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Messages - Permie

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391
I'm a little late to this announcement.

Could someone explain how this is positive to BTS?  I get why it's a positive for BANX but it's unclear to me how BTS is effected.
Public demonstration of how other crypto's can save money and effort by simply assimilating with BitShares.
The Guinea pig of the migration from cryptocoin to UIA

392
General Discussion / Re: Too many 100% delegates are bad!
« on: June 26, 2015, 05:07:03 pm »
The problem is the low market cap. If delegate pay (dilution) was increased then it would/could only serve to crash the price lower in a vicious cycle.

With the worker proposals the market cap may be less of an issue as nearly all dilution is shared among as many workers as bts members desire (vote for).
An important but expensive worker proposal will be able to be voted to the top and take the lions share of the reserve-pool (dilution) funds.
Which should mean that bts can pay a higher fee to workers.

A pre-DPOS 2 solution might be to reduce the number of delegates such that the pay can for individual elected delegates can be higher. Half # of delegates = twice the pay for each.
But members don't seem to want that - else there wouldn't be so many 100% elected delegates.

In 6+ months I don't think it will be such an issue

This hasn't been discussed I don't think, but it's more than likely that worker proposals will be introduced in bitAssets of their local currency choice.. ie. bitUSD for Americans or bitEUR for someone from Germany.

As for the too many 100%ers.. I am right in this boat first hand with a project where the delegate pay is not enough to carry the project forward. I have thousands of dollars being lost in this project monthly that does nothing for me at all.. it's all for BitShares.. so community support to turn it into something that can actually double our current volume is essential.

Our project is unique though in that, a great portion of what we receive goes straight into bitUSD payouts that in turn increase volume of bts with collateral, increase user transactions and volume and users etc. Just the liquidity created by the miners alone would make the bitUSD and other Asset markets really rumble.

On top of that, all our activity is taking all altcoins and bitcoins and funneling them into BitUSD.. so also increasing the rate of return on our delegates.

So with the delegate pay we are getting a lot of it is just feeding back into BitShares.

I agree though that in six months this will all change.

If you like to see our delegate proposal.. you can see it here http://vote.bunkermining.com

Probably not the best place to advertise our bid.. a thread about less 100%ers :) .. but now you got another example of where the delegate system as it is just doesn't provide enough for many of these projects to move forward at any super pace.

Our bid was for 6 delegates out of necessity due to the market cap.. and our plan is to get off the delegate pay as fast as possible. I have always been a strong believer that every delegate plan should come with an exit strategy, and I am glad with the new worker setup that will have to be built into contracts clearly.
Keep advertising!
Bunkermining is one of the best uses for delegate pay at the moment, IMO.
Excluding core development I think all delegate pay should go towards stimulating the bts economy and providing the liquidity that so many other use-cases need.

393
General Discussion / Re: BitLicense
« on: June 26, 2015, 04:08:34 pm »
I agree with ander.

The US government are essentially looters and they will make the laws that allow legally allow them to loot you once bitshares become big enough, regardless of what the rules are today. Afterall, we already have retroactive laws.

Which is why, it is worth repeating, get cryptonomex out of the US if you can!!!!!.
Right behind you on that, but it's not going to happen until the shareholders are willing and able to fund CMX moving their entire families abroad. Either that or have bts be in a position to sack/fire CMX unless they move countries. Even then it's still unlikely.
We can't exactly tell every budding US bts-entrepreneur to GTFO the country either.

Can the business incorporate(?) abroad and have those still on US soil as 'technically' remote work-from-home'rs?

If it means not being able to serve New York then so be it,
(Global market - NY) >> (NY Markets).

If BTS becomes the money machine that it can (without NY) then the worlds current financial hub NY would climb all over themselves to get a piece of the pie, and there would never be any need for BTS or CMX to get in to bed with crooks

394
I can't find an email address on https://buyanycoin.freshdesk.com/support/solutions/folders/5000226410

Is this a good target for a UIA fundraiser?
Perhaps members could hold ~10% ($1k) of their fundraiser target in escrow between trusted delegates, with the stipulation that it will go to the fundraiser if issued as a UIA.

Thoughts?

395
General Discussion / Re: New kind of order: Limit At Feed
« on: June 26, 2015, 01:28:39 pm »
IIRC This kind of thing is coming with DPOS 2
There will be separate price feeds depending on the volume you want to trade.
It calculates how much the market would move, and then gives you a price to buy them all the same price.

