Personally I think the most innovative thing Invictus has created is Protoshares, an alt coin that actually gives you a reason to hold it because on a set date it gives a thing to whoever holds it.

That is a huge advancement and whether or not Bitshares works, Protoshares is going to have an enormous impact on how altcoins are made moving forward.

What does it offer?   I don't want to register because I dont trust these new exchanges who could just walk away with my BTC or PTS.  Silfax had lots of trouble with his and I can see he has a lot of reputation, who built this exchange?

I wonder what would have happened if they hadn't made the change and mining was done in three or four weeks.  Seems like that might be better given the purpose of the project is to give shares of invictus innovations future products to people starting on January 1st.

Protoshares that are mined after january first will be much less valuable unless they're basically bundled with a protoshare - Can someone from Invictus explain how this will work?  If it's a fork it seems like once the issuance date passes these will have missed the boat. 

Maybe it would be better to instead do a 2 month mining frenzy then wait 1 month of hot-potato trading as people speculate on the value of what the Protoshare will deliver to them (Bitshares), then whoever is holding the PTS gets a bitshare, and the protocoins start trading based on speculation of the value of the next project to be forked from it.

I also think it might be better for IPOcoins like this to simply have 10% of the mining reward go to the company being funded.  90% reward is plenty to incentivize miners and then you don't have to have this nutty drop everything to mine strategy that saw bytemaster run himself on no sleep and lose funds because it was bugged alpha code.   If this were just an altcoin and you were just developing this altcoin that would be very unpopular but given the point of this coin (to raise funds and support the development of blockchain-products) I think 10% is very modest and would better align the developers motives with doing the best for the community instead of scrambling to grab everything they can or else lose out on their own creation.

What say you?

Nothing is going to happen next, this is worse than the Novacoin premine, since here it can't be fixed as easily.

The decision made to intervene with the difficulty is a glimpse at how Invictus will treat problems in the future, with blatant force. The idea that you can manipulate a market(mining markets included) is philosophically opposed to everything bitcoin is about.

It was a huge mistake, and now this coin is tainted and cursed imho. What should have happened is simple. Let it run it's course, and if everything was mined in 2 weeks well there's nothing you can do about it. Either deal with it, or start over.

If anything, you should have retroactively adjusted the block size mining rewards according to a new preset difficulty scale, and so essentially all balances and txn amounts would have been cut by a consistent %. So those who mined 10k protoshares for example would have been left with 2k (as an example). Yes people who had already bought some would have been screwed with less than they bargained, but it is at the very least morally equivalent to what you did to the rest of us.

Perhaps this is still a viable option, of course those who benefited from this blatant manipulation will all of a sudden wake up and realize manipulating the protocol like this is bad - merely showing their hypocrisy, since everyone who already mined a bunch loved this decision. Limit market supply -> price goes up.

All the excuses I'm hearing remind me of that guy who owes me money and keeps telling me about how he had to pay for his car to be fixed, and then he lost his phone, and then his cat got sick...IT'S IRRELEVANT OF THE PRINCIPLE!

If you're right, Invictus will fail and the coins that have been mined will be worthless.  I'm sorry you made an investment in hardware that won't pay off, but at least by not holding any coins you are not exposed to their future mistakes.   

Personally I think this was a painful experience for the invictus team and they will learn from it with the next blockchain launch but only time will tell.

It's your right to feel however you want about Invictus, but they definitely did not benefit from what happened.  I'm sorry you invested based off of what was clearly an unsustainable situation, I suspect it was that exact phenomenon - that all the blocks from a 2 year blockchain would be mined out in a few weeks - that led to the decision to fork, because the network power was continuing to grow faster than the max 4x difficulty adjustment could compensate,  which was causing most of the power to not even be doing anything productive since block times were as low as 20 seconds.

This was like an IPO where the founder was not able to arrange the funds to buy ASAP and had no options to exercise - If Invictus called for a do-over it would be other people crying foul because they mined or bought coins that would then be worthless, yet they wouldn't get their cpu cycles or BTC used to purchase back.


