How much is a new user worth?

[Thom]

I lot of comments here that are not thought though.

The irony is killing me 

I was thinking the exact same thing.

[Gentso1]

The strategy in general is old hat. It will mostly attract frugal people trying to penny pinch. These kind of give-aways were unique 10 years ago when PayPal did it... not so much anymore. I see this as basically airdropping BitUSD on a strategically poor demographic. There are WAY better places to seed BitUSD. Example: Airdrop BitUSD on the OpenBazaar community (after integrating BitUSD into their code). This way it'll be spent within a community that will genuinely benefit from a non-volatile crypto and it has a good potential of spreading to other markets after OB success.  We get to piggyback on OB publicity, real demand is created for BitUSD, important eyes are on OB, the PEG is enforced through increased volume, etc, etc etc. See this post.



Aaack!  My apologies.  I accidentally hit "modify" not "quote" and messed up this post. 
Context is preserved in subsequent posts.
Stan

I have to differ from you here. OB will naturally want to use bitUSD for one reason and thats profit. As soon as a mechrant or buyer gets burned by the falling price of whatever their payment option of choice is they are going to look to stability and they will have bitUSD. Nothing is worse then a merchant counting his profit only to see a market flash crash or a buyer who jumps over the hurdles of turning fiat digital only to find that his purchase is 50$ but he chose to buy (fill in btc or any alt) and whoops I only now have 48$.

I think you are 100% on point that we should be all over OB but I don't think we need to give and or really market to them because they are going to want that stability.

Actually their will be one thing we need to provide and thats depth if we can give them a bank card to go with it great but at the very least we need a 100k(higher the better) buy wall at .96 cents or higher(closer to 1:1 the better) and they will come all on their on.

I was asked a question when talking to a friend(no crypto back round) if he would use a system that gave him a bank card and some free money and he didn't care about titan,bitUSD, or any of the really cool features  all he wanted to know is

How much do I have to deposit to open the account and how much do I get?
Where is the card accepted like visa, mastercard etc?
Will it work at atm's?

I think the average consumer isn't going to care and really are going to just want to know the above. Most people just want things to work and thats it......

[Shentist]

with dilution the peg is in question!

if we could inflate what is the point to peg the USD with collateral what will maybe worthless with inflation?

it will not solve the problem.

at the moment i am a big fan to make a IPO of the firtst DAC on the BTSX exchange "marketing fund" or what you will call it.

Methodx made this proposal in introducing bitUSD to OpenBazaar. https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=9651.0

so we need only to introduce some advantages for this Marketing DAC

1. referral programm for lifetime feesharing
2. multisig
3. delegates could directly transfer some portion of the fees to a BTSX address
4. could run 1-2 delegates to get some fees
5. the short will be executed as first in the row

something like this and we could raise new money for this fund and make money with it.

[fluxer555]

I lot of comments here that are not thought though.

The irony is killing me 

[sschechter]

Folks are getting a bit short-sighted here.

The problem with diluting is that it sets precedent.

Diluting under the wise and benign rule of BM seems like a good idea because it satisfies short-term greed with no perceived downside.

Bitshares just prints some money to boost the economy.

Sound familiar?

Dilution, inflation, debasement... whatever you want to call it, the end result is always the same.

I state categorically that I3 and the Bitshares community have a moral imperative not to inflate/dilute/debase the share supply.

Doing so is akin to voting to be infected by a disease that will slowly kill BTSX.

A few will get wealthy in the short term, the masses will suffer in the long term.

We do not want to become the US Gov.

I3 has ample development funds that if spent wisely will get Bitshares to critical mass.

They need to get the client/trading platform sorted, phone apps pushed out, fiat gateways in place.

Then do a simple marketing campaign to the crypto crowd and perhaps a non-crypto-but-tech-savvy demographic (ie. Gen X/Y).

This should cause the market cap to increase substantially.

At that point, once the 'hey look at us' marketing is exhausted, they could consider using a referral system or other shenanigans to engage other demographics.

Low hanging fruit first.

 

[James212]

[\quote]
I think that a part of the problem is one that has been talked about a lot, which is that we simply do not have a clear marketing strategy and a proven team in place to execute it that gives us the warm fuzzy feeling of achievement and progress like we get when it comes to other areas like technology and economics within the Bitshares ecosystem. One that is able to harness the power and intellect of this passionate and intelligent community.

Imagine that we are 11 pages in to arguably the most important "marketing" thread in some time, and as usual it is only our work-horse heros Dan and Stan weighing in on the "executive" level. Aren't people being paid to work and think about these topics?

I believe the situation all of the sudden seems dire and drastic because we don't see incremental marketing achievements or leaders that we can point to, discuss, collaborate with and rally around. 

The good news is that we don't need a multi-million dollar solution to solve the problem..today. The idea of an affiliate program is a step in the right direction, but I can tell from the $100 proposed affiliate commission already that it is going to be abused by spammers and "affiliate marketers" and has the potential to do a lot of PR damage in the hands of the wrong people. 

