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Messages - Permie

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316
General Discussion / Re: Greek referendum
« on: July 06, 2015, 06:27:50 pm »
Quote from: JoeyD on July 06, 2015, 04:30:45 pm
During my time in the military I was struck by the concept of Auftragstaktik and I think decentralization like that would be the key to creating a better society on many levels, including business. Unfortunately the Cold-War utterly destroyed that line of thinking and seeing the same fear-mongering from that era being reintroduced I'm not too optimistic about the chances of the concept of decentralization of power catching hold anyti
Auftragstaktik - Mission-type tactics where goals, resources and time constraints are dictated, but lower down command are allowed to independently achieve the aims without micromanagement (correct me if this isn't what you meant).

I would agree with you that democracy could work if power was far more decentralized, except that some brave guys in America tried that and it didn't even last 100 years before their republic got fucked up.
Sustaining freedom under such a republic requires the teaching and continued investment on critical thinking. Good luck with that! I reiterate that humans care about themselves, and I believe that a peaceful society will emerge as the summation/aggregate of happy individuals who have the choice to govern their own lives as they see fit.

If power is there to be grabbed, then sooner or later a group of people are going to conspire to take it. If there was some way to make the media honest and ensure they tell people the 'truth' then maybe it could work.
BM posted an idea for a prediction market based journalism platform (can't find it, all the links are moved :/), that would function like Peertracks but for articles and such.
Maybe that is one way to make it work, but such systems of control (republics) aren't essential so why risk it all over again? What would the Founding Fathers do if they could try again? I'm not sure, but I bet they didn't predict just how HUGE an influence the media would gain over us, everyone has a bug in their pocket and a screen telling them what's "cool". That would need to be changed first

317
Technical Support / Re: Separation of UIA issuance and control
« on: July 06, 2015, 03:16:22 pm »
Quote from: DataSecurityNode on July 06, 2015, 02:17:08 pm
Interesting idea.. do you think this type of scenario would happen often?
I think it depends on the legal distinction between issuing and managing an asset.

Surely having the power to seize and reclaim assets from someone else is the same legal-ballpark as issuing the thing in the first place?
I don't see how removing just one item from the list of "problems" that regulators are going to have really solves anything.
Quote
Issuing a new asset
Authority to change fee structure of existing asset
Authority to seize and freeze existing assets held by others
Authority to change the supply of an existing asset
Authority to rename and rebrand an existing asset

Regulation and restrictions should be dissolved forever, imo, but the problem you're trying to avoid is getting arrested by those with the force required to do so. I don't see how this solves that problem

318
Technical Support / Re: Idea that just came to me to deal with the problem of micropayments
« on: July 06, 2015, 03:08:48 pm »
Quote
You're positive it requires $0.1 to pay for the cost of security per transaction? Interesting....

I'm not thinking so much tips so much as permanent streams of income in a micropayment channel. So large quantities of micropayments should equate to some decent amount of revenue.
No, I'm not positive!
But if there isnt such a high security cost, then there is surely nothing stopping a bts-parameter being changed to meet the demand for micro-tx. E.g
Code: [Select]
If tx < $5, then $0.01-fee
My assumption is that this isn't possible, otherwise micro-tx would be advertised as a feature of DPOS 2.0

I think what we need to know is if transaction-processing is an economy of scale?
Can transaction fees be lower (per-tx) if lots of them are bundled together and executed at the same time, as in a payment channel?

319
Technical Support / Re: Set of use-cases for BitShares 2.0
« on: July 06, 2015, 02:01:06 pm »
Quote from: xeroc on July 06, 2015, 08:57:47 am
As some of you noticed, I helped (a little) with the new bitshares.org page before I went on vacation. My plans back then have also been to prepare a more abstract list of features in terms of USE-cases.
Back then I couldn't finish them up in time and have them read through by someone else.
As the graphene project is now public I think I should ask the whole community for input.

I do have a rather low-tech description of use-cases and my current descriptions are "messy" at best. As I feel the list of use-cases should have a prominent place on the bitshares.org page we need them to be crystal clear and easy to understand.

This is what I have so far:
Quote
Use Cases
=========

BitShares offers a unique set of on-chain features that allows for trust-less
and counterparty-risk free interaction. In the following, we want to give a
brief overview of applications and use-cases for the BitShares network.

