How much is a new user worth?

[Shentist]

guys i think i had a brilliant moment to solve the funding problem, but maybe i am just stupid 

suppose we have a friend like bytemaster discribed.
suppose we can fund this marketing stunt and everyone has a chance to profit from it.

suppose our friend will make this kind of card available and he gets people interested to buy 1.000 bitUSD for 1.000 USD and with his promise to pay them for using the card 100 bitUSD

his customer will transfer 1.000 USD and he needs to buy 1.000 bitUSD to load the card up.
- he needs a way to change his fiat Dollar in bitUSD, so this is a job maybe Invictus needs to handle
- the friend will send the USD to Invictus and Invictus will load the just opend customer card with 1.000 bitUSD

so far nothing special

but how will Invictus fund the whole operation?

- so Invictus needs 1.000 bitUSD but if they use 1.000 bitUSD of their own funds they will loose a lot of money, because they wanted to hold BTSX for the expected rise

but we have a source of untouched bitUSD - so overhang on SHORTS

at the moment a short can only be done at the feed price. for the marketing stunt we need an option to make it 20% above the feed price.

lets make an example

- Invictus needs for the deal 1.200 bitUSD for the created possible liabilities
- at they moment they could just buy 1.200 bit USD (suppose for 31,5 BTSX ) 37.800 BTSX at the open market
- but Invictus got only 31.500 BTSX worth from the friend
- so now we need a "marketing" SHORT (i suggest as long as the deal works only marketing shorts are accepted) to buy 1.200 bit USD for 31.500 BTSX while the real price is 37.800 BTSX
- the SHORT position will be greated with a "marketing price" of 26.5 BTSX and not on the feedprice of 31.5

- Invictus holds now 1.200 bitUSD and can easily fund the liabilities without risk
- done

Assumptions

- Invictus finds a solution for the fake user problem (maybe it is possible to create a new kind of account. If Invictus pays 1.000 bitUSD on this account, the account will be granted 100 bitUSD via spending. Like yield?)
- same problem is with our "friend" it needs to be a reliable source, because we could easily fund with this way his entry into BTSX and not the entry of many.
- SHORTS are willing to create with this discount, and in the beginning we had this problem, because anyone was really bullish, now with this bullish mind set you can support BTSX with only loosing 5 BTSX each created bitUSD. Would a SHORTER be willing to do it? I think yes, because from the created buying pressure BTSX will rise in value and the short will easily cover his position with a profit.
- for this kind of short no time restrictions wanted

I think this could be a solution for the egg and the hen problem and it is a really win- win situation.

At the moment we have only the problem that we have not many who are willing to buying bitUSD from the creators the shorts. Now we match them and the SHORT creators are willing to go into risk, but say will profit from the rise of BTSX big time.

what do you think?

wow - got total ignored. so this idea is bad? no, comments? and i thought i found the holy grail

[vegolino]

I think if we are going to appeal to a wider audience than crypto community, we don't even need to mention BTSX at all, what needs to be communicated to a regular user is this - you can transact in BitUSD and don't worry about conversion rates, get rebates for the purchases and if you store BitUSD long term you can get much higher yield than your bank can give you on your savings account.
As far as market peg holds and BitAsset yields are higher than inflation, there would be no questions about network's ability to store value.
« Last Edit: Today at 03:26:24 PM by valzav »

BTSX Bank of the Future

[Method-X]

Marketing BitUSD is all about finding a catalyst and then sitting back and watching the dominoes fall.

[Mysto]

BitShares has been historically weak on marketing imo and I think we're even moving into the more harm than good stage here. Our best play may be to get a stable, decentralised client and a good interest system going and let it sell itself.

I think their first priority is making it stable and decentralized then they will start this marketing...

Looks Good!
However I think the user experience should be improved before presenting BitsharesX in such way.
Client should be polished and market rules finalized (at least temporarily) and clearly explained.

Clearly!

I disagree that even something this big could "sell itself". There must be some form of marketing involved otherwise I don't see it taking off.

[Method-X]

Everybody who expresses an interest in the bitcoin search category would get the pitch that this is the best way to get involved in the Honest Robots Global Financial System (or whatever).

This is easier said than done. I've been involved in SEO since the days of keyword stuffing and lived through penguin/panda... Co-opting the "Bitcoin" term on Google will be extremely difficult.

To me, use as a currency is icing on the cake.  I think point of sale habits will come after there is a large group of people using the system for savings and investment.  Trying to be a currency before there is a large base of holders puts the cart before the horse.  Get big as a savings account, then add checking.

  Agree. Merchants will inevitably want to tap into that buying power.

[GaltReport]

I would sign-up for  card that let me load it with BitUSD and spend it like dollars. 

[Empirical1.1]

Ok so back on topic.

