Author Topic: 111* days estimated for Difficulty to retarget. Could this kill PTS?  (Read 33690 times)

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Offline bytemaster

Re: 42 days estimated for Difficulty to retarget. Could this kill PTS?
« Reply #195 on: April 16, 2014, 04:20:40 pm »
It is very simple why we don't change PTS with a hard fork:

1) Mining Rewards Dilute other PTS holders who are buy and hold... these holders are the ones we want to keep and they do not care about transaction speed.
2) POW is a dead-end system
3) Time & Effort to fix this would only delay actual product releases.

I am very surprised that the difficulty is so volatile, it proves the point that (most) miners are opportunistic profit seekers with no concern for the network.  This helps make our case for DPOS.

If someone were to set up a Bitcoin mining pool that paid an extra 1 BTC per block they would quickly get near 51%.... once they get near 51% then then can produce 100% of all blocks with just a small amount of secret hash power that ignores all other mining pools work.  This will force the 49% miners to join the 51% or earn nothing.   Having to earn money to pay off their investment in mining hardware, you can bet they would join the 51%. 

Once you have 51% you can freeze accounts and dictate transaction fees.  So you raise the fees you charge which profits the miners even more and helps secure their loyalty.   Sure some may object on philosophical reasons... but I doubt 51% will object on those grounds. 

Given the flawed model of POW the daily snapshots we are taking, etc... there is nothing to be gained by introducing a hard fork into PTS.
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Offline CalabiYau

Re: 42 days estimated for Difficulty to retarget. Could this kill PTS?
« Reply #196 on: April 16, 2014, 04:40:52 pm »
My miners are just running to protect my investment whatever this annoying up & downs looks like. I prefer ressources pointed towards useful efforts.

Offline NewMine

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Re: 42 days estimated for Difficulty to retarget. Could this kill PTS?
« Reply #197 on: April 16, 2014, 06:26:31 pm »
It is very simple why we don't change PTS with a hard fork:

1) Mining Rewards Dilute other PTS holders who are buy and hold... these holders are the ones we want to keep and they do not care about transaction speed.
2) POW is a dead-end system
3) Time & Effort to fix this would only delay actual product releases.

1) Dilution was priced in when you chose the 2million share float.
2)All the more reason you should give it a crutch to limp steadily to finish line.
3) Product has been delayed for less important things, conferences, videos, everything else not devoted to pure product development (this is debatable to others).

Offline NewMine

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Re: 42 days estimated for Difficulty to retarget. Could this kill PTS?
« Reply #198 on: April 16, 2014, 07:03:48 pm »

I am very surprised that the difficulty is so volatile, it proves the point that (most) miners are opportunistic profit seekers with no concern for the network.  This helps make our case for DPOS.

Should all miners be charities beholden to a flawed design?

Offline NewMine

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Re: 42 days estimated for Difficulty to retarget. Could this kill PTS?
« Reply #199 on: April 16, 2014, 07:25:54 pm »

If someone were to set up a Bitcoin mining pool that paid an extra 1 BTC per block they would quickly get near 51%.... once they get near 51% then then can produce 100% of all blocks with just a small amount of secret hash power that ignores all other mining pools work.  This will force the 49% miners to join the 51% or earn nothing.   Having to earn money to pay off their investment in mining hardware, you can bet they would join the 51%. 

Once you have 51% you can freeze accounts and dictate transaction fees.  So you raise the fees you charge which profits the miners even more and helps secure their loyalty.   Sure some may object on philosophical reasons... but I doubt 51% will object on those grounds. 

This is slippery slope. 

Doesn't letting PTS chug along in a smaller slower network make that attack easier?

Offline bytemaster

Re: 42 days estimated for Difficulty to retarget. Could this kill PTS?
« Reply #200 on: April 16, 2014, 07:54:40 pm »
No because the value of pts is the social contract which is transferable on the daily snapshots.   We will soon migrate pts to dpos and this problem will go away. 