## Exchange Foreign Currencies, Commodities and Indices

## Stock Trading

## Decentralized World-wide Fund Raising

## Bond Market

## Prediction and Information Markets

## Investment Funds

## Direct Debit Card and Recurring Payments

## Random Number Based Services

Stuff that is not covered at all yet are features that can be built upon UIA .. like:

- initial public offers (IPOs)
- gift cards
- fan tokens (similar to baseball cards/BTS Music)
- members ship tokens
- ownership tracking
- authentication (bts login)

Other features that might result in applications:
 - threshold signatures (3rd party trusted-cold storage)
 - document verification

Who every can
  • come up with more use-cases or
  • add/improve descriptions
please feel free to post here!
This is something I'm in the process of doing too.
Identifying use cases, highlighting profit potential and cost reduction and conducting interviews with existing players like CCEDK, Banx and Peak Venture in order to get their experience of the process of integration.
A large hurdle to be overcome is the imagination of potential-integrators - clear and concise case studies can mitigate this.

I am currently in talks with CCEDK with aims to host these "BitShares Prospecti" on a private website for referral income, although I would be interested in contributing to a public document also.

Here's my thread discussing what I'd like to do: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,17212.msg219913.html
Quote
Identify business use-cases such as gold dealing, couponing, prediction markets, decentralized banking services and produce industry-specific and easy to understand Prospectus' outlining how and why to integrate with BitShares.

I will strive to use these materials to target and close existing businesses and walk them through the set-up, in public on the forums.
These use-cases will then be encorporated into industry specific prospecti.
I envision that 3 use cases for each industry will be sufficient that there will no longer be a need for public walkthroughs.
By that point, the prospectus will contain all necessary information and proven-claims of profit increases and cost reductions due to BitShares integration of competitors in the industry.

320
Technical Support / Re: Idea that just came to me to deal with the problem of micropayments
« on: July 06, 2015, 01:53:11 pm »
Are you saying that CMX should issue and manage a more centralized microtx-chain?
The fees are of the order $0.1 to pay for the cost of security. The only way I can see to reduce this cost is to issue a centralized chain where fewer witnesses and hardware have to be compensated.
Stan and Dan have said they're not interested in issuing such things due to the regulatory burden.

Although it could be an improvement on Changetip, a opaque centralized database.

I've had other ideas on how to solve the problem of micro-tx

Quote from: Permie on July 05, 2015, 04:37:13 pm
Quote from: rgcrypto on July 05, 2015, 03:34:26 pm
The only issue I have was that micro transactions are not ideal on bit shares at 0.20$ transaction fee.  :-(
BM has said that fees should reflect the value provided to the customer.

Fees need not necessarily be paid by the end-user, and the fee may not even necesarily need to be paid in transaction fees. Perhaps the social-media wallet-provider could front the fees to attract more customers, or the fees may be paid another way. Maybe tipping-users can have their fees paid for them if they advertise/tweet the tip to a threshold number of unique viewers.

Quote from: rgcrypto on July 04, 2015, 05:13:04 am
Few minutes ago, I had amazing customer service on elegant theme`s forum.

I've got an idea:

I thought it would be cool if I could send a BitUSD micro payment to this guy to thank him. Just like with ChangeTip.

This guy would be probably happy to have free internet money and then he would be incentivized to go through the process to open a wallet. This wallet has this micropayment functionality and keeps track of the referrals the micropayment bring in.

This wallet would have to be great at inviting people with good copy and an easy sign up process. Then for a viral loop, it would invite the new user to start tipping other and participate in the profit sharing of the wallet. "When you tip and bring in new users, we reward you with x% of all their future transactions"

A smart contract with multisig between the wallet provider and the wallet referrer could split the referral rewards on a monthly basis with a pre-defined x% of it's referral transactions. Everytime someone sends a micropayment the wallet and it's the referrer earns.

The x% would be defined by what is needed for funding development while being high enough to incentivizing it's users to tip.

If such a feature existed in a wallet, a marketer could use this and build a business by signing up people by simply sending tips for good work on the internet. (Fiverr, Content, Youtube, twitter, reddit, email, etc)
Not sure how this could work, but here are my initial thoughts

In this scenario you have 3 entities:
The wallet provider
The tipper
The tippee

The wallet provider wants to earn a profit from providing a tip-based wallet service. These profits can be earned in several ways:
Tx fees of the tippers
Referral income from the tippee
In-wallet advertising
Tip-tagged adverts - John123 wants to send you a tip for 10c! Click here to collect, did you know that XYZ exchange (CCEDK?) can convert to your bank account??
Gaining good-will amongst a particular community in hopes of boosting sales of their other products - in this example CCEDK's nanocard etc

The tipper wants to send a small amount of money to reward good content. They want to pay as low a fee as possible and are likely to want to see the full value of their tip go to the content-creator (tippee). They want this process to be as seamless as possible (one-click) and would like to earn cash-back if possible - perhaps this can be x% of any referral income paid to the wallet provider.

