I thought you said bond market would be part of 1st proposal?  Where is that?

Bytemaster must add a bond market or any high net worth stakeholders are not going to care about these features involving fees.

UI is nice but add a bond market as a must have priority feature. The prediction market is a must have priority feature for people who aren't high net worth but who want a way to interact with and earn money.

Otherwise how do we sell Bitshares even with a new interface?

BitShares Development Proposal
by BunkerChain Labs and Cryptonomex, Inc

The purpose of this proposal is to define a statement of work for taking BitShares to the next step.  Our goal is to make the user experience of BitShares equal to or better than existing exchanges, and enhance the current referral program to become more profitable.
This proposal is divided into several independent features that will be paid for upon completion.

Cryptonomex has identified the following mini-projects with fixed pricing.  BunkerChain Labs will be overseeing the project and acting as an intermediary between Cryptonomex and BitShares.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/12hWyasMJ5mL1fboAt9ZK8FEf0c7o_q-1bwm5ItsLNGo/edit#

We would like some community feedback on the proposal before we actually create the workers and open it up for voting.

We need the UI for prediction markets, and margin trading. If that isn't put in place then there will remain the low liquidity problem and it will be hard to attract users even with a nice UX/UI.

If those elements are put in then I'll support the worker proposal but how much would it cost?

When someone talks about long term investment into crypto coin, this sounds really funny. What long term are you talking about? They all get out of dated in less then three years,

Bitshares isn't supposed to be static. The altcoins which die like that have developers who simply stop innovating. If the developers continue to improve and evolve the blockchain then the blockchain will remain relevant. Also the community around the blockchain brings value to it in the form of exclusive opportunities.

When another blockchain comes along which offers better technology and more innovation than Bitshares then I'll have to agree with you but right now no other blockchain does what Bitshares is specialized to do. Any other blockchain which tries would have to copy Bitshares and then build a new community and ecosystem. This gives Bitshares first mover advantage in the decentralized exchange/financial platform just as Bitcoin has first mover advantage in cryptocurrency and just as Ethereum has first mover advantage as world computer.

It doesn't mean there will not be competition because there probably will be a second place, so you might have SAFE Network and Tauchain compete with Ethereum, you might have NXT compete with Bitshares, you might have Litecoin compete with Bitcoin, but the point is each blockchain is so unique in what they offer, and has different communities and businesses around them, they all will likely make quite a bit of money if you look at the potential amount of money out there.

Hundreds of billions of dollars could be out there, and Bitcoin is currently at around a 5 billion dollar market cap. This would mean there is room for Bitshares to reach a billion dollar market cap, provided that the services and utility brings in enough people that it's worth it. Can other chains offer similar opportunities? Yes but they might not have the exact same opportunities at the same time, they might have different companies around them, and if you think about it like the video game industry then they might have different exclusives.

because better blockchains come out. It is more like a donation to developers than an investment. Sometimes, early adopters make profit only because much larger number of later adopters suffer loss.

But they don't come out overnight, and then no one would know about them which means they'd go through the same community building marketing process Bitshares had to go through, or Bitcoin. They might be better at marketing but still, as long as Bitshares has talented people supporting it, it doesn't really matter if some other blockchain is developed.

A group of banks could spend a few billion dollars building a blockchain which is far superior to anything out there and it wouldn't change the fact that a lot of people would choose to be loyal to Bitshares because of the unique business relationships they've developed and unique UIAs on Bitshares which the bank blockchain doesn't have.

As for BTS, it has a special purpose as collateral and fee token. As a user, you need only enough of them to satisfy these needs. For spinning up bitshares ecosystem, it does not matter which asset do you hold or trade. Centralized exchanges don't issue any special tokens at all, and yet some of them are quite successful.

