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Messages - clayop

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121
General Discussion / Market making bot "Kkachi" is on testing in the DEX (OPENBTC-BTS)
« on: January 28, 2016, 11:09:20 pm »

Do you want to buy or sell your BTS in Poloniex? You can use Kkachi!
With very small spread it can provide you with the best price in the DEX.

You must know that this is alpha version. I am a noob in programming and this my first product. So it maybe not stable but it doesn't mean it will rob your money (actually you can take my money when Kkachi is knocked out). But any tests are more than welcome.

Enjoy!

122
Stakeholder Proposals / Re: Proxy: fav - Journal
« on: January 28, 2016, 08:16:08 pm »
Quote from: xeroc on January 28, 2016, 08:14:30 pm
Quote from: Bhuz on January 28, 2016, 04:22:58 pm
Quote from: fav on January 28, 2016, 03:47:27 pm
Since committee member bitcube is actively trying to kill bitshares, I will remove any other committee member who's voting for him.

Removed:
bitcrab
bhuz

Is there any proposal voting going on?

Answer: NO

There is NO proposal going on.
There is only some free discussion on the forum.

So you basically are voting "pro" and "against" some committee even before a proposal started and those committee could express their vote? .... Nice!


Oh, and if you unvote me because I am currently supporting bitcrab with my so little stake, you should know that I am really supporting ALL the current committee members (you know, we are the only ppl that step up to do something really, and I believe in cooperation, and team work).

So at the end of the day, you should unvote me once, and upvote me 9 times!
I agree with this ..
committee members should be allowed to discuss and find solutions ..
proposing changes is helpful to identify what issues people might face with it if they were executed
I agree too.

123
General Discussion / Re: poll for the "1 BTS for transfer" proposal
« on: January 28, 2016, 10:01:59 am »
Quote from: jakub on January 28, 2016, 09:59:05 am
@bitcrab
Your idea is destructive.

This is what we know for sure that will happen if we go through with your concept:
- it will be the end of the referral program (including the concept of LTM) and all businesses that have based their business plans on this program will be screwed
- it will be the end of OpenLeger and its fiat gateway
- it will be the end of our percentage-based fee initiative
And once again BitShares will confirm its lack of respect for stable rules.

You offer no argument whatsoever why lowering the transfer fee to 1 BTS will help anything.
Your only argument is your belief. So you want to sacrifice all the above just because you believe it will help.

Your "reasoning" is based on this unproved hypothesis:
There are potential users who would like to transfer amounts above the equivalent of $5 but are not doing so because "the fees are too high".

I think this hypothesis of yours is worth exactly this: 1 BTS.
If referrers show us their great performance s for last four months, this debate will be resolved more easily.

124
Technical Support / Cannot cancel the order in CLI after cancellation fee is charged
« on: January 28, 2016, 09:27:19 am »
grapheneapi.RPCError: 0 exception: unspecified
3030007 insufficient_fee: insufficient fee
Insufficient Fee Paid
    {"core_fee_paid":0,"required":10000}
    th_a  evaluator.hpp:230 evaluate

It seems CLI wallet does not have cancellation fee pay feature. How can I do cancellation using rpc call?

125
General Discussion / Re: poll for the "1 BTS for transfer" proposal
« on: January 28, 2016, 09:08:02 am »
Quote from: fav on January 28, 2016, 07:40:37 am
Quote from: deer on January 28, 2016, 07:37:56 am
The referral should base on mature application、user numbers、outside funding
We got none of this now，

what do you base your opinion on? do you even know how many users register through the referral program (hint: A LOT)
But I found many of them rarely use BTS system. We need more detailed data.

126
General Discussion / Re: Exploiting fee pool of prediction market
« on: January 24, 2016, 09:21:32 pm »
Quote from: xeroc on January 24, 2016, 09:04:05 pm
Afaik the cer could br set to anything. ... just not the maintenance collateral ratio
Seems to be a solution

127
General Discussion / Exploiting fee pool of prediction market
« on: January 24, 2016, 08:45:19 pm »
asshole1 is exploiting prediction market's fee pool. Can the CER of prediction market changed to under 1? Or we need another solution to prevent it.