The Tippee wants to feel that their work is valued, they want their tip to be as easy to claim and spend as possible. They want to see instantly why they should bother following through and collect their tip. They do not want to see spam, or suspect they may be the target of a scam.
They would like to know of ways they can further monetize their content and would benefit from CONCISE infographics/info telling them what to do to use BitShares to increase their profits.

I really think that something like this could be the viral-advertising campaign that @CCEDK is looking for. (Could someone tag CCEDK for me, i dont know the userID of CCEDK or how to find it)

Perhaps tips cannot be instantly claimed. Tip-tx's could be bundled into a single transaction and the wallet-provider could pay lower per-tx fees as a consequence of delaying the tx's. Is a single large bundled-tx cheaper for the bts network to process? Is tx-confirmation an economy of scale?

I think the crux of this discussion is whether or not transaction processing can be compensated in a way other than in the units transferred (bts, bitUSD etc)

321
General Discussion / Re: Greek referendum
« on: July 06, 2015, 01:16:06 pm »
Quote from: JoeyD on July 06, 2015, 09:00:50 am
One problem I can't seem to solve with capitalism in general is that I rarely see the people who are actually providing or creating the value being the ones to profit. I haven't managed to figure out a capitalistic system that ultimately doesn't end up being in favor of parasites and malignant tumors.
Regulation encourages the rent-seeking behaviour, what we have now is Crony Capitalism or Crapitalism which is more akin to fascism than true capitalism.

In today's system, gains are privatised and losses are socialised.
Capitalism does not work if businesses are not allowed to fail and pay the consequences of not providing a valuable product or service to the market.

The problem of force can be solved with arbitration and reputation based conflict resolution.
If your reputation and respect in the market can net you $$$$ in profits for providing a service, then stealing $$ by being dishonest is nowhere near profitable. Crypto and real-time audits with smart contracts go a very long way to ensuring that arbitration is honest.

Nearly everyone has a problem with anarchy, as it's been sold by the media as chaos.

All markets and people have "problems". The crux of the debate is this: Who can solve problems more efficiently; a small group of "elected" officials (elections are media popularity contests) contained by "regulation" (competition stifling)
OR collections of motivated individuals with stake in the game (their savings), bound only by the risk of failure that they are willing to bear.

People are STUPID and individuals are SMART. It all comes down to mob psychology. Statism results in an apathetic attitude and dependence on other people.
I'll never believe in democracy unless someone can convince me that humans can be motivated to thoroughly research the political parties (hooray, we'll throw a BIGGER party if you vote for us! Don't sweat the debt!) when they are not directly impacted. Political change happens slowly and ain't nobody got time for that.
People care what affects them NOW. When you vote in a democratic election there is no way that you can consider society at large, predict the future, evaluate the profit-potetial (or missed opportunities) of each option, conduct interviews to ascertain foreign policy or perform background checks on your potential rulers. You vote for who you (are told) will improve your life the most.
"Newspaper says he'll give builders $$$, so I'll vote for him and lobby against anyone offering equal treatment, coz im a builder"
Would you want the popular kids at highschool running your life???

Capitalism acknowledges this fact and aligns the incentives for an overall outcome of progress and success, as determined by the choices made by individuals within society.

This may be a little off-topic but in a forum of a freedom-centric platform I would like others to understand that anarchy and freedom is possible.

322
Random Discussion / Re: Greek Collapse Could Hit U.S. Next! - Peter Schiff
« on: July 06, 2015, 12:50:07 pm »
Quote from: xeroc on July 06, 2015, 10:57:24 am
Quote from: Erlich Bachman on July 06, 2015, 10:26:13 am
1. currency (fiat/gov-bonds) - check
2. commodities - check (naked shorting)
3. businesses - check
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-05-06/snb-boosts-stake-in-apple-exxon-in-37-5-billion-u-s-portfolio
4. real estate - if it has a mortgage, then the bank owns it already

In fact, the bank's ownership percentage of all  4 of the 4 core asset classes has been going up over time.