Centralized exchanges do have exclusives though. The only reason people used MasterXchange or Holytransactions is to access the UIAs of Omni. People use Counterwallet to buy and trade in certain tokens or to deal with LTB. People use Bitstamp to deal exclusively with Bitcoin. And you have centralized exchanges which deal with a lot, but maybe the issuer of the UIA exclusively launches the crowdsale on one particular exchange and that forces everyone to use that.

So I would say the exclusive opportunities are what drives growth. It's not a matter of copying what is already offered elsewhere but to offer stuff which isn't offered anywhere else. Bitshares 2.0 lost a lot when they got rid of interest on Bitassets but didn't replace it with interest from a bond market or anything else, but Bitshares also gained a lot of new features  with 2.0 which people haven't yet figured out how to use.

Quote from: jsidhu on November 04, 2015, 07:16:17 am

The network is a settlement chain.. There will be micropayment channels for these things going fwd, unless bm can prove that these arent secure enough and justifies creating faster settlement confirmations.

Micropayments are not part of bts yet because of profitablility and business reasons (referral program) .. not because of "security concerns" .. for instance, microtxs are possible and cheap in MUSE

Micropayments will be possible in BTS so it's not a big deal but for now UI/UX are a bigger concern. Get the exchange working first, and then get micropayments working.

The exchange brings much more sustainable and immediate value to Bitshares. Liquidity is necessary for smart coins / bit assets. It's also better for the price to have a nice functioning exchange. As a sustainable ecosystem is built around BTS then it will be a lot easier to do micropayments or anything else.

Muse can do micropayments, but Muse isn't BTS.

As much as a want to tell people about Bitshares, i haven't. You forget, we are on the cutting edge and willing to make mistakes and lose money (as much as it hurts). Most of the people I would recommend are not crypto-computer-liberty-nerds. They are not going to have the patience to deal with all the issues. The people who need this the most are the ppl who can't afford to lose money on alpha testing. They need a rock solid product.

After spending five minutes on the site, any newcomer should be saying, "Oh, that's how it works!." instead of "What the #$@% is this??"

I want to fight the power not the code.

How would you lose money if you're not day trading? If you invested in a stock sometimes it's lower than when you bought into it because you got in at the wrong time. This could happen with any stock.

Inexperienced short term investors typically only think about the next 3 months, or even the next week or few hours, but that's not a good strategy for long term investing. Bitshares has existed only since 2014, which means it's only 1 year in.

Facebook stock didn't look too good one year in. The point is most of the time when you're dealing with 1.0 or 2.0 you're going to have bugs. The beta testers are basically us.

Bitshares 2.0 is beta level right now, but still of high enough utility to be useful right now and this utility will only increase over time. If you don't tell people about it now then you'll only be telling short term speculators who will get in during a bubble and pay a whole lot.

In investing it's about buy low sell high, not buy high and sell low. Remember Bitcoin is dead? This is the time where people are saying altcoins are dead and are all shitcoins, and all of the prices of all altcoins are looking pathetic, but that doesn't mean the altcoins aren't valuable.

Bitcoin is also cheap compared to where it was in 2013. Imagine how much money hedge funds and others have lost over the course of 2014 and 2015? Yet people in Bitcoin are still telling people to buy Bitcoins. I think the Bitshares community has a lot less confidence in their technology, which means there should be more active support of Bitshares, starting businesses, contributing code, buying Metafees or investing in associated startups.

The way you bring more value is to invest in the startups around Bitshares just like the Bitcoin community does when Bitcoin price goes down. Remember what 2014 and 2015 have been about for Bitcoin? It was about VCs investing billions of dollars into Bitcoin even though Bitcoin itself is only worth less than 5 billion dollars during that time.

Bitshares is worth 8 million right now. Where are the VCs? If there are no VCs then where are the crowd fund campaigns, and will you support the worker proposals? If the answer is yes then Bitshares will continue to build.

Quote from: mike623317 on November 09, 2015, 06:02:50 pm

Quote from: ValentinJesse on November 09, 2015, 08:39:41 am

@mike623317 @Xeldal

Or you can do it like this (Adapted the CEX.io "Instant Buy" for Graphene.)