396
General Discussion / Re: Too many 100% delegates are bad!
« on: June 26, 2015, 01:14:06 pm »
The problem is the low market cap. If delegate pay (dilution) was increased then it would/could only serve to crash the price lower in a vicious cycle.

With the worker proposals the market cap may be less of an issue as nearly all dilution is shared among as many workers as bts members desire (vote for).
An important but expensive worker proposal will be able to be voted to the top and take the lions share of the reserve-pool (dilution) funds.
Which should mean that bts can pay a higher fee to workers.

A pre-DPOS 2 solution might be to reduce the number of delegates such that the pay can for individual elected delegates can be higher. Half # of delegates = twice the pay for each.
But members don't seem to want that - else there wouldn't be so many 100% elected delegates.

In 6+ months I don't think it will be such an issue

397
GUI is a lot more work when there are no JavaScript libraries that have implemented compatible crypto.    It seems those on this board have no clue that 2m bts for protocol level support is nothing!   


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'm a coding noob and I don't fully understand the work that goes into compiling libraries - but if that is a prerequisite then is that something that should be funded instead/as well as the 2M worker proposal?

398
General Discussion / Re: My pitch to the Overstock CEO
« on: June 26, 2015, 12:55:07 pm »
We are not looking for a quick ticket to retirement.
We have a mission.
BitShares is central to that mission.

I love bitshares  +5%

I love bitshares and you all  :)
The principles behind the talent is why I'm here

For the record I found the articles on BM's blog to be the most compelling reason to be interested in BitShares.
They detailed BM's stance on economics, the free market and profit as the most important tools in a path to freedom.
In this early stage in the crypto-industry investment in people and principles is a far safer bet than just in technology.
Roadblocks and bottlenecks are still being discovered and it's talented people that will navigate successfully.

I particularly enjoyed the "sufficient decentralization" article and others like it that lay out the limitations of what is possible, and then outline the appropriate solution to it. BitShares is the only community that I know of that has (potentially) solved so many issues currently holding crypto back from the mainstream.
I had the 'minimal requirements for decentralization" article bookmarked and went to link it here, but it just redirects to bitshares.org mainpage now.

I think it is important that they are easily accessible to newcomers

I got your pitch right here:

BitShares - the choice is yours  +100,000 TPS or -$100,000


BM just built a protocol that's adequate for mass global public consumption.  What makes you think that he is going to get all star struck when Jeff Bezos comes knocking?  Cryptonomex is firmly in the negotiating drivers seat.  The only competitors to the BitShares Smartchain (where you will integrate your business) are centrally controlled blockchains that, as Mr Byrne is fast finding out, are not cheap to develop, secure, or maintain.

The price of integrating into the BitShares Smartchain went up the moment the 100,000 TPS secret sauce was discovered.
I understand that the value of bts has increased since DPOS 2 has been announced, but why has the price of integrating gone up?
I'm all for charging as much as the market will bear, but I thought the idea of BTS was to be the platform infrastructure, as you mentioned, and for it to be open for everyone to start running businesses and personal services on it.
1,000 underdog small companies running on bts is more valuable (in more ways than profit) than 1 corporation that pays a hefty fee to integrate, IMO.

I may be misunderstanding what overstock are trying to do, but how would them choosing to use BitShares instead be in any way negative for us?
Yeah CMX might have to do a bit of consulting, but DPOS 2 is supposed to be ready-to-go and permission-less. Why would Byrne ever have the opportunity of stealing BM?
If they want control, bts gives it to them.
Are they trying to build a centralized Overstock-TM exchange? What is the value in that?

If DPOS 2 will be released how I think it will - why does the community need to sacrifice anything more than time to educate Byrne and let him know he can save money and get the job done and mainstream-ready?
BitShares is designed to be able operate exactly as a stock-exchange - what does Overstock need that bts can't give them?
Why would BM need to design anything extra for them at all?

399
General Discussion / Re: BitLicense
« on: June 26, 2015, 07:21:02 am »
As much as I hate to say it.  If there is any question about whether or not you need a bitlicense, and the cost is at all reasonable, I would go ahead and get one.

In my experience it is often better to pay for this "protection".  After all, if you don't something bad might happen you know.

if it ever comes down to defending yourself you have to assume that you will already have been painted in the worst possible light, and dragged through the mud in the media.  Having evidence that you attempted to comply with all stated rules at all times could make a big difference.
+5%

I think it's important that BitShares the ecosystem isn't registered, or seen that it needs to or should.
CMX could get licensed in prep for their privatised work, and by consequence give the dreaded "legitimacy" to the whole.

