etc. You haven't asked any 1 gateway about these changes beside yourself.

Ask the Chinese community are they ready to stay on this chain by themself with no foreigners? Is it worth it?

We already start looking for an alternative platform to migrate our service if these updates will pass (we love bitshares as an instrument and we've helped to develop and popularise it in our community but we do not agree with this way for bitshares) anyway our main trades between our own pairs. We use bitshares as a matching engine and we don't want to be a double-taxed, but we already have a loyal community of traders that will leave with us. Bitshares a long time ago lost the race for only dex engine in the crypto space. So you will be monopolist and you will control the budget that worthless on a platform that nobody uses and nobody interested especially when bitshares loose top-100 positions. For sure you know a statistic and you know how bad this statistic.

Look at ALL your MM proposals and where they lead us in the end, I don't think that it is possible to find something besides failure. If I'm wrong please show me the result of the previous MM contest or what a result you have of previous fee managing from the bitAssets?

 Greed is a bad advisor, stupid greed especially 
« Last Edit: May 25, 2020, 01:36:05 pm by blockchained »

Offline binggo

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You gave a stupid example, and you still didn't know what bts it is, you are confusing bts and gateway.

The gateway want to do what is their freedom, bts didn't have any right to ask them to do what, they can do the thing what they think is right and suitable, this is their business.

Bts is just a service provider, it charges the network fees for its service, when bts want to charge the market fees from gateway, then bts cross over the line.

MM is not the bts needed, it can't make bts greater or better.

If the mechanism is so good, why GDEX didn't use it in GDEX in the past few years? it seems the GDP have been failed.

if one people decided to fight against one thing or one person, he can always find excuse.

BSIP86 is on the way of development, it will be launched in recent future, after finishing all necessary procedure, following the DPoS principle.

Gateways are not forced to participate the MM contest, but BSIP86 will apply for all.

don't always talk as you are the proxy of BTS.

What you act just like a kid, never to recognize his failure.

When BSIP86 bring the lawsuit to BTS, i hope you can come out to face it and don't say it is the decision of bts holder.

I do what is my freedom, but you did something to bts, i have the right to supervise.

Go to get the legal counsel for BSIP86 from them,if you or them still a committee of BTS, don't act like a kid, use your head!

https://www.bitshares.foundation/workers/2020-01-bitshares-legal-representative

Offline bitcrab

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You gave a stupid example, and you still didn't know what bts it is, you are confusing bts and gateway.

The gateway want to do what is their freedom, bts didn't have any right to ask them to do what, they can do the thing what they think is right and suitable, this is their business.

Bts is just a service provider, it charges the network fees for its service, when bts want to charge the market fees from gateway, then bts cross over the line.

MM is not the bts needed, it can't make bts greater or better.

If the mechanism is so good, why GDEX didn't use it in GDEX in the past few years? it seems the GDP have been failed.

if one people decided to fight against one thing or one person, he can always find excuse.

BSIP86 is on the way of development, it will be launched in recent future, after finishing all necessary procedure, following the DPoS principle.

Gateways are not forced to participate the MM contest, but BSIP86 will apply for all.

don't always talk as you are the proxy of BTS.

Email:bitcrab@qq.com

Offline R

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bitAssets include bitCNY, bitUSD

Why include known scam coins in this? Reject.

Offline binggo

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 A: a gov provide poor public service, with low tax rate.
 B: a gov provide high quality public service, with higher tax rate.

it is possible that B is better than A. we need to try.

MM is a service that any exchange need, MM contest is a mechanism that distributing the MM task, I am sad that you call it "money-grabbing", however, I believe that this mechanism will contribute greatly to BTS with continuous update and optimization.

 

You gave a stupid example, and you still didn't know what bts it is, you are confusing bts and gateway.

The gateway want to do what is their freedom, bts didn't have any right to ask them to do what, they can do the thing what they think is right and suitable, this is their business.

Bts is just a service provider, it charges the network fees for its service, when bts want to charge the market fees from gateway, then bts cross over the line.

MM is not the bts needed, it can't make bts greater or better.

If the mechanism is so good, why GDEX didn't use it in GDEX in the past few years? it seems the GDP have been failed.