The main issue I see is that earlier in this thread BM stated that the topics discussed in the this thread were independent of all other marketing efforts and the people currently working on Bitshares marketing. Please correct me if I am wrong here but that is what I understood. So, if that is correct who is in charge of arguably the most important marketing campaign to date then?

I believe it is a mistake to first try raising millions of dollars for an unproven strategy and campaign. The first and necessary step is to analyze what marketing efforts are being employed and paid for up until now and analyze them. By that I mean analyzed by a third party proven expert  so we don't get the usual responses: "He or she is great and working hard, let's support them; let's wait until there is a product; we are focused on the masses" type of commentary, which is not analysis. We need cold analysis based on traffic logs, user activity, accounting and budget review from PROVEN marketing people that are tasked with a deadline and then reporting results to the community. More importantly there needs to be the willingness from I3 to take an honest look at the budget spent thus far the real results it has achieved.

You can run an entire online and social marketing COMPANY today with the tools and resources that are present in the international market that achieves accountable results and more importantly leverages the community and network that we already have for a fraction of the cost of what is being proposed here.

   well said.   And, I two would like to see some input/results from our marketing team. 

However in my opinion this thread is mainly addressing the idea of new share issuance to finance various future projects, not just this current marketing project.    I'm convinced that if Bitshares is to become a significant enough company to compete with the world-class organizations that eventually (in short order) will be interested in this space we will need financing.  current reserves and income will probably not be enough. 

[oldman]

There are two issues at play here:

1) Should we issue more shares to fund marketing.
2) Is a $100 debit card bonus a worthwhile use of capital.

I see a lot of discussion on the merits of issuing new shares but almost nothing related to #2.

1) No; a slippery slope that historically has not ended well.

2) Premature; need to onboard existing crypto demographic first via conventional/P2P marketing.

And  to bitcoinba ^

[bitcoinba]

Folks are getting a bit short-sighted here.

The problem with diluting is that it sets precedent.

Diluting under the wise and benign rule of BM seems like a good idea because it satisfies short-term greed with no perceived downside.

Bitshares just prints some money to boost the economy.

Sound familiar?

Dilution, inflation, debasement... whatever you want to call it, the end result is always the same.

I state categorically that I3 and the Bitshares community have a moral imperative not to inflate/dilute/debase the share supply.

Doing so is akin to voting to be infected by a disease that will slowly kill BTSX.

A few will get wealthy in the short term, the masses will suffer in the long term.

We do not want to become the US Gov.

I3 has ample development funds that if spent wisely will get Bitshares to critical mass.

They need to get the client/trading platform sorted, phone apps pushed out, fiat gateways in place.

Then do a simple marketing campaign to the crypto crowd and perhaps a non-crypto-but-tech-savvy demographic (ie. Gen X/Y).

This should cause the market cap to increase substantially.

At that point, once the 'hey look at us' marketing is exhausted, they could consider using a referral system or other shenanigans to engage other demographics.

Low hanging fruit first.

+5

Well said.

I think that a part of the problem is one that has been talked about a lot, which is that we simply do not have a clear marketing strategy and a proven team in place to execute it that gives us the warm fuzzy feeling of achievement and progress like we get when it comes to other areas like technology and economics within the Bitshares ecosystem. One that is able to harness the power and intellect of this passionate and intelligent community.

Imagine that we are 11 pages in to arguably the most important "marketing" thread in some time, and as usual it is only our work-horse heros Dan and Stan weighing in on the "executive" level. Aren't people being paid to work and think about these topics?

I believe the situation all of the sudden seems dire and drastic because we don't see incremental marketing achievements or leaders that we can point to, discuss, collaborate with and rally around. 

The good news is that we don't need a multi-million dollar solution to solve the problem..today. The idea of an affiliate program is a step in the right direction, but I can tell from the $100 proposed affiliate commission already that it is going to be abused by spammers and "affiliate marketers" and has the potential to do a lot of PR damage in the hands of the wrong people. 

The main issue I see is that earlier in this thread BM stated that the topics discussed in the this thread were independent of all other marketing efforts and the people currently working on Bitshares marketing. Please correct me if I am wrong here but that is what I understood. So, if that is correct who is in charge of arguably the most important marketing campaign to date then?

I believe it is a mistake to first try raising millions of dollars for an unproven strategy and campaign. The first and necessary step is to analyze what marketing efforts are being employed and paid for up until now and analyze them. By that I mean analyzed by a third party proven expert  so we don't get the usual responses: "He or she is great and working hard, let's support them; let's wait until there is a product; we are focused on the masses" type of commentary, which is not analysis. We need cold analysis based on traffic logs, user activity, accounting and budget review from PROVEN marketing people that are tasked with a deadline and then reporting results to the community. More importantly there needs to be the willingness from I3 to take an honest look at the budget spent thus far the real results it has achieved.

You can run an entire online and social marketing COMPANY today with the tools and resources that are present in the international market that achieves accountable results and more importantly leverages the community and network that we already have for a fraction of the cost of what is being proposed here.

[James212]

Folks are getting a bit short-sighted here.

The problem with diluting is that it sets precedent.

Diluting under the wise and benign rule of BM seems like a good idea because it satisfies short-term greed with no perceived downside.

