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Messages - Permie

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556
I'm just reading through the newly released May edition Nullstreet Journal and @CryptoPrometheus and @DataSecurityNode have written an update about DPOS Hub, which I had forgotten about.

https://bitshares.org/newsletter/2015/nullstreet/the_nullstreet_journal_0-4.pdf

It seems to go a long way to solving some of the accountability issues.

Quote
DPOShub - Update and Progress Report
Delegate:
delegate.dposhub-org
By: Michael Paul Maloney (@CryptoPrometheus)
and Jonathan Baha’i (@DataSecurityNode)
Since last month, Jonathan and I have been working to build a simple, solid, functional and
reliable platform for BitShares delegates (which now includes witnesses and workers) to
organize, publish, and syndicate their shareholder updates and proposals and thus create a
more efficient delivery system for vital shareholder (voter) information. We are also implementing a real time communications network similar to Slack for all account holders
(both delegate and non-delegate), and a message board which will enable users to post
classified listings of Meetups, Jobs/Help Wanted, Professional Services, Resumes and ore.
In essence, the first iteration of DPOShub.org will be a multi-facited web-based application
which will include all of the functionality outlined in Phase 1 of the delegate proposal section of our whitepaper ( http://www.dposhub.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/dposhubdelegateproposal.pdf )
, along with several bonus features that I’ve been told I am not allowed to
speak about yet :).


The DPOS Hub whitepaper discusses how a social media type site for Delegates and Shareholders would allow public profiles provably associated with specific delegates, workers, witnesses or shareholders.
Delegates will be able to release updates, contact information and other important information to the shareholders in a public way that cannot be altered later.


557
Stakeholder Proposals / Re: Freebieservers.com is here
« on: May 25, 2015, 12:57:51 pm »
This seems like a great idea!
I've skimmed through it and from what I can tell:
You host free game servers in exchange for users viewing a 2 minute add before playing the game and you incorporate lots of unobtrusive adverts to fund it.
You also host occasional in game votes. The users participate in A/B testing, and advertisers can see how their products are perceived in an anonymous way that is of benefit to the end user.

Quote
Nxt - Case Study

One of our first partner programs was an integration we did with the nxt community  in 2014. A total of 6000 dollars was granted in order to attain users for the wallets at mynxt.info . In order to attain this goal, modals educating users about the uses of Nxt were set up on the platform. In addition, the site moved towards using tokens in order to further integrate the system into the user experience on the site. 

Campaign lasted 3 weeks time frame
10,000+ wallet sign ups
25 percent of the users used the wallets for transactions
Observable hike in number of transactions
Single most effective Ad Campaign by the Nxt Team
Per sign up charge, as low as .60 cents, in comparison with industry average of 12 USD

If a similar campaign was conducted for BitShares you would collect referral fees for those 10k users you signed up, and additional active-user fees for the 25% who continued to use bts. This means that there is no reason for the bts 'campaign' on your platform to be limited to 3 weeks as you are financially rewarded for bringing us more customers!
The full details of the referral program aren't public until sometime in June. But I'd guess you'd have earned a few thousand bts for the 10k sign-ups, and perhaps another few thousand for every transaction the 25% active users make.

If there is a specific product that BitShares can offer to target Freebieservers' users, then the financial reward could be quite substantial for all involved.
The BitShares voting functionality may also be useful for providing advertisers with product polling.

Issuing a UIA would also allow you to retain control over your digital assets whilst at the same time gaining access to the BitShares ecosystem and the potential customers that use it.

NOTE: I'm not sure how much Freebieserver's knows about BitShares but I think it is useful to have this kind of information on public display for other potential business partners to see.

558
General Discussion / Re: BitAsset 2.0 Requirements & Implied Design
« on: May 24, 2015, 07:01:38 pm »
The new changes aren't going to be rolled out right away after the announcement so I hope during the community discussions the product can be finalized before release.

559
I've also been thinking that the amount of bts burned is directly proportional to the profit priced in fiat/gold.
The transaction fees will have to be adjusted to remain competitive.

I found a thread by Ander that goes into a lot more detail. Predictions for the total supply that is likely to ever exist are around 2.7-3Bn.
The theoretical max supply limit is ~3.7Bn
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,11213.0.html

With the addition of the pay reward halving every 4 years, there will now be an absolute hard cap on the number of bitshares.


Starting BTS total: 2.5 billion.    This comes from current BTSX (2 billion), plus stake allocated to PTS, AGS, DNS, and VOTE (500 million total).

Starting reward per year: 157,680,000.    (50 BTS per block * 6 blocks per minute * 60 minutes per hour * 24 hours per day * 365 days per year).

4 years at this rate is 630,720,000.  After that, the reward halves, and in the next 4 years, we add half that.  And so on.   The total number of bitshares that will EvER be paid to delegates is capped at 1,261,440,000.    (In reality it will be less, because many delegates are low pay delegates).



