Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Messages - Empirical1

Pages: 1 ... 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 [25] 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 ... 59
361
General Discussion / Re: Canon Coins? Bitshares CC?
« on: July 27, 2014, 01:04:27 am »
Most current Crypto Currencies are very difficult, if not impossible to change, especially if their inflation rate, or the amount of the currency that is put into production at any point in time is hard coded. We consider all such as dumb currencies. The smartest coins are coins that are most able to rapidly and decisively act with significant improvements and well timed changes in the market place. We believe the smartest coins will, in the long run, vastly out compete all dumb coins. We predict that people supporting dumb coins will do so, till the market proves to them the superiority of smart coins, and after they have lost significant capital betting on losing flash in the pan dumb coins.

Interesting project.

Quote
Most current Crypto Currencies are very difficult, if not impossible to change, especially if their inflation rate, or the amount of the currency that is put into production at any point in time is hard coded. We consider all such as dumb currencies.

I take the opposite view, I think dumb coins will vastly out compete smart coins.

If you want to win the coin race as well as benefit humanity you will do best to give them a currency with pretty hard coded initial rules and no or low, unchangeable inflation. (Alternatives will result in coin holders damaging themselves through greed and short termism as well as the financially uneducated succumbing to supporting strategies promoted by a small smarter minority usually using instant gratification as the hook.)

This is why gold has maintained a stable value for thousands of years - because we can't mess with the initial rules (regarding it's inflation and production) too much.

Fiat money on the other hand I would say is the example of 'smart money'  -  coins where there is no hard-coded limit/backing and no guarantee/confidence they will maintain 'X' limit in the future with regard to inflation/production.  No pure fiat currency has lasted more than 50 years & in their collapse 'smart coins' have left the bottom 90% of their users much worse off. I suspect applied to crypto we will see the same events unfold, just on an accelerated time-scale.

362
Ten Most Trusted (Kind of a variation of RDPOS)

Up to 101 unique trusted delegates are needed to decentralise & secure the system. However the task of trying to vet, choose and monitor a large number of delegates is an incredible challenge for the average active shareholder never mind the apathetic shareholders who just want the system to work.  This makes it a significant attack vector.

Premise The ten delegates with the most approval have more trust from the shareholders than the delegates with lower approval.

Conclusion They can be trusted with more responsibility than the other delegates.

- What if a normal delegate only got transaction fees but additional fees (& in future equity release) were only distributed to the ten most trusted delegates?

- What if only the top 10 were able to have a slate of up to 20 delegates (But the system doesn't cast the vote for anybody on their slate already in the top 15.)

Then we as a community  can primarily focus on, promote, debate & discuss who are the ten most trusted and best to represent the DAC.  We can make sure we particularly hold them to account and keep negative influences out  (Tracking ten peoples slates, spending & their development/marketing strategies is easier than 101 which is too hard & noisy for us to focus on as individuals let alone as a group.)

The idea is not to give them control of the system but a greater influence and responsibility because they are more trusted and the task of managing/monitoring large numbers of delegates is not realistic for the average shareholder.
 
However regular delegates can still campaign to regular users as well as be incentivised by fees.
(& have a fair shot at becoming a  'Ten Most Trusted' themselves - because positions 1-15 can't be influenced via the slates of the incumbents.)


363
When will they increase the withdraw limit?
I just asked this question to bter support today, but no answer yet........a 5k withdraw limit on a token that cost's 0.0000154, is nothing short of just stupid.....

Bter is the best exchange I've used. The problems they had yesterday showed it was a good idea to have a limit to get comfortable & safe with the system.

At the same time there are a lot of buyers who want to buy more BTSX but not until they can withdraw the BTSX they already have on bter off the exchange. So yes it's frustrating :(

364
General Discussion / Re: Ethereum crowd sale is live
« on: July 25, 2014, 10:42:07 pm »
It isn't about "fairness"... it is about the good of mankind.   Mining is rewarding people for consuming resources that produces no residual value and makes all of society poorer for it. 

Ie: because of mining electricity costs more and everyone pays for it.