• What sort of demographic would this attract?
• How "sticky" would said demographic be?
• What unique things could this demographic buy with BitUSD that they otherwise couldn't buy with FiatUSD?

I don't think this is the best use of opportunity cost, especially considering the precedent it will set. I think in terms of marketing, we should be thinking more along the lines of strategic seeding. Fortunately for us we've already got a great model to imitate: Bitcoin.

So, my question for the community is: what were the tipping points of early Bitcoin adoption?

1. Cyprus - The general public are Incredibly sceptical of digital currencies/companies but Cyprus exposed the risk posed by centralised institutions and tipped the short term risk scales in Bitcoin's favour. (Mainly still for young reasonably tech savvy males - 95%+ males, 37% libertarian/anarchco capitalist, avg. age 33 -  http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-03-10/demographics-bitcoin  )

I would even say the risk posed of currencies hyper-inflating in the case of another bailout made a decentralised  currency with a set in stone inflation model appealing too. 'There will only be 21 million Bitcoin's'


2. China was a big catalyst  - I don't have a good confident analysis for what drove China's demand. Maybe Chinese community can say.


The same demographics though are in play today of people that would currently use something linked to a decentralised company/currency. http://moneymorning.com/2014/01/13/uses-bitcoin-suddenly-big-deal-businesses/

The proposal suggested here is directed at spenders not savers and not in anway the demographic that has shown an appetite for using crypto based offerings at this stage. (In fact it's more likely that target market will run a mile if inflation systems aren't set in stone.)

Even with KYC pre-paid cards with such generous returns, it will be heavily gamed imo.

BitShares has been historically weak on marketing imo and I think we're even moving into the more harm than good stage here. Our best play may be to get a stable, decentralised client and a good interest system going and let it sell itself.

 

[bytemaster]

OK two questions......

"Net result:  users buy $1,000 worth of BitUSD and spends it via the pre-paid card earns $100...assuming a referral they buy $1000 worth of BitUSD and cost $200 worth of USD... "
1. These pre-paid cards, are they bitUSD or USD? If its bitUSD where can they spend it?

"Users who recommend 10 people who and buy and spend $1000 worth of BitUSD will earn $1100..."
2.Whats the point of giving bitUSD away in any amount when it can not be traded directly for fiat and no merchants accept it. Yes I know you can use it to buy btsx which has value(the platform), but isn't the goal to give the assets themselves value?

I am very very leery of adjusting the supply of btsx because as other users mentioned it sets a dangerous precedent.

The cards are funded with BitUSD but spend just like any USD converted at 1:1 no spread.  The card service provider would either hold the BitUSD or sell it on the market to get real USD.  As the card service provider is earning a fee from merchants they can handle the spread  (and/or make the BitUSD market).  It would be on the card provider to liquidate the BitUSD and not on the user.

[Method-X]

Ok so back on topic.

• What sort of demographic would this attract?
• How "sticky" would said demographic be?
• What unique things could this demographic buy with BitUSD that they otherwise couldn't buy with FiatUSD?

I don't think this is the best use of opportunity cost, especially considering the precedent it will set. I think in terms of marketing, we should be thinking more along the lines of strategic seeding. Fortunately for us we've already got a great model to imitate: Bitcoin.

So, my question for the community is: what were the tipping points of early Bitcoin adoption?

In my opinion it isn't that they can buy different things with BitUSD, it is that they can use BTSX *like a bank* and all banks have checking accounts and savings account.  Almost all checking accounts have a "check card".   

Then our target market will be merchants... convince them to take BitUSD directly rather than pay 3%... merchants can then share the savings with customers.

I think bonuses like this should be implemented by 3rd parties. i.e. Circle and Coinbase offered $10 in BTC to attract users; the financial risk was taken on by a centralized business, not Bitcoin at the protocol level / dev team.

You mentioned previously that you were planning to focus on strategic partnerships and on-ramps... I think that's the very best Invictus as a company can do. If BitUSD truly has a value proposition, other businesses should be able to see that and they will be the ones to market/entice users with bonuses such as the one you're proposing.

One of the things I'm most excited about is the fact that BitUSD opens up all the use cases Bitcoin was supposed to be good at but wasn't (because volatility). So forging partnerships in those areas may prove to be the most productive use of your resources and intellectual energy.

[Gentso1]

OK two questions......

"Net result:  users buy $1,000 worth of BitUSD and spends it via the pre-paid card earns $100...assuming a referral they buy $1000 worth of BitUSD and cost $200 worth of USD... "
1. These pre-paid cards, are they bitUSD or USD? If its bitUSD where can they spend it?

"Users who recommend 10 people who and buy and spend $1000 worth of BitUSD will earn $1100..."
2.Whats the point of giving bitUSD away in any amount when it can not be traded directly for fiat and no merchants accept it. Yes I know you can use it to buy btsx which has value(the platform), but isn't the goal to give the assets themselves value?