Here is the hard cap of BTS at 4 year intervals:

Nov 2014:  2,500,000,000  (maximum 6.3% a year inflation)
Nov 2018:  3,130,720,000  (maximum 3.1% a year inflation)
Nov 2022:  3,446,080,000  (maximum 1.6% a year inflation)
Nov 2026:  3,603,760,000  (maximum 0.8% a year inflation)
Nov 2030:  3,682,600,000  (maximum 0.4% a year inflation)
Forever:     3,761,440,000


Also, every share of BTS that is ever burned reduces all of these numbers by 1!  So every time a share of BTSX is ever burned for trasnaction fees, etc, this cap goes down!

Every time any delegate ever receives less than a full pay block reward, the hard cap goes down!

For example, we are going to have many 3% pay delegates, in with a few full pay delegates who are developers, marketing team, etc.
Every single time one of those 3% pay delegates signs a block, these numbers go down by 48.5, because that is 48.5 BTS that cannot be created (because the opportunity to pay the full 50 BTS was missed).



So what is the reality of how many BTS there will be?  Significantly less than these numbers!  These are a hard cap which occurs only if there are 101 full pay delegates and no shares of BTSX are burned ever.  Both of those are not true, and thus the actual amount of BTS will be much lower.

560
I'm interested to know what the total supply of shares in the DAC will be if BitShares is successful and goes some way to augmenting the financial services industry.
As I understand it:
Shares are added to the total supply from block rewards, currently ~400k bts per day.
Shares are removed from the total supply as they are burned in transaction fees.

How many bts will be burned in fees if the ecosystem reaches mass adoption.
How fast is the  total supply of bts going to shrink, and how many shares do you think there will be in 10 years time?

561
Update on the TPP, with some curse words.  But I have to say, I agree 100% with this dude...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFAOIqPNpP4

Kevin Blanch (the guy in the video) claims that the TPP was passed by 62 votes on 21st May 2015 - and that now the US is dead and has succumbed to neo-feudalism with cheap labour in Asia as legalized slavery.
Quote
It is official, the United States which has been sick since 1980, HAS PASSED AWAY SHE IS DEAD. 
She was born SOMETIME IN THE 1770S, to a loving father GEORGE WASHINGTON, and her loving god father Alexander Hamilton, and Thomas Jefferson, she was nurtured by her WET NURSE Paul revere and Samuel Adams.
She was taught at a very young age to PROTECT against cheap imported goods, (tariff act of 1789. 
She had overcome great struggle as an infant, but she found strength form her Uncles teachings (tariff act of 1789.
She had been violently attacked as a young girl by an English Murderer (the war of 1812, she was ageing nearly killed by royal cotton slave owners who nearly kidnapped HER. Thousands of HER SONS AND DAUGHTERS died defending her. As a young adult she never lost her childhood teachings of protection of her people her sense in dignity and honor and respect to all People AS SHE WANTED a SQUARE DEAL FOR ALL.
In her middle ages she was again attached by a radical kidnapper who nearly took her (the Japanese ROYAL FAMILY AND THE Hitler INSANE KILLERS.  BUT after fighting of all these evil forces in her life, she finally succumbed to GREED, the official cause of death WAS IGNORANCE. 
Her executor of the will and benefactors KING Georges great granddaughter, issued a statement we the jolly old England who was once our child pre 1776, we will be taking over all affairs and interest. WE WILL BE KEEPING our Military colony, NEAR VALLEY FORGE, at the old capitol in Washington D. C. all United States citizens are now officially the property of the HOUSE ON NUCLEAR (Windsor, Hanford). thank you to the GOP UNCLE TOM OBAMA, and the soft ball liberals, that hijacked the old democrats, thank you to the Democrat super betrayal 8, thank you we never believed it could be so easy, MISSION ACCOMPLISHED, signed the QUEEN and her honored court of CORPORATION board members, also we would like to extend a great thank you to the Propaganda American MEDIA for making this all possible,  IN lieu of Flowers Please DIE so we don’t have to do it, WE DON’T LIKE TO GET OUR HANDS DIRTY. SIGNED your loving QUEENS;; by kevin D. blanch 5/22/2015 LAST OF THE CRAFTSMAN

562
MPAs are the bread and butter of BitShares. With the ridiculous BitAssets 2.0, the price is only going to go down. Just hope that the price hasn't crashed enough so that the project is dead before BM rolls out BitAssets 3.0
I'm curious as to what you think is ridiculous about the coming bitAssets release, and how you know the full details when it's not  public knowledge yet?

563
Technical Support / Re: Bitshares Multisig Usage
« on: May 24, 2015, 12:38:02 pm »
BM has said that Multi-sig features and related documentation will be released at the start of June in the upcoming announcements

564
I don't care about hours or sick days, I care about results.

If such things are relevant for a particular worker position, the worker can commit to any conceivable accountability system off chain, and provide a hash of that signed commitment on chain.  Flexible accountability systems can be enforced manually or by voting scripts if there's support for them, but I see no need to impose a one size fits all solution at the protocol level.
+5%

I support what ken is trying to do, but I don't agree with the implementation proposed.
Accountability is very important for any company but I think the really important factor is access to information.