Simple

I really like that 
I hope we can consider doing this for the average joe who is not a trader and those who have no interest in trading, just converting fiat in to BTS or Gold, CNY etc.

Yep. This could be the landing page and we would have other tab for trading with more tools for the day trader.

Don't forget to add a section for people who would learn to earn BTS. Some people cannot afford to buy so you should have in small print some sort of note or option like, "Out of funds? Click here to learn about opportunities to earn BTS."

Additionally when their balance gets to zero, just like in arcades, you might want to suggest this screen to them. This could be like the "continue" screen. Use the theories behind gamification.

That particular screen is excellent in some ways. It looks a lot like an ATM machine, but I think what we should aim for is a cross between ATM machine and arcade machine.

@Xeldal

Haha! i like them. The only problem is that Yunbi displays the data in the pop-ups in a horrible format. They should cut the "Open""Close""High""Low""Volume" (and the random MACD/HIST garbage below completely) and just replace with "O, C, H, L, V" and display the list vertically. This way the pop-up should be small enough to fit right above or below the candle you are hovering on.

For example:

From this:     To this:     

It is now less intrusive as it does not cover entire candles and it doesn't force you to look on the left. But anyways, i can get your point

Make the popups transparent.

BitShares CryptoeXchange (working name)

Please use this thread to discuss a worker proposal only. For other questions, check out https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,18602

BTSCX will provide a gateway for cryptocurrencies to a decentralized storage, backing assets tradable on the BTS network (comparable to NXT's SuperNET, but without static main nodes)

For a coin to be added there need to be at least three individuals, so called signers, who hold keys to multisig addresses to store coins and assets. Two of those keys are required for a transaction to get accepted in the blockchain. The signers watch each other and react to suspicious behaviour by locking out the malicious signer, and if possible replacing him.
A multisig address can be created with a variable number of signers and required signatures, so it can be raised per-coin when more individuals applied for signing and get voted in. The number of signers should be in some way proportional to the total deposited value for (obvious) security reasons.

When a coin is added (enough signers available + successful community vote), an asset representing that coin is issued by the signers (also multisig protected), which will be given out in return for deposited coins. The deposits are immediately sent to the multisig storage address.
Returning the asset to the issuer triggers a withdrawal of the respective amount of coins.

The gateway can sustain itself through fees taken from deposits and withdrawals.

The client will support adding new coins and applying as a signer for an added coin as well as voting, trading and community functions.
Like Graphene, the UI will be standalone and can work with remote BTSCX, BTS and coin nodes.
By connecting it to a local coin wallet it will support trading directly out of or into that wallet.

A control asset will be issued, which gives the community the possibility to vote on every variable that may be set, per coin.
Those variables are (list not necessarily complete):
- coins to add
- x-of-y multisig
- offline/dropout tolerance
- fees
- distribution of fees between asset holders, signers, and burning


80% of this asset will be given to the community, 20% will stay with me to be distributed amongst the people helping to create the gateway.

The team consists of 3 persons so far (2 coders, 1 designer). As a rough estimation it'll require about 6 months and at least 30k USD to develop a working product. This would only cover a very basic version though. Adding more features like a trollbox or margin trading will boost that up quite a bit, and if we want to include marketing and further development, even 300k USD could easily be spent in a year. There won't be a company in Switzerland though, promised!

I will create 6 worker proposals, amounting to 60k BTS/day each, running for three months (target: Nov/Dec/Jan). With this setup and current prices having all 6 voted in for 1 month, or 2 for three months, secures the minimum funding.  Donations of BTC, BTS and BitUSD will be accepted when the initial 30k USD target is met through those workers.
At the end of January 2016 the value in USD for everything that came in will be calculated, and 80% of the control asset will be given out proportionally, sharedropping the worker income's part on BTS accounts (details to be discussed with the community).

This should be built on top of Omni rather than on Bitshares.