111* days estimated for Difficulty to retarget. Could this kill PTS?

[barwizi]

either i'm the only one with a good memory or most of you were not around when a similar situation arose.

there was once a coin called China coin CNC, it died, a horrible death after the devs failed to deal with this similar situation. Get off that high horse and realize that it's mining that keeps the chain moving and transactions confirming. This will continue sliding and loosing value, moreover if a new DAC was announced in the coming few days, miners would return and mine...the price will rise and so will the difficulty. After the snapshot, it will be abandoned again, this time with even higher difficulty and worse dumping because people will be expecting the price drop.

know that how you deal with the situation reflects on your commitment to PTS holders.
 

[Hukkel]

Read my reply above yours.

[unsoindovo]

Correct me if I'm wrong but if now since the total hashing power of the PTS network is dropped significantly, will difficulty not auto adjust down at the next retarget? So all miners should just chill for a month and come back mid-April. (Obviously keep some seed nodes up.)

from specification...

Specifications
POW Hash: Momentum (2^26 / 2^50) with SHA512 Generation
Block target: 5 minutes
Difficulty Retargeting: 4032 Blocks
Difficulty Retargeting target: 2 Weeks
Port: 3888
Codebase: Bitcoin 0.8.5
No premine.
Block reward: 50 PTS, 5% reduction every 2016 blocks
Total coins: Around 2 million, with 1% inflation after 2 years

if i understand, retarget every 14days...but last retarget date was 22 feb 2014, so retarget would was on 9 march 2014, but it was not...
can you explain me plz???

[Hukkel]

It retargets at a certain number of blocks mined. If we all stop mining today the difficulty will stay the same forever. Only if a good proportion would still mine the diff will drop when we reach a certain number of blocks. It is not a "date" thing.

[CryptoN8]

Correct me if I'm wrong but if now since the total hashing power of the PTS network is dropped significantly, will difficulty not auto adjust down at the next retarget? So all miners should just chill for a month and come back mid-April. (Obviously keep some seed nodes up.)

[Hukkel]

I guess if it is bothersome is down to the development team.
The original plan to have these snapshots surely killed the mining community.
Everyone kept their PTS for the snapshot. Price per PTS was over 200%. Because of this the amount of coll/m in total was crazy high.
Snapshot is over. All short term miners dumped their PTS. Value per PTS drops like crazy to now around even 60% of the Original stable value of around 0,013-0,015.
Every miner stopped mining because profitability has dropped to a value far below other coins out there.

Now we're stuck at a value of 0,0095 and a diff that is over twice as high as it was during the previous period.

If Invictus wants to have all their PTS mined then this is not the correct way, if they simply do not care then that is that


Is there any lookout on a second snapshot moment yet?

Or even a date when people can upgrade the wallet and obtain the BTS-X?

[valtr]

Buying AGS is more useful than mining, except to power companies.

  Also, since PTS is basically an investment vehicle and not an instant payment system, I don't really care if blocks take 30 minutes or an hour.  Additionally, if the PTS mining is slower, that means that the PTS I already have will command a higher share in new DACs released before all PTS are mined.

Adjusting the block targeting system would require forking, and hardly seems justified.  The current system is working predictably, and no one is being cheated or harmed.  I expect the market price of PTS to continue rising overall until the next snapshot, and the difficulty will eventually correct.  Unfortunately the price of PTS already seems to be rising and I'm still waiting on Coinbase for my BTC. 

[bitcoinba]

Miners are going to start mining easier or more profitable coins which will likely cause the PTS price to decline further

That's backwards though, miners by necessity dump their coins to cover their costs so if there are fewer miners then there's less downwards pressure on the price. If everyone who is in it for mining profit leaves then the only people left mining are people running nodes for the sake of keeping PTS up who will not dump their coins. Why do people think more miners causes a higher price? Am I missing something?

You have it perfectly straight toast....  claiming miners increase price is like claiming wet sidewalks cause rain.

