The more i think about this and see responses, i the more i'm weighing towards not supporting this proposal. i see merit in the idea, and would have likely supported something like this as a single market roll out for Bitshares in the beginning, but at this point i think our community has suffered from too many pivots; i also love our trading system and enjoy having a variety of markets to trade. it doesn't sit well with me trying to force volume from smartcoins people are voicing their preferences to trade (by actually trading them). it's possible some, or more, of that volume will simply disappear with discontent and more uncertainty from a major pivot.

there are always multiple solutions to the same problem, and in this context we have several other proposals to boost liquidity. One involves a complicated subsidization scheme, which is also a reasonable idea, but i prefer simply providing discounts for trading frequency.

we already have a great system, i think we're lacking on getting the word out to candidate traders. a persistent marketing campaign to retail and crypto traders is where i think we'd get the biggest bang for the effort.

I think we all agree that liquidity is the problem.
The elephant in the room for me is I can't buy $1000 of bitusd at anywhere near the peg.
Bitusd is only created when it is borrowed in existence. These creators of bitusd are rightly afraid that they will not be able to buy back to cover their debts.
Getting the word out or more marketing will not fix this issue.

People seem to be trying to fix the symptoms of poor liquidity rather than the underlying cause.

I love bitshares and if we can come up with a suitable system for liquidity then I think bitshares will sell itself.

 

 

Quote from: JonnyBitcoin on February 23, 2016, 05:35:35 am

Quote from: Empirical1.2 on February 23, 2016, 02:15:43 am

Quote from: JonnyBitcoin on February 23, 2016, 01:18:09 am

Keep all UIAs.
What I'm saying is we need a master USD smartcoin for fiat.
Use the master as a base smartcoin to create all other fiat smartcoins from.

These other sub smartcoins would hold value in euros or yen etc but couldn't be traded only used to hold value.
They would need to be turned back to BitUSD if you want to do trading.

these sub smartcoins would work by transfering bitusd in to a special EUR wallet which uses a CFD behind the scenes to keep the the value correct by either adding or subtracting Bitusd.

I'm a bit slow with these things.

Lets say I have 1215 BitUSD & I put it into a special Gold wallet because I want to be long 1 ounce of Gold.

Gold then increases by 300% vs. USD.

Where does the additional $2400 come from to pay me my gains. Who loses on that trade?

The blockchain/reserve pool would have to cover these costs. 
But lets get some perspective. For every winning trade there will be a similar number of losing trades which would offset losses and may even make profit.
I think should only be for fiat currencies.
Another way of offsetting any losses would be to charge a 1% fee when users choose to lock their Bitusd to another fiat currency.
Another way to offset this proposed systems excessive long USD position might with prediction markets.

Why do no real world companies offer this exact service unless their exposure is hedged?...

Imo the closest we can come to offering this service is something like my 'Simple Smartcoin Account' approach.. https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,21507.0.html

The real world example that does exactly this would be IG index (the worlds largest spreadbetting company )

Andrew Bole, Risk director at IG index

As counterparty to thousands of spread trades every day, from small punts to large trading positions, IG Index has to manage a significant amount of market risk. But hedging every spread trade as it is placed is not practical.

There are two ways around this problem. First, in highly active markets, many of the spread bets cancel each other out. "If it's a very busy market, you will have a lot of two-way business, which is ideal. We are just acting as another market-maker," says Bole.

However, in less liquid markets, such as spread bets on single stocks, IG Index cannot rely on investors taking both sides of the market. Instead, it hedges its exposure using futures on the underlying stock.

Keep all UIAs.
What I'm saying is we need a master USD smartcoin for fiat.
Use the master as a base smartcoin to create all other fiat smartcoins from.

These other sub smartcoins would hold value in euros or yen etc but couldn't be traded only used to hold value.
They would need to be turned back to BitUSD if you want to do trading.

these sub smartcoins would work by transfering bitusd in to a special EUR wallet which uses a CFD behind the scenes to keep the the value correct by either adding or subtracting Bitusd.

Even the biggest markets and exchanges limit their market pairs, it makes for deeper liquid markets.

Gold traders in the UK and around the world trade GOLD:USD not GBP:USD same goes for the oil.

in the UK we think and quote barrels of oil  in USD and so does the rest of the world. There's not really a wholesale electronic marketplace for OIL:GBP

If the biggest markets in the world with huge volumes and 1000s of professional traders limit their trade pairs to just 1 then we certainly need to with our pathetic volumes we have at the moment.

bitstamp limits their trade pairs to just one BTC:USD and they are doing fine.

Too much Ronny.

Just do one thing and do it well.   That should be openledger.

Are you gonnado a new post in the main bit of the forum with that poster?

Graphene is the toolkit behind bitshares... Graphene != bitshares.

Other chains use the Graphene toolkit like identabit and muse.

Alternatively we could say identabit and muse use a fork of the bitshares 2.

Quote from: cass on February 16, 2016, 10:50:48 pm

Quote from: valzav on February 16, 2016, 02:39:12 pm

Quote from: bytemaster on February 16, 2016, 02:25:28 pm

which UI is the best?

I like this UI http://flarum.org/

 

Agreed looks nice.

flarum looks good