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Offline sfinder

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Re: 42 days estimated for Difficulty to retarget. Could this kill PTS?
« Reply #201 on: April 16, 2014, 08:32:46 pm »
Hi Dan, Just wondering if you change PTS to dpos then do you need to assign 100 Delegates for  PTS network as well or it is a joint mining with BTS network .

No because the value of pts is the social contract which is transferable on the daily snapshots.   We will soon migrate pts to dpos and this problem will go away. 


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Offline bytemaster

Re: 42 days estimated for Difficulty to retarget. Could this kill PTS?
« Reply #202 on: April 16, 2014, 08:38:46 pm »
Each network has its own delegates.


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Offline sfinder

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Re: 42 days estimated for Difficulty to retarget. Could this kill PTS?
« Reply #203 on: April 16, 2014, 09:02:54 pm »

just wondering if that would be possible to have an option that can joint mining with BTS network since for some small DAC it may be difficult to find 100 delegates at the beginning.

Each network has its own delegates.


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Offline toast

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Re: 42 days estimated for Difficulty to retarget. Could this kill PTS?
« Reply #204 on: April 17, 2014, 01:04:22 am »
A delegate can be a delegate for multiple DACs. There will likely be delegates where you can request to be added specifically for this purpose

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Offline NewMine

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Re: 42 days estimated for Difficulty to retarget. Could this kill PTS?
« Reply #205 on: April 17, 2014, 01:21:53 pm »
No because the value of pts is the social contract which is transferable on the daily snapshots.   We will soon migrate pts to dpos and this problem will go away. 


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How will this work? With 350k shares to be distributed before the 2 million mark and inflationary only period? I see it working post share exhaustion but not till then. Is the delegate to act as a faucet? What am I missing?

Offline bytemaster

Re: 42 days estimated for Difficulty to retarget. Could this kill PTS?
« Reply #206 on: April 17, 2014, 04:25:29 pm »
No because the value of pts is the social contract which is transferable on the daily snapshots.   We will soon migrate pts to dpos and this problem will go away. 


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How will this work? With 350k shares to be distributed before the 2 million mark and inflationary only period? I see it working post share exhaustion but not till then. Is the delegate to act as a faucet? What am I missing?

You are missing that PTS has no obligation to mine out all 2 million shares and that the final snapshot on PTS can occur at any time.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline toast

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Re: 42 days estimated for Difficulty to retarget. Could this kill PTS?
« Reply #207 on: April 17, 2014, 04:31:59 pm »
I think it would be good to define the snapshot to be the block that breaks 2m shares. Even better to have the new version ready and have hard-forked the old one to stop producing blocks at that point.
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline burgoboby

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Re: 42 days estimated for Difficulty to retarget. Could this kill PTS?
« Reply #208 on: April 17, 2014, 08:31:33 pm »
No because the value of pts is the social contract which is transferable on the daily snapshots.   We will soon migrate pts to dpos and this problem will go away. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

How will this work? With 350k shares to be distributed before the 2 million mark and inflationary only period? I see it working post share exhaustion but not till then. Is the delegate to act as a faucet? What am I missing?

You are missing that PTS has no obligation to mine out all 2 million shares and that the final snapshot on PTS can occur at any time.

February, 28th spnapshot wasn't the last one ? A new snapshot will happen ? wich purpose ?

Offline Stan

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Re: 42 days estimated for Difficulty to retarget. Could this kill PTS?
« Reply #209 on: April 17, 2014, 08:34:26 pm »
No because the value of pts is the social contract which is transferable on the daily snapshots.   We will soon migrate pts to dpos and this problem will go away. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

How will this work? With 350k shares to be distributed before the 2 million mark and inflationary only period? I see it working post share exhaustion but not till then. Is the delegate to act as a faucet? What am I missing?

You are missing that PTS has no obligation to mine out all 2 million shares and that the final snapshot on PTS can occur at any time.

February, 28th spnapshot wasn't the last one ? A new snapshot will happen ? wich purpose ?

Every new DAC in the pipeline will have its own snapshot when it is ready to launch.  No such dates have been announced by any developers I know of, but you can see many DACs are in various stages of development.
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.