[liondani]

I agree with barwizi, this *is* a major problem because while you have no intention of doing anything with your stock of hundreds of thousands of PTS, it means anyone trying to use PTS as a cryptocurrency, it works worse than the majority of coins out there and the only reason is because Invictus sucked the value out of PTS without doing any sort of job explaining why someone would want it in the future.

Something like this for example https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=3363.0

You solve the miners-not-caring problem by making it likely they'll have a reason to care in the future.  It would have been better if that had been articulated and incentivized before removing Bitshares from Protoshares but doing it now is better than doing it later. 

Manage. Expectations.  or hire a CEO who will.

Incidentally Daniel, are you the perm CEO at Invictus?  I was under the impression when we spoke in December that you were moving to the CTO role and bringing in someone on the business side to take over as CEO/Frontman

Did that change?

[barwizi]

either kimoto or the updated PPC retarget used for NRS.   

[Schwede65]

Your guys offhand remarks make me wonder if there is an ulterior motive for not trying to correct this. As suggested by user Schwede65 and FreeTrade, implement the Kimoto gravity well or something. Can that even be done at this point? If not, why?

I think the "is what it is" attitude is very concerning given your position.

Your coin has the potential to dry up. I don't know for sure, but the potential is there and if there is something you can do, you probably should.

i haven't found an answer to this concern - changing + updating this old fashioned PTS-retarget-time!

Edit: there is a huge amount of donations, then please call out a bounty to correct this flaw!

Edit 2: it's only a technical flaw - we need no more "blah, blah, blah..."

[bytemaster]

No.  Pts buying is good. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Troglodactyl]

Buying AGS is more useful than mining, except to power companies.  Also, since PTS is basically an investment vehicle and not an instant payment system, I don't really care if blocks take 30 minutes or an hour.  Additionally, if the PTS mining is slower, that means that the PTS I already have will command a higher share in new DACs released before all PTS are mined.

Adjusting the block targeting system would require forking, and hardly seems justified.  The current system is working predictably, and no one is being cheated or harmed.  I expect the market price of PTS to continue rising overall until the next snapshot, and the difficulty will eventually correct.  Unfortunately the price of PTS already seems to be rising and I'm still waiting on Coinbase for my BTC. 

[NewMine]

Let's keep it simple, tell me which of these you disagree with:

1) The only way for the price to go up is for people to buy
2) The only way for the price to go down is for people to sell
3) Miners sell more than they buy

This is why mining and AGS are more or less identical.  Miners are effectively BUYING PTS with their hash power.  When they can BUY LOW via mining and SELL high it creates an arb opportunity which drives more miners into the mix.   Right now mining is like buying HIGH.   

This can create a feedback loop where people stop mining because it isn't profitable, then leave a coin because transaction times are slow, then this causes the price to drop which causes more miners to leave, etc.   This feedback loop only applies to coins that get their value from being a currency competitor.  PTS gets its value for a different reason and thus the price will not fall simply because of long transaction times.   There are some people willing to mine and forget and these people continue to mine. 

The number of transactions-per-day supported by the network are not effected by this.

Would you rather everyone just buy AGS at this point?

[bytemaster]

Let's keep it simple, tell me which of these you disagree with:

1) The only way for the price to go up is for people to buy
2) The only way for the price to go down is for people to sell
3) Miners sell more than they buy

This is why mining and AGS are more or less identical.  Miners are effectively BUYING PTS with their hash power.  When they can BUY LOW via mining and SELL high it creates an arb opportunity which drives more miners into the mix.   Right now mining is like buying HIGH.   

This can create a feedback loop where people stop mining because it isn't profitable, then leave a coin because transaction times are slow, then this causes the price to drop which causes more miners to leave, etc.   This feedback loop only applies to coins that get their value from being a currency competitor.  PTS gets its value for a different reason and thus the price will not fall simply because of long transaction times.   There are some people willing to mine and forget and these people continue to mine. 

The number of transactions-per-day supported by the network are not effected by this.