I am very very leery of adjusting the supply of btsx because as other users mentioned it sets a dangerous precedent.

   

[Stan]

Ok so back on topic.

• What sort of demographic would this attract?
• How "sticky" would said demographic be?
• What unique things could this demographic buy with BitUSD that they otherwise couldn't buy with FiatUSD?

I don't think this is the best use of opportunity cost, especially considering the precedent it will set. I think in terms of marketing, we should be thinking more along the lines of strategic seeding. Fortunately for us we've already got a great model to imitate: Bitcoin.

So, my question for the community is: what were the tipping points of early Bitcoin adoption?

Demographics:

• Everybody who expresses an interest in the bitcoin search category would get the pitch that this is the best way to get involved in the Honest Robots Global Financial System (or whatever).
• Everybody who has a friend who liked the above experience.

Stickiness:

• Those who are looking for a place to keep savings and earn a safe yield.
• Those who are galled by the current passbook savings rate.
• Those who have savvy grandchildren who are looking to help them earn a safe yield.

Once you have overcome the inertia of getting a yield-bearing savings account, you keep a little in there to test and gradually move into it as you gain confidence.

Unique Things:

To me, use as a currency is icing on the cake.  I think point of sale habits will come after there is a large group of people using the system for savings and investment.  Trying to be a currency before there is a large base of holders puts the cart before the horse.  Get big as a savings account, then add checking.

[GaltReport]

Ok so back on topic.

• What sort of demographic would this attract?
• How "sticky" would said demographic be?
• What unique things could this demographic buy with BitUSD that they otherwise couldn't buy with FiatUSD?

I don't think this is the best use of opportunity cost, especially considering the precedent it will set. I think in terms of marketing, we should be thinking more along the lines of strategic seeding. Fortunately for us we've already got a great model to imitate: Bitcoin.

So, my question for the community is: what were the tipping points of early Bitcoin adoption?

In my opinion it isn't that they can buy different things with BitUSD, it is that they can use BTSX *like a bank* and all banks have checking accounts and savings account.  Almost all checking accounts have a "check card".   

Then our target market will be merchants... convince them to take BitUSD directly rather than pay 3%... merchants can then share the savings with customers.

That would be a great achievement.

[bytemaster]

Ok so back on topic.

• What sort of demographic would this attract?
• How "sticky" would said demographic be?
• What unique things could this demographic buy with BitUSD that they otherwise couldn't buy with FiatUSD?

I don't think this is the best use of opportunity cost, especially considering the precedent it will set. I think in terms of marketing, we should be thinking more along the lines of strategic seeding. Fortunately for us we've already got a great model to imitate: Bitcoin.

So, my question for the community is: what were the tipping points of early Bitcoin adoption?

In my opinion it isn't that they can buy different things with BitUSD, it is that they can use BTSX *like a bank* and all banks have checking accounts and savings account.  Almost all checking accounts have a "check card".   

Then our target market will be merchants... convince them to take BitUSD directly rather than pay 3%... merchants can then share the savings with customers.

[Method-X]

Ok so back on topic.

• What sort of demographic would this attract?
• How "sticky" would said demographic be?
• What unique things could this demographic buy with BitUSD that they otherwise couldn't buy with FiatUSD?

I don't think this is the best use of opportunity cost, especially considering the precedent it will set. I think in terms of marketing, we should be thinking more along the lines of strategic seeding. Fortunately for us we've already got a great model to imitate: Bitcoin.

So, my question for the community is: what were the tipping points of early Bitcoin adoption?

[Stan]

It's true that in the early stages of bitcoin there was a benefit of POW which is initial coin/software distribution to create a group of early adopters.  After 5 years the bitcoin mining no longer helps bring in new users due to the ASIC cost.  But we don't have that early benefit which bitcoin did, of creating thousands of early users via mining, so we do need something to compensate for that.

I was staunchly against inflation to pay for extra marketing at first, but byemaster makes a good point about it being analogous to share dilution/capital infusion.  However, with pre-IPO share dilution (as far as I know) there is an investor(s) ready to buy a percentage of the company, so that capital infusion is guaranteed.  BTSX is already "ipo'd" so any investors wanting to invest can buy in already.  There's no capital infusion with inflation, but rather a capital movement from stakeholders to the marketing team (or wherever the newly created BTSX were allocated, how is that decided btw?).

I can't really know whether to be pro-inflation or not without knowing what the current size of the marketing budget is and what the plans are.

Expand your definition of "capital infusion".  It's not always cash. 
Many times startups buy labor hours with stock.   
That's an equivalent infusion of value. 
Many times a whole subsidiary is purchased with stock to get at key technologies or customers. 
That's an equivalent infusion of value.

As long as the infusion exceeds the dilution, its a net gain in value per share.