[canceled] #1 BitShares reward program: Vote for HappyShares and earn BTSX

[xfund]

I think this (to a certain degree) could be a thread to the system (which also exists in POW/Bitcoin and POS/NXT). If it becomes the primary focus of shareholders to get tx fees as a reward for delegating their vote then we have two effects:
1) the focus when choosing delegates is not anymore primarily on trustworthyness, tx fees destroyed (dividends for all), delegates performance etc. but on how much the delegate give back to his voters.
2) economies of scale then play a role with dpos as with pow and (nxt) pos: The one that can profitably run a delegate and still pay more of the tx fees back to his voters than any other delegate will will the voters, which leads to centralization.
So it comes down to whether shareholders loose more by harming the system and this way themselves than gain from the pay back. The conclusion then would be a low reward for delegates to tweek the above calculation in favor of the system.

Normal mode：choose the 100 delegates from the 1000 delegates，for reason:the server configuration ;system maintenance ability ;
In FUND game :choose the 14 delegates from the 27 delegates ，for reason:the server configuration ;system maintenance ability ;reward .

The reward can improve the enthusiasm of retail vote;Why we will focus on retail? Because  they don't care the vote system.

Who will leads to centralization? I think is the dealers .
In addition,everyone can cast opposing votes in any reason.

[happyshares]

bump: HappyShares was canceled see OP!

[liondani]

By paying 2/3 to all shareholders he has already helped increase the dividend for everyone and providing incentive for people to take some time to actually vote for him. 

 

[santaclause102]

I never attacked happyshares personally and rejected the personal attacks towards him. It is likely that he is an honest person. I don't have any other reason to assume anything else. My argument is not against him personally (not at all!) and it is not a gut reaction.

I would appreciate a rational discussion here https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=5868.msg78966#msg78966

What we would need is a comparison of potential gains and potential losses for the individual shareholder and how likely both are. How much would be the pay back per day/month/year per voting power of one xts? Then how likely is it that this leads to centralization if such a voting habit becomes legitimate?

The ecosystem doesn't loose anything if pay back delegates are branded as not beneficial to the system. If no pay back delegate takes of right from the start it will be hard for pay back delegates to come along and gain support in the future. This makes the "buy votes" / "offer more pay back" attack way harder!! 
Again this is in no way an attack on happyshares in person! I hope we can keep the personal and the structural level apart in the discussion

I do understand that happyshares has build up the infrastructure and all that. Why don't you provide delegate service that destroys tx fees and / pr does marketing via website or..... Obviously you have a lot of qualities there as you said you built a website and all you have written sounds very understandable / nice! 

[bytemaster]

Happy I appreciate the effort you are putting into the ecosystem and hope things go well for you.    One thing I can say is that compared to bitcoin we already have a ton of people reinvesting their fees/profits into helping the community in what ever way they can.

By paying 2/3 to all shareholders he has already helped increase the dividend for everyone and providing incentive for people to take some time to actually vote for him.   If he provides a reliable service then the network will continue to function. 

Lets not demonize people because of a gut reaction to "vote buying".  After all votes are personal property and if you think you benefit more by giving your vote to happy than by giving it to someone else then that is legitimate. 

I would encourage everyone to drop the personal attacks and instead make the case for why voting for some other delegate is *BETTER* than voting for happy. 

[happyshares]

We don't have any reason to assume that happyshares has bad intentions! So we should tread him friendly. The reasons not to vote for happyshare's delegates are structural and not personal.

I appreciate your participation. Have you read this https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=5868.msg78966#msg78966 ? I am sure you guys could leverage your skills and servers in another way that is actually beneficial for the whole system.

So why should one vote for delegates without  accompanying service and without added value for the community?

The thing is that you don't add value to the community but to those that voted for you.

HappyShares delegates have proven reliability and > 95% uptime during the dryruns

Why is you account new then?

Thank you delulo.

Why is you account new then?

We were mediocre surprised that regarding the real bitshares chain everything went so fast.
So we were more focused on developing rather than forum communication.

Have you read this https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=5868.msg78966#msg78966 ? I am sure you guys could leverage your skills and servers in another way that is actually beneficial for the whole system.

Very constructive and well-read. We never thought of ending up here as bad guys.
But since we already have sacrificed a lot of time and effort on developing the site and backing logic, we hope to pursue our goal.