128
Muse/SoundDAC / Re: Why is that hard to import BTS keys in MUSE wallet?
« on: January 24, 2016, 02:48:00 am »
Quote from: bitcoin777 on January 24, 2016, 01:53:49 am
Still cannot import BTS key into MUSE wallet. The key import tool button does NOTHING. Please help
Did you go to lookup balance?

129
Stakeholder Proposals / Re: Please vote for xn-delegate
« on: January 24, 2016, 02:47:31 am »
Dual core vps is recommended afaik.

130
General Discussion / Re: poll for the percent based transfer fee
« on: January 23, 2016, 03:48:25 am »
Quote from: bitcrab on January 23, 2016, 02:58:54 am
Quote from: clayop on January 22, 2016, 11:01:28 pm
We first have to define the range of micro-transaction IMO.

Under $15? $6? $3?
Depending on the numbers, we can set the percentage. I personally like $15 which in turn has percentage fee of 0.02% (1/5000).
Given 0.02%, we can take max 300 BTS that gives equal fee amount to 0.2%/1/50 (but maximum 30 always gives less).

So I would suggest three options that generate about 300k BTS fee (the original value is about 480k)

1. 0.02% / min. 1 BTS / max. 300 BTS
2. 0.1% / min. 1 BTS / max. 60 BTS
3. 0.2% / min. 1 BTS / max. 50 BTS

If we can sacrifice about more fees, we can choose among

1. 0.01% / 1 / 300
2. 0.02% / 1/ 100
3. 0.2% / 1 / 30

These options generate about 200k BTS fee.

my suggestion: 0.2%/1/20
high friction hurt economy, now it's not time to try to make higher profit, it's time to make higher attraction!

I think 0.2% is too high for micro-transactions. 0.05% would be better IMO (because given 0.05%, under $6 will be considered as "micro"transaction).
Regarding maximum, it can be debatable. I honestly agree with both sides, and am doubtful to both sides as well. Sometimes people pay relatively high fees in transferring BTC as well. For instance, Yunbi charges 0.001 BTC ($0.4 or 130 BTS) but people seem not care. How much people are willing to pay given 0.05% fee? That's beyond my capacity.

131
General Discussion / Re: poll for the percent based transfer fee
« on: January 23, 2016, 03:32:38 am »
Quote from: bitcrab on January 23, 2016, 03:05:52 am
Quote from: jakub on January 22, 2016, 10:27:07 am
Quote from: bitcrab on January 21, 2016, 12:02:01 pm
Do you think referral program really work?

@bitcrab , recently I've been wondering about this:
You have always been very skeptical about the usefulness of the referral program but at the same time you run a significant gateway business for CNY.

What is your business model if you don't intend to rely on the referral income?
Where does your revenue come from?

 referral program haven't proved it works here.

gateway have several ways to make profit -  to charge for deposit/withdraw, to cooperate with merchant, to issue privatized smartcoin/UIA and charge market fee. I feel each one is better than referral program.

We can analyze how much profits are generated from referrers' customers.

132
General Discussion / Re: poll for the percent based transfer fee
« on: January 23, 2016, 03:22:35 am »
Quote from: jakub on January 23, 2016, 01:15:25 am
Quote from: clayop on January 23, 2016, 12:09:58 am
Statistics says there no big income difference between 1 and 3. One-cent scheme is only for westerners, which is not valid in less affluent areas.

Currently there is no difference between 1 and 3 BTS because nobody is doing such small transfers while the transfer fee is at 30 BTS.
This will change as micro-transactions kick in and it can have a significant impact on our revenue.
It's really good that you've done this analysis but we must not rely on it blindly because this data describes the current state, not the future state when we have the percentage-based fees in place and users change their behavior accordingly.

Better to start a bit high (and possibly lower the fees in the future) than start low and upset people with a fee rise.