Registering working hours and sick leave on the blockchain is too far IMO, employees should be free to use their own judgement to complete tasks but shareholders must be made aware of what they are doing.
Voter apathy could become a big issue if the relevant information about tasks (un)completed isn't blatantly obvious and available at the voting screen.
The shareholders need spoon-feeding information if they are to be expected to make rational decisions for the benefit of the DAC.

Easy access to information also reduces the impact of witch-hunts and smear campaigns.  I can easily see that Worker X has been producing on-time and not in fact "living it up on the company dime" like competitor Worker Y wants me to believe.

A level playing field of information keeps everyone honest.

565
Like you said, BM discussed this briefly in the latest dev hangout but only mentioned that there could be several price feeds different sized orders

Does your suggested method rely on price feeds from external USD/BTS exchanges?

Quote
If the manipulator had the power to spark a self-fulfilling cycle of panicked selling from other market participants that pushed the price down even further, then they would make more profit waiting to get hit on lower bids than to settle bitUSD at the asks, which is effectively like crossing the spread a second time. In practice though, I would still probably have a 24 hour non-cancellable delay on settlements to ensure minimum opportunity to take advantage of short term market aberrations not reflected in the current scale.

Could you explain this further? Specifically "make more profit waiting to get hit on lower bids than to settle bitUSD at the asks"

566
General Discussion / Re: Need brainstorming ideas
« on: May 24, 2015, 09:06:39 am »
Bitcoin takes a bath in power, bitshares takes a little shower
...money, messaging and bitID - in one place for you and me

567
General Discussion / Re: LTB metions Bitshares with Ripple fiasco
« on: May 24, 2015, 09:02:43 am »
Chryspano, do you know why they want to limit cash payments to 70 Euro?
A stepping-stone to force people to use credit/debit cards so that their transactions can be spied on and to enforce capital controls so that the people cannot transfer their wealth outside of the country to avoid bail-ins and wealth confiscation.

If you're looking for the 'official' reason then it probably reads a little something like this:
'terror terror... bullshit bullshit... safety terror... terror... stand-together to protect our freedom against terror... by restricting freedom... terror terror, terror terror.... Terror4Cash 4eva... ban cash, ban terror!'

568
General Discussion / Re: Discussing an attack on BitUSD
« on: May 24, 2015, 08:46:27 am »
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,16498.0.html

Fixed in the next release.

Would be interested to know more how it will be fixed without changing how the system operates...
AFAIK The system is changing.
Extensive documentation to be released in the next few weeks

569
It would...and you know what would go really well with it?

Built-in direct debit in the bitshares protocol, such that the provider of the card can instruct their systems to debit your account (built-in daily withdrawals limit and max amount per transaction included!), pending approval by the user.

That way, no more need to send crypto to the cryptocard company to fund the card..


Maybe it's just me, but... 8)


EDIT: Also good for other kind of services, like monthly recurring bills and what not.. but yeah, I originally thought about this in a card context.
I'd probably never use a normal bank card again.. imagine having debitcard.$yourname and the direct debit order there, where you can specify a) the source account that can issue a debit b) total max daily value and c) max value per transaction.

The funds would be safe in YOUR account, instead of the company. For maximum security it should also be possible to SUSPEND the authorization, such that you would only enable it when you know you'll be using the card .. ;)

Could the wallet hold a basket of bitFiat and when spending choose the most favorable exchange rate to make the purchase?

570
Quote
Under normal conditions, the futures market should be stable. You might see some spikes every now and then and perhaps some margin calls being made on an infrequent basis, but the market should track the proper values.

However, it is also possible that a market might have a tipping point - a price at which a snowball effect might take place. Lets say the current market is like this:

    The current price is 100 BTS per BitUSD
    It takes:
        10k BTS to move the price from 100 to 200 BTS per BitUSD
        10k BTS to move the price from 200 to 300 BTS per BitUSD
        10k BTS to move the price from 300 to 400 BTS per BitUSD
    When the price:
        Reaches 200, 5k BTS will be used on margin calls
        Reaches 300, 15k BTS will be used on margin calls
        Reaches 400, 25k BTC will be used on margin calls

If we throw 5k BTS into the market, not much happens - we moved the price a bit. If we throw 10k BTS, we force the market to spend another 5k BTS. We moved the price by 100, and the margin calls moved it further, multiplying the strength of our move by 1.5.
Excerpt from the blog, I hope that's ok

Dan discussed this in the dev hangout yesterday.
From what I understand; in the new system there will be several price feeds that take the liquidity available at a particular price into account.
So if you want to sell a large amount of bitUSD on the market you will not have the same 'snowball effect' power as in the current bitAsset design.
So the 'attack' described against bitUSD in Piachu's blog should be fixed in the new release.

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