CMX could then profit from leasing their liscenced services and help run any future dev/worker proposals in the US in the future (legally ofc)?

400
General Discussion / Re: My pitch to the Overstock CEO
« on: June 25, 2015, 11:14:45 pm »
Agreed

401
General Discussion / Re: My pitch to the Overstock CEO
« on: June 25, 2015, 11:05:05 pm »
I have previously emailed Vaultoro, and got them to this thread https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,16724.msg214428.html
Quote

    Hello,
    I'm a shareholder of the BitShares crypto-ecosystem and I would like to
    discuss the mutually beneficial relationship that is possible between
    BitShares and Vaultoro. There is a thread on the bitshares talk forum here:
    https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,16724.msg214074.html

    I have CC'd fabian@bitshares.org (one of the 101 elected delegates of the
    BitShares ecosystem) in case of technical questions.

    A PDF info-graphic for a quick overview of BitShares is available at
    https://pdf.yt/d/atDhSKTY2mwequs0

    Could you please direct us to the relevant people to discuss the
    technicalities?

    The BitShares ecosystem is a decentralized asset exchange that allows user to
    issue their own assets. These assets can be traded in seconds, and allow the
    user to retain sole control of the private keys. The issuer of these UIAs
    (User Issued Assets) collect all fees generated, and can set KYC requirements
    limiting who can hold it.
    Vaultoro could issue such an UIA to enable your company to access BitShares
    users as potential customers and profit from every trade of your UIA.
    Existing Vaultoro customers would benefit by being able to hold their claims
    to Vaultoro gold on a decentralized platform where only they hold the private
    keys.

    Another aspect of the BitShares ecosystem that Vaultoro could benefit from
    are the Market Pegged Assets. These are assets that track the value of real
    world assets such as USD, CYN, Gold and Silver but are not subject to any
    counterparty risk, and are backed by over 100% collateral.

    Vaultoro could allow their customers exposure to bitSilver to test the demand
    before committing to purchasing more bank vaults and physical silver.

    Vaultoro could accept bitGold in exchange for Vaultoro Gold.
    The value of Vaultoro gold can then be exposed to the BitShares decentralized
    market to be traded. This brings another price finding mechanism to value
    Vaultoro gold against assets such as bitcoin, USD, CNY, Gold and Silver.
    Accepting bitGold for physical delivery of gold would open Vaultoro up to an
    entire new market and provide a convenient gateway from crypto to physical
    assets. As gold dealers are subject to far less regulation than traditional
    banks this gives Vaultoro a significant advantage.

    We look forward to hearing from you,
    Thank you

And to Amagi Metals

Quote
The BitShares ecosystem is a decentralized asset exchange that allows users
to issue their own assets. These assets can be traded in seconds, and allow
the user to retain sole control of the private keys. The issuer of these UIAs
(User Issued Assets) collect all fees generated, and can set KYC requirements
limiting who can hold it.

Amagi could issue such an UIA to enable your company to access BitShares
users as potential customers and profit from every trade of your UIA.
These UIAs could represent claims to particular Amagi products, your platinum
coins may be of particular value as there is yet to be a popular platinum
asset on the BitShares exchange.
The purchaser of one of your UIA tokens may not necessarily receive delivery
of your stock, but instead trade it's value against other tokens. The fees
for these trades will be paid to Amagi, as the issuer of the UIA. This means
that any still-warehoused products can be producing income by allowing their
value to be traded on the free market of the BitShares Decentralized Exchange
and collecting the resulting fees.

Another aspect of the BitShares ecosystem that Amagi could benefit from are
the Market Pegged Assets. These are assets that track the value of real world
assets such as USD, CNY, Gold and Silver but are not subject to any
counterparty risk, and are backed by over 100% collateral. Amagi could
benefit by holding some value pegged to gold and silver to better plan
stocking requirements and to hedge against any significant moves in the
USD:PMs markets. Assets such as bitSilver and bitGold can be stored in
exactly the same way as bitcoin.

Amagi could accept bitGold in exchange for Amagi Gold allowing gold bugs to
hold as much value pegged to gold as they like, knowing that at any time they can swap it for physical gold with Amagi. Issuing a UIA of "Amagi.Gold"
allows Amagi access to new markets and income potential as well as brand
exposure on a worldwide network.
The value of Amagi gold can then be exposed to the BitShares decentralized
market to be traded. This brings another price finding mechanism to value
Amagi gold against assets such as bitcoin, USD, CNY, Gold and Silver.
Accepting bitGold for physical delivery of gold would open Amagi up to an
entire new market and provide a convenient gateway from crypto to physical
assets. As gold dealers are subject to far less regulation than traditional
banks this gives Amagi a significant advantage.

