Author Topic: Rest in Peace, DA  (Read 20201 times)

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Offline onceuponatime

Giving 15% to grow the community is good, very good indeed!

Dilution with 15% all current PTS holder is not good BUT PTS holders must be aware of this already, so it is OK!

But the arrogance it takes for Invictus to treat those 15% of PTS  as theirs, as something that belongs to them by some unknown right is, unbelievable!
The arrogance of Stan does not stop there! He goes on to claim that because of their treatment of funds that are not theirs, this whole scheme will actually be very beneficial for the holders of PTS!

‘A lousy 15% plus-up for PTS holders only is not the best we can do! 
We are aiming for 2x, 3x, ... 10x... growth in value’


How about a noble idea – if this promo will be so great, why doesn’t Invictus add  15 % of their own PTS and 15 % of the AGS fund, so the PTS holders benefit  even more???

And the calm, approving response of the community to that outrageous suggestion is sheepish. We deserve our fate if we accept such despicable statements with such calm and notes of happiness.

Simeon II
Date Registered: May 16, 2014, 07:37:53 PMLocal Time:May 20, 2014, 07:44:24 PMLast Active: Today at 07:38:21 PM

Sock puppet?

Offline bytemaster

Quote
But the arrogance it takes for Invictus to treat those 15% of PTS  as theirs, as something that belongs to them...

I suppose everything is a matter of perspective, but currently those funds are earmarked for paying miners to burn electricity.   So the PTS community / shareholders are the ones who should vote on what to do with the remaining PTS.   I3 Ltd (AGS fund) controls something like 20% of PTS and so would benefit greatly (far more than any other single actor) by stopping the dilution of PTS and not giving anything away.   

So it is a question of what the remaining PTS shareholders wish to do.   In the interest of separating development from marketing I have left Stan, Brian, Gregory, and Arlen to work with the community to develop the best plans.    I am not a dictator in these things.

Personally I suggested to them that PTS holders should get some benefit as well: ie give x% to PTS holders.  However, I can also see that we intended there to be equal shares in PTS/AGS long-term. 

In my opinion the arrogance is in assuming we are arrogant.  In reality we are just people trying to do the best by everyone and improve the value of what everyone is holding.

We also would not be changing the deal for PTS holders:  we said that there would be 2M + 1% inflation and reserved the right to fork the chain at any point to upgrade it.  In this particular instance the PTS holders go from having 1% inflation to steady deflation from trx fees.   Still a win for them.


For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline Agent86

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Giving 15% to grow the community is good, very good indeed!

Dilution with 15% all current PTS holder is not good BUT PTS holders must be aware of this already, so it is OK!

But the arrogance it takes for Invictus to treat those 15% of PTS  as theirs, as something that belongs to them...
I can somewhat see why you would like PTS to just stop before the originally planned 2million is reached, however...

Stan is not treating them as his own for his personal profit (huge difference).  Stan and bytemaster had to invest their own money to buy personal PTS & AGS to personally profit from the bitshares project.

Yes, certain decision making for the community is somewhat centralized at the moment.  I think most people invest because they trust Invictus to make good decisions on behalf of the community, and understand that they may not agree with everything.

A lot of communities really suffer because they don't have any communal funds that are spent for everyone's benefit... They are left to beg for donations from the community, and those that don't donate kinda get a free ride from the work and donations of others.

Also, my recommendation if you are worried about 15% is to head over to: http://www1.agsexplorer.com/
Make the commitment, stop sitting on the fence! :)

I don't mean to make light of your concern but try to think of the biggest picture.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2014, 07:25:32 pm by Agent86 »

Offline Simeon II

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Giving 15% to grow the community is good, very good indeed!

Dilution with 15% all current PTS holder is not good BUT PTS holders must be aware of this already, so it is OK!

But the arrogance it takes for Invictus to treat those 15% of PTS  as theirs, as something that belongs to them by some unknown right is, unbelievable!
The arrogance of Stan does not stop there! He goes on to claim that because of their treatment of funds that are not theirs, this whole scheme will actually be very beneficial for the holders of PTS!

‘A lousy 15% plus-up for PTS holders only is not the best we can do! 
We are aiming for 2x, 3x, ... 10x... growth in value’


How about a noble idea – if this promo will be so great, why doesn’t Invictus add  15 % of their own PTS and 15 % of the AGS fund, so the PTS holders benefit  even more???

