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Messages - bitsharesbrazil

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136
Technical Support / Re: BitShares UI is a disaster.
« on: June 07, 2016, 02:05:01 pm »
He is probably zoomed in or zoomed out or something.
When I got to openledger from a old  computer I had to ctrl+  minus to adjust everything in place, maybe it is it

137
Moooooooooooooon

138
Technical Support / Re: BitShares UI is a disaster.
« on: June 07, 2016, 01:59:50 pm »
I cannot see any problems here

139
Quote
Quote
Paying a negative fee immediately from the buyer who pays a positive fee is nothing more than shifting the price.  It is a meaningless change.
Taker pays the fee to both maker and the network. It's more than shifting price because it encourages makers thus improving the liquidity.

Sometimes it helps me to imagine an extreme case to get a better feel for what is happening on the smaller scales.  So what follows is my own thought experiment.

Lets try the experiment with a 20% taker fee just to be outrageous.  Lets have the maker fee be -20%.    Under such a market, those who demand liquidity take a 20% loss and those who provide it get a 20% gain. The trader would view such a market similar to a market with a 20% spread. They would be hesitant to buy such an asset because they know they will take an instant 36% loss if they are the taker on both sides. (.8 in and .8 out).  This means that someone looking to get in-or-out of such a market with the least loss would have to be a maker for one of the two trades in which case they take a 4% loss (.8*1.2=.96).  Those who are willing to "wait" on both sides of the trade can profit by 44% (1.2*1.2).   Hence the negative maker fee encourages users to wait (which is the opposite of liquidity).  You create "lines" on both side of the order book of people who want to exit their position. I suspect you would see very narrow spreads with steep walls.  This market would have the appearance of good liquidity, but the underlying reality is that 'day traders' view it as a market with a 20% spread.

So in this extreme case the takers (aka traders) end up paying for their liquidity TODAY the same way they would pay for their liquidity without the 20/-20 maker/taker rule: via a large spread.  Market makers end up making the same profits they would if they had a 20% spread between their buy and sell walls. The only thing the negative maker fee is doing under this model is enforcing a minimal spread that makers can provide, in other words price-fixing the market maker fee.    Instead of market makers competing to reduce spread, they are competing to be the first in line of a "virtual" 0 spread.   Because no value is moving through time all this price fixing is doing is creating shortages (of takers) and gas lines (those waiting to exit on both sides of the book). 

So it is clear that if we set the maker/taker fees to be greater than the natural spreads that things break down.  Our real goal is to reduce spreads, not enforce a minimum spread with steep cliffs of liquidity on either side of that minimum spread.

So this means that we want to maximize maker rewards without increasing the cost to the taker.  So lets look at another extreme market:

1. Suppose that takers paid a 0.1% fee
2. Suppose that makers earned 20% bonus from someone else (ie: the network).

In this market there would be huge walls of liquidity as people compete to get a 44% return every time they turn over.  This 44% return completely eliminates almost all market volatility risk.  Traders/takers see an effective spread of just 0.1% which means they feel very comfortable buying the asset because they know they can turn around and sell it instantly with only a 0.2% loss.  Assuming there was no limit on the 20% bonus, then people would start trading against themselves.   Obviously you would have to mitigate this self trading by making the reward based upon how long the order was on the books before getting filled.  This is the situation we really want to create.

So the question becomes how do you compensate makers today without making todays traders (takers) pay for it.  My proposal has tomorrows takers pay today's makers by paying for market making today, but not tomorrow.

The proposal here says you give them 0.1% today + a cut of the net present value of all future fees.

The cost of providing liquidity on early on is much more expensive than the cost of providing the same liquidity in a mature market.
Under this model you gain more liquidity from makers early on (when it costs the most) without actually decreasing liquidity available in the future (when it costs less).  If you set the decay curve properly you can end up with "constant liquidity" equal to the average liquidity over the entire life of the market.  Over a long enough time horizon this means that you should get almost as much liquidity in year 1 as you do in year 30 if market makers believe in the future of a given market.u

So when people suggest "simple" rules they are not really getting the result they want.
now I understand why bytemaster was feedup n told a f######### you all.....people can not understand things that will.shift our game for for a couple. a few bucks......even tbis way bytemaster could have part of his job funded n with some expectations.for.the future if it grows.....

Hope bytemaster can rebuy all bts pretty n make a retun aka jobs

140
I GONNA MISS. You jqkub, but you gonna leave now? At the best of the party?

BITSHAREEEEEEEEEERRRRREEEEEESSSS

HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLD STROOOOOOOOOONG

141
Regards to liquidity rewards
can we.do it with LTM, lets say zero fees for trading for some time, plus you get part of the fees of normal people that are in the same trade? Isnt it more reasonable?

Normal people keep paying fees as is, so we.can sustain the network n maybe make a profit from it n market makers bring action n depth

Am I delusional, naive or it makes sense for someone?


142
Let me.see if i understand market maker provide.liquidity put orders on both sides, they would pay fees in a normal way, bu with steem mechanism the normal people would.pay an.additional value incorporated in his bid/ask so he can pay a small value to support the market maker? Is it?

143
Technical Support / Re: Open Ledger
« on: June 04, 2016, 07:10:47 pm »
Hi Fav she has done all that but does not make any difference, she has cleared all cookies etc changed browsers but still showing all the missing buttons
thank you for your reply
if you have any more suggestions I would be very grateful

Trying to help......do you have a backup? Could.you restore in another browser to see if it works?

144
Technical Support / Re: Bitshares and OpenLedger
« on: June 04, 2016, 06:59:55 pm »
From my worker thread:
I agree with Xeroc though that it would be great to have a video making clear the distinction between Bitshares and Openledger. And if it's paid by worker it would be best if the videos used either the light wallet or bitshares.org/wallet.

I've been commissioned to produce Bitshares-branded videos, which I think is the right choice. I'd like to be able to navigate to http://bitshares.org and click the Online Wallet button, demonstrating the link to the Bitshares wallet. It's clear that OpenLedger is a for-profit company, and it doesn't seem like a decentralized blockchain's website should be linking to the OL wallet as if they are the same brand.

Any thoughts?
you could ask to the big guys that are supporting your worker what hey think of.it.....in my opinion no problem to link to openledger they are very important here n if we can do anything to help them both will benefit

145
From.where come the money.for.LIQUIDITY REWARDS FROM STEEM? From fees? How does this work fully? Inthe white paper is not clear for me..... What do you guys, traders think of it?

146
Thanks for loving me I.LOVE YOU ALL
Even you....
Jakub :-*

Jus 2bts...
This forum.is.faaaaaaaaaar from dead......I verify a lot of.data n this forum is one of.the biggest in alt community, simple top...I domt want to get in details, but this.community is one of the.best, if not the best in crypto world
I really cannot believe that some of you dont have the notion of the size of.this sleeping giant, when this giant wake up cryptoworld will shake

147
HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLD


148
When we consolidate in a bull run we should thino bigger n have our price being mentined in coindesk, an active tread in bitcointalk, that brings a lot of attention, but its not a priority but sure should be part of a plan in the future.

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I.was taking a look at some data n openledger s slowing gaining some traction, lacks users feom russia, in the future i will try to do.something here, no community in brazil, a lot to get from here.

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Im very new here but I really liked the way work proposals works, treshold, vesting, etc.... Passionate about it, you cant.just be a worker/put food on.the tableyou have to be a believer, investor

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