It's a good thing that a new asset class was born:

5. immutable property (crypto)   

BitShares - the 5th core asset class
This opens eye .. kind of ..
though, people compare bitcoin (5) with gold (2) ..
would you consider gold being part of 5 also?
There was a Hangout last week with silverbug BrotherjohnF who discussed how silver is "the people's money" as the market is too small to manipulate compared to gold. I'm not sure I understand exactly what he meant but his point was that gold is super manipulated (like a premine as someone else said), and that silver is in the hands of too many people.
So I'm not sure if gold fits with "immutable property" alongside crypto. It was illegal to hold gold for 42 years, from 1933-1975. Sure, some people disobeyed and hid their gold but what a hassle. Pieces of paper and multi-sig make hiding crypto trivial in comparison.

The Wizard of Oz is an allegory for the desire for silver as the people's money, and the big baddies at the end of the yellow brick road (gold?) are actually powerless and rule behind the curtain with smoke and mirrors. Scary terrorism media headlines and blind obedience to the state sound familiar?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_interpretations_of_The_Wonderful_Wizard_of_Oz
Quote
In a 1964 article,[5] educator and historian Henry Littlefield outlined an allegory in the book of the late 19th-century debate regarding monetary policy. According to this view, for instance, the "Yellow Brick Road" represents the gold standard, and the silver slippers (ruby in the 1939 film version) represent the Silverite sixteen to one silver ratio (dancing down the road).

323
General Discussion / Re: Greek referendum
« on: July 05, 2015, 11:24:00 pm »
Quote from: Frodo on July 05, 2015, 08:20:06 pm
The fundamentals of society rarely get questioned, which leads to a thinking process that is trapped in boundaries provided by outside. That's why many people are unable to see the flaws of the underlying system and only encounter the symptoms caused by them. And I fear that can lead to simplistic decision making like "let's vote no, because we don't want austerity, because I don't want to pay more taxes and get less pension.". (Which is a very understandable reasoning, but yet a limited view of things.)

Quote from: mf-tzo on July 05, 2015, 08:47:05 pm
There are too many shits in this world that have to go once and for all if we want to live peacefully, free and democratically.
I'm not Greek but I certainly don't want to live in a democracy, the tyranny of the majority.
People do not vote on behalf of the common good, they vote on self interest. Capitalism caters to exactly this.
In a democracy the selfish wants of the majority rule over the minority who are forced to settle for less than they desire.
To quote Tuck Fheman "Good ideas don't require force"

Anarchy is the only way to sustained freedom imo. Anarcho-capitalism all the way

But rejecting a debt based economy and regaining sound money is a good first step, I hope it works out for the Greek people

324
General Discussion / Re: [ANN] Peak Venture Group Adopts the BitShares Exchange Network
« on: July 05, 2015, 11:07:12 pm »
Quote from: Akado on July 05, 2015, 09:47:41 pm
Stan, if a business joins BitShares, stakeholders should know if that said business will benefit BitShares and how it will achieve that, at least during these times which we can call the beginning of BitShares. That kind of stuff is important. What I mean is, the community needs to be informed enough to decide whether to support this or not.

The problem with "Not every one of them may consider reading posts on crypto forums a good use of their time or feel obligated to answer a bunch of questions about their business." is they might not get community support because of that.
It's their business to decide what they do or do not want to tell bts members.
They're not running for a delegate or asking for any funding, so why is it anyone else's business?
These guys PAY to integrate with BitShares in UIA and transaction fees.
If they go bankrupt, bts loses nothing other than future-profit-potential (which is only speculation and not real value).

Quote
they might not get community support because of that.
yes, this is true. There may be value in getting bts members on their good side, but if you don't like them; don't buy their products.

BitShares investigative journalism may be a profitable business, but it's not Peak Venture's job to provide that service

I seem to be countering a couple of your posts today Akado, sorry! Nothing personal, I just want this stuff to be public :)

325
Random Discussion / Re: Motivation Monday #12
« on: July 05, 2015, 10:54:51 pm »
Great post

326
General Discussion / Re: Ultra : Redesigning the forum for the blockchain era.
« on: July 05, 2015, 10:52:34 pm »
Quote from: Freebieservers on July 05, 2015, 09:32:25 pm
We would love to colaborate on ULTRA with any teams attempting similar approaches, however it needs to be said that upon researching the subject,
nothing on the scale and with the ambiton that were aiming for here has been attempted.
DPOShub has maybe 1/4th of the ideas and features we plan to provide within one month of development,
our team has proven in multiple crypto-shpere projects that we can deliver high quality work in a very short amount of time.
To that end, it is our opinion that unless currently existing projects are within release-candidate stage,
the technology provided by ULTRA will be a far more efficent allocation of time and resources.
 