Socially awkward geeks living in their parents basement distributing coins by burning electricity is no basis for a fair distribution. 



 +5% I've used that image in a response on BTT https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=679185.msg8027034#msg8027034

365
Hmm, not seeing any competitions on the alternate or alternate announcements cryptocurrency forums, guessing they're not welcome...




366
Just a thought on penalizing people who don't vote...Keeping mind that I am no expert on this stuff by any means. I barely get it in many ways....BUT i would say that I think someone needs to focus a lot on the usability of the system for it's intended purpose by it's intended USERS

How much thought, time, energy do the expected USERS of the system want to put into VOTING?  Is that why they are using the system so they can spend time evaluating DELEGATES and voting for them?  I don't think so.  Sometimes we can get so caught up in the myriad of interesting and sometimes marginally more beneficial ways to do something and forget about how we encourage adoption and continued use of the system. 

Speaking for myself, I am for the Keep It Simple System as much as possible.  I don't want to spend much if any time voting for delegates....but I do want the system to be safe and secure.

Why not reward people for voting?

I think that's better, keeping in mind I'm only thinking of the end users point of view, not the economic or technical merits.

You have to think and talk USER BENEFITS to encourage use so making "money" is certainly a BENEFIT.  If anyone ever creates a user guide (good idea BTW) they should put all the technical details in an appendix for those who are interested but focus on BENEFITS and use of the system primarily.  Just put a small section with bolded catch phrases like "Delegated Proof of Stake" with a link to the appendix.  Don't put it in their face and force them to wade through it.  Many will be impressed enough by the cool catch phrases.  :) 

However, my honest view is that as a USER of the system, I would expect the system to secure itself or to have the "carbon units" if there are any, take care of it.

I'm sure it must have been discussed before, but it seems like BTSX which is being burnt that is currently benefiting all shareholders, would have to be re-directed instead as dividends to active voters only, if that were technically possible.

Then the system will have fees that undercut the current trading system, a big benefit to users,  and if they take the time to vote occasionally they could actually earn a decent rate of interest, an even bigger benefit to users. (The fewer people voting the bigger the interest rate, so this system will naturally attract more voters if the voting pool becomes small.)

367
Just a thought on penalizing people who don't vote...Keeping mind that I am no expert on this stuff by any means. I barely get it in many ways....BUT i would say that I think someone needs to focus a lot on the usability of the system for it's intended purpose by it's intended USERS

How much thought, time, energy do the expected USERS of the system want to put into VOTING?  Is that why they are using the system so they can spend time evaluating DELEGATES and voting for them?  I don't think so.  Sometimes we can get so caught up in the myriad of interesting and sometimes marginally more beneficial ways to do something and forget about how we encourage adoption and continued use of the system. 

Speaking for myself, I am for the Keep It Simple System as much as possible.  I don't want to spend much if any time voting for delegates....but I do want the system to be safe and secure.

 +5% OK yes that makes sense. I would only want inactivity fees if the system was/becoming really insecure as a way to incentivise people to vote.

2) The default wallet can hard-code the developers own account as the default recommendation

I like something simple like that. Wouldn't the developers slate of delegates end up getting enough approval power that if the developer was compromised the system could be insecure? (What about giving delegates a smaller slate with a maximum of of 5-10 people?)

Otherwise I like the general idea. I see now the whole voting thing is not something most end users will necessarily want to participate in. They just want to use the thing and know that it is secure.

Edit:
I barely get it in many ways....
That's exactly how I feel  :)



368
Quote
With this in place there is no need to charge extra for not voting.
Charging for not voting or psychologically better giving those an advantage that vote could still have a positive effect.
Thoughts?
Pro: more participation in voting means it is harder for "bad stake" to get and stay in the top 101.
Con: those that don't want to vote do not see the benefit in voting in the first place and might make unqualified votes then. They might just vote for one random delegate to get the benefit.

Yeah I agree, if there's no measurable individual advantage to voting, apathy may be a problem.
I think I read somewhere that NXT only has 30% forging participation and they have some big whales.
I doubt we could expect more than 25% of the BTSX stake to vote and much less actively vote.