Bitshares just prints some money to boost the economy.

Sound familiar?

Dilution, inflation, debasement... whatever you want to call it, the end result is always the same.

I state categorically that I3 and the Bitshares community have a moral imperative not to inflate/dilute/debase the share supply.

Doing so is akin to voting to be infected by a disease that will slowly kill BTSX.

A few will get wealthy in the short term, the masses will suffer in the long term.

We do not want to become the US Gov.

I3 has ample development funds that if spent wisely will get Bitshares to critical mass.

They need to get the client/trading platform sorted, phone apps pushed out, fiat gateways in place.

Then do a simple marketing campaign to the crypto crowd and perhaps a non-crypto-but-tech-savvy demographic (ie. Gen X/Y).

This should cause the market cap to increase substantially.

At that point, once the 'hey look at us' marketing is exhausted, they could consider using a referral system or other shenanigans to engage other demographics.

Low hanging fruit first.

Thank you OldMan! An insightful voice of clarity and reason!

I totally disagree. I lot of comments here that are not thought though. 

[Empirical1.1]

...
a) We need to go hard or go home, or someone else will come and blow our space up.  We don't want to be 2nd best in the space that we (I use that term generously... more like you) invented. ...

 

What I will say is that there are actual, real marketing opportunities. For example BitCoin is 7% down today, LTC just follows. Imagine the marketing opportunity for a switchover if Bitcoin had a 10% down day?

We're really next in line & this would be a great day for a zero dilution, profitable BTSX DAC to shine as well as an even better, fantastic day to promote BitAssets.

Imagine BitGold and BitUSD on the main CMC page today, seeded with CAP's of more than $1 million while BitCoin tanked 10%? (I can tell you it's probably a great volume day for ponzi NuBits)

Imagine an advert today scrolling down across the top of CMC or Coindesk "Bitcoin down today? Try BitGold or BitUSD, completely decentralised, secure and fully backed on BTSX'

Obviously there's a big world out there & some of the things mentioned here excl. dilution sound fantastic but there are still good marketing strategies that don't involve BitDrops etc. that can get us first to no.2 and then beyond especially if we make ourselves ready to capitalise on Bitcoin weakness.

[James212]

There are two issues at play here:

1) Should we issue more shares to fund marketing.
2) Is a $100 debit card bonus a worthwhile use of capital.

I see a lot of discussion on the merits of issuing new shares but almost nothing related to #2.

I think we need another thread to discuss the full detail plan, the controls, expectations, benchmarks, and costs and contengiencies.  If the plan is then resolved to the affirmative, the issue of how to finance it comes to the fore. 

[blahblah7up]

Folks are getting a bit short-sighted here.

The problem with diluting is that it sets precedent.

Diluting under the wise and benign rule of BM seems like a good idea because it satisfies short-term greed with no perceived downside.

Bitshares just prints some money to boost the economy.

Sound familiar?

Dilution, inflation, debasement... whatever you want to call it, the end result is always the same.

I state categorically that I3 and the Bitshares community have a moral imperative not to inflate/dilute/debase the share supply.

Doing so is akin to voting to be infected by a disease that will slowly kill BTSX.

A few will get wealthy in the short term, the masses will suffer in the long term.

We do not want to become the US Gov.

I3 has ample development funds that if spent wisely will get Bitshares to critical mass.

They need to get the client/trading platform sorted, phone apps pushed out, fiat gateways in place.

Then do a simple marketing campaign to the crypto crowd and perhaps a non-crypto-but-tech-savvy demographic (ie. Gen X/Y).

This should cause the market cap to increase substantially.

At that point, once the 'hey look at us' marketing is exhausted, they could consider using a referral system or other shenanigans to engage other demographics.

Low hanging fruit first.

Thank you OldMan! An insightful voice of clarity and reason!

[feedthemcake]

There are two issues at play here:

1) Should we issue more shares to fund marketing.
2) Is a $100 debit card bonus a worthwhile use of capital.

I see a lot of discussion on the merits of issuing new shares but almost nothing related to #2.

In my opinion, for 100.00 free dollars, the need to put in 1000.00 is just barely worth it for something new and unheard of and I'm not even positive as I am biased in that I am a bitshares fanboy.
If it were 10 free dollars for 100.00, I don't think it has my attention.

[Method-X]

There are two issues at play here:

1) Should we issue more shares to fund marketing.
2) Is a $100 debit card bonus a worthwhile use of capital.

I see a lot of discussion on the merits of issuing new shares but almost nothing related to #2.

[CLains]

Bitshares just prints some money to boost the economy.

Sound familiar?

Your rhetorical gift might land you in self-deception. Be careful and think, what purpose does inflation serve? It serves precisely to force all of us to donate an equal amount to some specific cause. It is not some abstract thing, it is you and me, not being able to trust that the other donates, decide that the medium we exist in will make us all donate equally.

Inflation is a tool that solves one problem (tragedy of the commons) and introduces another problem (spending by unitary "consensus"). There are so many possibilities in this space that to see either problem as fixed or god given is to lose sight of all the things we can do now.