So why should one vote for delegates without  accompanying service and without added value for the community?

The thing is that you don't add value to the community but to those that voted for you.

HappyShares will have some network effect, which probably will help BitShares and the community to get even more well known.
Beyond that, we are accountable for the idea behind HappyShares.

Well, as announced, with immediate effect we have reduced the pay rate of all our delegates to 33%.

The guys with more than that can follow up or do us a favor and provide a more relaxed atmosphere, so that other ideas can develop.

[bitmeat]

I think BM should look into solutions to allow more delegates, or after every 100 blocks allow candidate delegates to produce a block in order to gather stats/prove their worth.

  for something like that!

hope it comes not to late...

It will, he already said he likes the idea, but it's good to let ideas stew for awhile, to find the best approach. I'd rather see a good solution. I think there will be a hard fork at some point for the order book execution, so that would be a good time to introduce a change in it.

[liondani]

I think BM should look into solutions to allow more delegates, or after every 100 blocks allow candidate delegates to produce a block in order to gather stats/prove their worth.

  for something like that!

hope it comes not to late...

[bitmeat]

happyshares, you may have good intentions, but this fails in principle.

The whole very idea that you are bribing for votes is not cool. At least that's my stance on that.

Granted by reducing my payrate to 5% it is a bit like bribing shareholders, but I'm also increasing the value for all shareholders.

I think BM should look into solutions to allow more delegates, or after every 100 blocks allow candidate delegates to produce a block in order to gather stats/prove their worth.

[liondani]

I am not terribly worried about this kind of behavior because market competition to reduce transaction fees will quickly eliminate the potential for profit sharing.

I say let them do their best, in order to get elected they need to be in the top 101 by shareholder approval and if this is what shareholders want then that is what they will get.

 

[santaclause102]

Refreshing guys. What are you afraid? Market strives for effectiveness. So HappyShares will reduce the delegate pay rate appropriately, like others do. At the end of the day delegates and voters need incentive to do what they intended to do - apart from idealistic goals. So why should one vote for delegates without  accompanying service and without added value for the community? To be only a well known forum member operating a delegate seems little benefit in the long run.

HappyShares delegates have proven reliability and > 95% uptime during the dryruns. We're crypto enthusiasts following unlike others
the BitShares idea and bytemasters first thoughts since its early days on bitcointalk. Enthusiastic with restrained public participation.
Time will tell.

We don't have any reason to assume that happyshares has bad intentions! So we should tread him friendly. The reasons not to vote for happyshare's delegates are structural and not personal.

I appreciate your participation. Have you read this https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=5868.msg78966#msg78966 ? I am sure you guys could leverage your skills and servers in another way that is actually beneficial for the whole system.

So why should one vote for delegates without  accompanying service and without added value for the community?

The thing is that you don't add value to the community but to those that voted for you.

HappyShares delegates have proven reliability and > 95% uptime during the dryruns

Why is you account new then?

[happyshares]

I am known to say what I think so:
Go fuck yourself!
Every vote cast for you is a loss for both the ideas I die for, and the one I have my whole day dedicated  fighting against!

You are welcome!
One cannot ban people taking possibilities the ecosystem offers. They will do.

[Simeon II]

I am known to say what I think so:

Go fuck yourself!


Every vote cast for you is a loss for both the ideas I die for, and the one I have my whole day dedicated  fighting against!

[happyshares]

Refreshing guys. What are you afraid? Market strives for effectiveness. So HappyShares will reduce the delegate pay rate appropriately, like others do. At the end of the day delegates and voters need incentive to do what they intended to do - apart from idealistic goals. So why should one vote for delegates without  accompanying service and without added value for the community? To be only a well known forum member operating a delegate seems little benefit in the long run.

HappyShares delegates have proven reliability and > 95% uptime during the dryruns. We're crypto enthusiasts following unlike others
the BitShares idea and bytemasters first thoughts since its early days on bitcointalk. Enthusiastic with restrained public participation.
Time will tell.

[puppies]

I am not terribly worried about this kind of behavior because market competition to reduce transaction fees will quickly eliminate the potential for profit sharing.

I say let them do their best, in order to get elected they need to be in the top 101 by shareholder approval and if this is what shareholders want then that is what they will get.

Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.

H. L. Mencken