Something along those lines but specific to overstock and focusing on their ability to offer their stock on the exchange as well as make use of UIAs and collect fees + referral system

402
General Discussion / Re: My pitch to the Overstock CEO
« on: June 25, 2015, 10:00:29 pm »
http://www.overstock.com/85772/static.html
Quote
boardofdirectors@overstock.com

INVESTOR RELATIONS

Contact: Mark Harden
Phone: (801) 947-5409
MEDIA RELATIONS
Phone: (801) 947-3564

https://twitter.com/overstockceo

How about we compose and send them the full pitch?

Worldstock, which sells artisan works of art from workers in impoverished countries all over the world. It seems to be very important to Mr Byrne and if there is a way a UIA or something BitShares can do to make it more efficient I think we could have a seriously good pitch.
They've been in the press alot with which platform Overstock want to use and BitShares could be in the spotlight.

Quote
It was too obvious even for me to miss! The central problem of artisan production – how to marry scattered small-lot production to mass demand – is indistinguishable from that of liquidation. And, by one of those weird coincidences that seem to govern my life, this was a problem I had already built the most effective mechanism to solve: Overstock.com.

Upon returning to the States, I formulated plans for Worldstock, a store within Overstock.com devoted solely to carrying the works of artisans – especially disadvantaged artisans – and selling them as inexpensively as possible so as to maximize the amount of return for them.
http://www.overstock.com/85772/static.html


403
Technical Support / Re: BitShares 2.0 SmartCoin
« on: June 25, 2015, 09:50:54 pm »
Or are you saying that by having the privacy tech implemented from the get go, the government will become habituated to it and be less likely to consider banning it than if the system becomes a success and then we finally decide to implement the privacy tech?
Yeah this, maybe it wasn't the best way to get my point across.

My thinking is that if BitShares was mainstream tomorrow, and everyone and her grandma was using it because some government decided to issue a gov-coin UIA - suggesting implementing strong privacy features could earn you an intense media frenzy of "terror terror terror" and resistance to its implementation.
Obviously that's not not likely to happen before privacy is implemented but I don't want to see these things left to chance.
Would a media frenzy be able to sway shareholder vote? I guess what I'm getting at is are the majority of shareholders here for the principles or not?

Once DPOS 2 is up and running and everything is subject to shareholder approval I think it should be ok, but we're not there yet and one major feature I expected from bts was basic privacy.
Could a major govt buy stake + bribery money to steer bts in their own direction?
I don't know if these are rational questions or not but getting them publicly answered can only be a good thing

I do understand that it's very very hard to maintain privacy and perhaps I am making a mountain out of a molehill.
I just really don't want BitShares to drift from it's principles of freedom from tyranny

404
Never say never. Who knows what's going to happen.
Or rather, what we as a community can make happen!
BitShares really can provide all of these features, give them the authority and control they want and all for zero infrastructure investment and be orders of magnitude cheaper to run due to decreased fraud and theft.

There's a tv show in the UK running now called 'The Bank: A matter of life and debt" that features NatWest (UK consumer bank) and shows how theyre supposedly 'all about the customer' now. It shows bank managers talk to very disgruntled customers who complain about slow cheque clearance, poor negotiation of loans and about the need to come into branch at inconvenient times. These bank customers were still vocally upset about the financial crisis of 2008 and a very anti-bank sentiment.

We should tell these angry tax payers of a way that their government (don't tell them to do anything for themselves!) could solve a lot of these problems and it wouldn't cost them any taxpayer money
That should be the focus. It will save the taxpayers money

I seriously think this could be possible if the mainstream media would ever report it.

http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2015/jun/24/the-bank-a-matter-of-life-and-debt-review

405
General Discussion / Re: BitLicense
« on: June 25, 2015, 09:18:56 pm »
If you want to engage in "Virtual Currency Business Activity" in the financial hub of the universe, you need a bitlicense.

Section 200.3 License
(a) License required. No Person shall, without a license obtained from the superintendent as provided in
this Part, engage in any Virtual Currency Business Activity.

http://www.dfs.ny.gov/legal/regulations/adoptions/dfsp200t.pdf

Bitlicense will give priceless credibility to cryptomomex and the BitShares network. It will have a salutary effect on the price of bts. Likewise, if you *don't* get a bitlicense, credibility will suffer, and price will not be informed by serious investors interested in a credible product.

It's all upside.
So long as there are no legal restrictions on further development etc

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