Micro-transactions include almost 0 value transactions not for money transfer purpose but for information transfer purpose, such as messaging. Most of them may send 0.0001 BTS with the minimum fee. In terms of this, 1 vs 3 BTS makes very big difference to their costs; 300% increase. Can you imagine how many demands will decrease due to the 300% more cost? The minimum fee is not a source of income but a tool for preventing spam. Currently, the smallest fee is 1 BTS (for account update and call order update, excepting publish feed), and it seems to work in terms of spam prevention.

133
General Discussion / Re: poll for the percent based transfer fee
« on: January 23, 2016, 12:09:58 am »
Quote from: jakub on January 22, 2016, 11:41:32 pm
Quote from: clayop on January 22, 2016, 11:01:28 pm
We first have to define the range of micro-transaction IMO.

Under $15? $6? $3?
Depending on the numbers, we can set the percentage. I personally like $15 which in turn has percentage fee of 0.02% (1/5000).
I think $15 is too much to treat it as a "micro-transaction". This way 90% of my daily expenses would be classified as micro-transactions.
I think the threshold for our definition should be around $5, i.e. anything below $5 should be considered "micro-transaction".

Quote
So I would suggest three options that generate about 300k BTS fee (the original value is about 480k)

1. 0.02% / min. 1 BTS / max. 300 BTS
2. 0.1% / min. 1 BTS / max. 60 BTS
3. 0.2% / min. 1 BTS / max. 50 BTS

If we can sacrifice about more fees, we can choose among

1. 0.01% / 1 / 300
2. 0.02% / 1/ 100
3. 0.2% / 1 / 30

These options generate about 200k BTS fee.

As for the minimum amount I think 1 BTS is too low. 
I would think that $0.05 is the lowest payment that still makes sense for most people and paying $0.01 (i.e. 20%) for sending $0.05 is still acceptable.
So for me 3 BTS (~$0.01) is the minimum transfer fee we should charge.
Statistics says there no big income difference between 1 and 3. One-cent scheme is only for westerners, which is not valid in less affluent areas.

134
General Discussion / Re: poll for the percent based transfer fee
« on: January 22, 2016, 11:24:34 pm »
Quote from: jakub on January 22, 2016, 11:19:25 pm
Quote from: jakub on January 21, 2016, 07:24:35 pm
Quote from: clayop on January 21, 2016, 04:51:45 pm
Quick report:

New analysis confirms me minimum fee does not change a lot, consisting with previous conclusion. So 1 BTS makes sense.
And I found 0.2% is an efficient fee level.

To reach the same level of the actually collected fee, we can choose 100 BTS maximum.
50 BTS maximum generates about 60%, and 20 BTS maximum 30%.

Based on this, I could choose 0.2%/1/50, much closer to bitcrab's suggestion.

I don't' understand why you say these new results "do not change a lot".

Previously you said that "my" settings (i.e. 1%/6/300) produced barely 14% of the current income.
Now you say that [0.2%/1/50] gives 60% of the current income.

That's a huge difference.

PS. I'm very glad you've done this analysis. Thanks for that.

@clayop , what about this ^ ?
Oh forget about it. The data used here is not cleaned, so there are huge errors.

135
General Discussion / Re: poll for the percent based transfer fee
« on: January 22, 2016, 11:01:28 pm »
We first have to define the range of micro-transaction IMO.

Under $15? $6? $3?
Depending on the numbers, we can set the percentage. I personally like $15 which in turn has percentage fee of 0.02% (1/5000).
Given 0.02%, we can take max 300 BTS that gives equal fee amount to 0.2%/1/50 (but maximum 30 always gives less).

So I would suggest three options that generate about 300k BTS fee (the original value is about 480k)

1. 0.02% / min. 1 BTS / max. 300 BTS
2. 0.1% / min. 1 BTS / max. 60 BTS
3. 0.2% / min. 1 BTS / max. 50 BTS

If we can sacrifice about more fees, we can choose among

1. 0.01% / 1 / 300
2. 0.02% / 1/ 100
3. 0.2% / 1 / 30

These options generate about 200k BTS fee.

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