And the calm, approving response of the community to that outrageous suggestion is sheepish. We deserve our fate if we accept such despicable statements with such calm and notes of happiness.

Offline ebit

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HaHa I sold some to you ;And I had bought back today.
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Offline JakeThePanda

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I seem to be the only one buying any PTS these days.  I think every buy order over the last 2 days has been me.  Maybe I'm the idiot. :-\

Offline Stan

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More details about our rationale

If we simply upgrade to DPOS, mining will end and the remaining ~300,000 PTS will never be created.

That is the same thing as destroying them and has the effect of giving all PTS holders at that time a 15% increase in BIPS (billionths of the money supply).

But our commitment is to always do the best thing we can think of for PTS and AGS holders.
A lousy 15% plus-up for PTS holders only is not the best we can do! 
We are aiming for 2x, 3x, ... 10x... growth in value
- of the whole industry.

That is our definition of "fair"   
:)

Judging from the overwhelming demand in this forum to "do something, anything!" to grow the industry exponentially, it would be simply irresponsible to pass up the opportunity to put the remaining shares into circulation via strategically targeted multi-dimensional promotions.  The forum is full of great ideas for making sure that the BitShares industry really does capture the "Network Effect" to the point where some clever marketer can't fork the code and steal your wealth with a better marketing plan.

So to both protect existing investors and grow the value of their holdings we must use every resource as efficiently as possible to (with apologies to PETA and SPCA) kill as many birds with each PTS stone as possible.

Its all about lining up your shots and playing the game for where the chips will lie when the music stops and the smoke clears. (To mix a few metaphors.)


« Last Edit: May 20, 2014, 01:45:11 pm by Stan »
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Offline ebit

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ETA of the new PTS DPOS version?don't tell me soon,i hate this world :p..if you can not give any ETA,just ignore me :(

ok i see , * or winter... I surrender..

"Or winter" was a a reference to the fact that half the planet is "soon" heading into winter.
(I didn't want to be a Northern Hemisphere chauvinist.)    :)

PTS2 will be out as "soon" as XT has proven DPOS is ready for prime time.

The last "soon" is so good

PTS2  come back
« Last Edit: May 20, 2014, 01:36:21 pm by ebit »
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Offline liondani

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We already left the miners behind by establishing that it is wasteful

 +5%

The only miners right now are the PTS supporters and they loose money right now!
So it is great that they found a solution for the security (DPOS) and not only, and want to distribute the remaining PTS to the public...
Seems like a win-win situation as long as it's done well like Agent86 said  ;)

Offline Stan

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thanks for always having the people from Down Under in mind haha
*or Winter

Ever since i looked up into the night sky from the streets of Canberra and saw that the constellation Orion was upside down I have never forgotten that half the planet spends their time hanging down from their feet.   :)
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Offline Stan

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ETA of the new PTS DPOS version?don't tell me soon,i hate this world :p..if you can not give any ETA,just ignore me :(

ok i see , * or winter... I surrender..

"Or winter" was a a reference to the fact that half the planet is "soon" heading into winter.
(I didn't want to be a Northern Hemisphere chauvinist.)    :)

PTS2 will be out as "soon" as XT has proven DPOS is ready for prime time.

Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline CLains

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I am thinking: Why not?

We already left the miners behind by establishing that it is wasteful, and assuming that our product is good, the only thing that really matters is promotion through giveaways, airdrops, charity, competitions, etc. that force people to pay attention to the product. So long as the product is good, and people pay attention, then the rest will take care of itself.

However, the snapshot must be announced way in advance or else people will miss it. Hmm.. I suspect the PTS price will go up very soon..
« Last Edit: May 20, 2014, 12:53:16 pm by CLains »

Offline liondani

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I think this is an idea that could benefit everyone a lot and get us a lot of attention and good will, as long as it's done well. This is way better than distributing them by mining.

 +5%

Offline Agent86

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I think this is an idea that could benefit everyone a lot and get us a lot of attention and good will, as long as it's done well. This is way better than distributing them by mining.  Burning seems to be a wasted opportunity.

Offline ebit

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dpos come on
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