Ideally, things like bumping and necroing posts will be obsolete in a system like ULTRA, while an approach needs to be more specificly outlined the idea of keeping
relavent data within arms reach is not an impossible task, features like view history, new content sections and the like can allow a user to always know whats going on when they are intrested,
also lets not forget that ULTRA aims to be part forum part social media, so following a topic or persons posts is very likely.
I like what I'm hearing from you guys
Here's to hoping you'll follow through  +5%

327
General Discussion / Re: Ultra : Redesigning the forum for the blockchain era.
« on: July 05, 2015, 09:11:54 pm »
Quote from: Chronos on July 05, 2015, 08:43:19 pm
I knew this would happen. I wanted it to. I have inertial scrolling. So there.

Bumping is so 1995. I would rather never see a bump. Posts should have content in them. (Just my opinion, of course.)
+5% !
But I do actually agree
These posts serve as our membership meeting minutes, the written record for future reference.
Who wants to read every single 'aye' or 'nay'? I'd prefer tallies and useful contributions to read

328
General Discussion / Re: what percentage of community members have short positions on the DEX?
« on: July 05, 2015, 08:12:50 pm »
I don't understand it and would rather HODL than risk it

Scared by the issues shorters had a few months ago.

I would love to leverage, but until it's simple I don't think so

329
General Discussion / Re: MaidSafe up 45%
« on: July 05, 2015, 08:10:27 pm »
Maybe some insiders know of a release?

Empirical seems to know what he's talking about with the weird crypto markets
Quote from: Empirical1.2 on July 05, 2015, 07:25:39 pm
Quote from: Empirical1.2 on June 16, 2015, 02:57:38 pm
Litecoin is still considered the next crypto-currency should Bitcoin run into problems and is also coming up to a block reward halving which could significantly reduce selling pressure. Combined I wouldn't be surprised to see the LiteCoin rally continue strongly.  Capital controls this weekend possibly for Greece could be good for all crypto too if it actually happens this time.

LTC up >100%  & I hadn't owned a single LiteCoin for ages previously :)
 
Quote from: Empirical1.2 on June 17, 2015, 02:58:13 pm

I believe it's the prospect of Greek capital controls, we witnessed a similar situation after Cryprus, crypto-currencies really took off.

In terms of percentage gains LTC & DGC could be the big winners,  followed by NXT & possibly PPC etc, then Bitcoin itself.

The one's that will increase but benefit the least from the Greece effect would be Ripple, BitShares, Stellar, MaidSafe and Ethereum if it's trading.

330
Stakeholder Proposals / Re: What if BitShares could have perfect privacy?
« on: July 05, 2015, 06:32:10 pm »
I've been reading around on privacy and I found some useful info on /r/cryptoanarchy and
I didn't realise HOW hard privacy really is.
IMO truly private/anon bitshares accounts cannot be associated with a forum user or other communication tool

http://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoAnarchy/comments/3biac4/requirements_for_a_communication_platform_for/

From user /u/DataPhreak:
Quote
    No logging of private information.
    Be able to go back in 'chat-history'.

These two things are mutually exclusive. For example, I know you frequent /r/communism /r/socialism /r/occupywallstreet and more. If i wanted to read through all of your posts, I could determine other details about you. Did you know it only takes 7 timestamped references to the weather to geolocate you to a specific city? One of the members of Lulzsec was busted based on the fact that he mentioned he was a freegan in IRC.

"Ops, espionage*. The Danish term is spionage.." Is Danish.

" My speedometer won't go +15mph, but it moves. How can that be? " has a dual sport. Honda XL600R

You see now why this is a bad idea? I'm just going to stop there.

Also, they would look at the date that the old one stopped posting and the new one started posting. Also, even though you may not keep logs, and even if the traffic is encrypted, if they can MITM like the government, they can watch for your upstream traffic and use it's time stamp to determine what you've posted. So, let's say the Danish government decides they don't like what this new wave extremist honda xl600r rider is posting. All they have to do is run the internet backbone through wireshark, filter out all IPs of people who don't have dual sports, watch for the one who connects to the website, and poof, he disappears.

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