As far as the market price goes, its not that the price was inflated now so much as it was deflated before.  The first buy I did was from bytemaster @ .01, like the second trade that ever happened.  As speed increased the market was flooded with supply which caused a glut of sellers and few buyers since everybody who wanted it was mining and finding blocks for themselves.   

As far as the difficulty is concerned, they botched that one real good.   I hope they get it better next time because clearly its better for everyone if this had taken 8 weeks compared to 4 days.

There is no winning this scenario, the question is what happens next.

Trading currently halted on the exchange, things bugged while the developer was sleeping - he's sorted out who lost what and reimbursed but trading is down for at least another few hours while they modify how BTC withdrawls take place.

Quote from: bytemaster on November 07, 2013, 04:54:50 pm

We are also accepting Keyhotee ID PreOrders for 100+ PTS!

http://invictus-innovations.com/founder-sign-up

Jesus Christ! 100+PTS?

That is like 10 BTC. Sorry but who is going to pay 100+ PTS for a Keyhotee ID?
Maybe you mean more like 12 PTS.

Quote from: bytemaster on November 07, 2013, 08:30:15 pm

Quote from: Lighthouse on November 07, 2013, 08:07:55 pm

Quote from: bytemaster on November 07, 2013, 06:35:04 pm

Quote from: Lighthouse on November 07, 2013, 06:31:49 pm

I agree,
the price was 12 PTS yesterday, this is a big drop.

It was actually a major price hike considering the cost of acquiring PTS and their value to those who believe in what we are doing enough to buy a Keyhotee ID.

I would argue that "price hike" based on current exchange rates is irrelevent.  If you were selling a good that was resellable it might be a valid concern, but given that you expect the value of PTS to go up over time (I assume) it doesn't make sense for this to be price sensitive.

You should not change the price until exchanges exist, but it would be much better if you didnt change the price at all except to lower it.  You will get more people willing to spend 25 PTS if they feel like they're getting a value from you (because it's cheaper than the current BTC exchange), you lose nothing and over time you'll probably gain more value from the PTS than BTC because PTS has more potential for exponential appreciation.

I think you should set the minimums at .25btc or 25 PTS and keep it there until it's flatly untenable.

There is overhead associated with adding names, and they are a premium product....   My reasoning for hiking the price is because the current cost of mining 100PTS is very low... and the REPUTE points you get for being a founder are supposed to indicate that you invested at least $100 in your name.    100 PTS right now only means you invested 1 day of CPU power...   

If you anyone is willing to buy at a Keyhotee ID at $50 or $25 but not $100 then post here.   I would like to understand the demand...

Very low? Even with digital ocean it took close to $100 to mine just hundreds of PTS. Difficulty has skyrocketed.

Now you're right, it is cheap to mine if you mean to say over the long term if everyone mines for months non stop but the last week or so it was extremely difficult to mine to the point that you had to do a fork.

I doubt many people have 1000PTS. I think most people have around 100PTS and many don't even have that so this price point is kind of comical at this point in time. In the future it will be just as comical because when a real exchange is up the price will probably be even higher for a good while. 12.5 PTS is around 0.25 BTC. 

Quote from: bytemaster on November 08, 2013, 01:08:05 am

I have devised a solution to the problem of  declaring a price fix indirectly for my Keyhotee ID prices.

I will now ONLY accept payment for Keyhotee IDs via ProtoShares and will credit your ID with the market value of the ProtoShares as of Christmas Eve so you do not lose any appreciation and it all gets credited to your ID.

This is what you should have done all along. Protoshares are a sort of credit coin or stock which represents all of Invictus Innovations. It should be that you only deal in PTS and this way the value of PTS increases.

Keep in mind these posts were a few days ago when the value of 100PTS was substantially lower than .25btc, and mining was about 32x less difficult.

This is exactly what I was concerned about though, now they either have to lower the price or have fewer people take up their pre-order offer because its simply not economical.