Does DPOS currently automatically remove approval from delegates that are not technically performing well?

369
Lol @ me being example bad guy.  How'd people figure it out ?!

No you're looking at it wrong, anybody could turn out to be bad, but you were someone I could definitely see myself & others voting for right now, so you're the good example guy  ;D  :P

As for the other stuff, I'll watch from the sidelines a bit, I need to get up to speed with how voting technically works right now & also what it is possible to implement etc.

370
If I vote for you 'Agent86 delegate' & you have 'Gamey delegate' on your slate & Gamey turns out to be bad so you remove him from your slate, because I voted for you doesn't it mean that my shares also stop voting for Gamey? If so that is good. Or have I misunderstood?

Edit: oh ok if it is like you're saying I have misunderstood
No your shares wouldn't stop voting for Gamey in that scenario.  It wouldn't be good to implement it the way you are thinking.

Ok what do you think of this. Having a table of selection criteria that you can select from and then the system votes for the 101 delegates that most fit those criteria?

Edit: What I mean is, it seems that RDPOS is just trying to simplify the process of electing a good group of delegates. But obviously this introduces a whole group of new potentially bad incentives into the system. If you could select criteria (performance and other) on a checklist and then have the system select delegates. It seems that would be a solution to simplifying selection of delegates you like without having to deal with the potential issues of RDPOS as it is now.

371
Ok I can see the need for something like this now that I'm thinking of voting myself.

I like to keep a portion of my stuff in cold storage & I don't want to have to access my funds just to change my vote every few weeks. Voting for a few people I really trust that maintain good slates passes the burden to my favourite delegates to actively police the system and as a result I'd only have to get involved in an ermegency. (Also it's unlikely an avg. shareholder can be expected to form an opinion on more than +-15 candidates I would guess.)

Though I agree with Gamey that from a marketing perspective it 'feels' like a negative. (Also enjoying reading your thoughts Gamey on how it could change the incentives.)

Personally I'd like to be able to actively change votes of BTSX I have in cold storage but it doesn't seem like that would be technically possible.
Empirical, you are not understanding the proposal.  You still can't change your votes without making a transaction.  You vote for a particular slate but if the person whose slate you chose changes their preferred slate, the slate you voted for does not automatically update.  You would have to vote again.

If the proposal allowed you to just defer your voting to someone else and let them vote on your behalf it would be an even worse idea than it is already.

If I vote for you 'Agent86 delegate' & you have 'Gamey delegate' on your slate & Gamey turns out to be bad so you remove him from your slate, because I voted for you doesn't it mean that my shares also stop voting for Gamey? If so that is good. Or have I misunderstood?

Edit: oh ok if it is like you're saying I have misunderstood

372
 +5% Great news.

Maybe 'burntbread' is still available on BTSX :)

373
Ok I can see the need for something like this now that I'm thinking of voting myself.

I like to keep a portion of my stuff in cold storage & I don't want to have to access my funds just to change my vote every few weeks. Voting for a few people I really trust that maintain good slates passes the burden to my favourite delegates to actively police the system and as a result I'd only have to get involved in an ermegency. (Also it's unlikely an avg. shareholder can be expected to form an opinion on more than +-15 candidates I would guess.)

Though I agree with Gamey that from a marketing perspective it 'feels' like a negative. (Also enjoying reading your thoughts Gamey on how it could change the incentives.)

Personally I'd like to be able to actively change votes of BTSX I have in cold storage but it doesn't seem like that would be technically possible.



374
Sorry guys for all the dumb questions

how long does withdraw from Bter take?  Been 24hrs with nothing still


HI,

We are upgrading to the new wallet and hopefully it will solve this issue.

Great thanks  +5%

375
:D :D :D :D

I think @bytemaster may pack the openssl dll with the install file. maybe it can slove the problem.


Great :) Thanks again for your help! I will vote for you.

Pages: 1 ... 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 [25] 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 ... 59