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Messages - BTSdac

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226
General Discussion / Re: Fee Adjustments
« on: October 21, 2015, 01:44:55 pm »
Even if we can resolve this by just voting, the different perspectives shown in this thread work in people minds to enrich their decisions.

I do agree that we need to be profitable as a DAC and fees play an critical role.
I also don't have the scientific proof that if we lower the fees transfers will climb.

(Maybe there is no high amount of transfers because we are not ready (yet) for mainstream users, and bitcoiners don't like us much (yet) ) 

Having said that $0.2 USD transfer fees make some project unviable.

Im pushing Bitshares for a joint effort of two NGOs and the local crypto community which one the objectives is to provide entrepreneurs from marginal economies with a way to use digital cash. (Its a bigger project ex-Worldbank, ex-UN people working on it)
 
Basically they will be moving an IOU, but $3.2 ARS is too much for the average size of that transactions. ($30-$50)

One of the founders of http://www.rootstock.io/ is heavily involved in the project also, so that platform is on the table also even if its on alpha stage.

Another issue is the order placement fee in the DEX, but i read that with lifetime subscription the fees goes down to something like 2 BTS? So that will be fine to bootstrap the DEX.
I think the transfer is 4 times of trade fee ,it is unreasonable ,
user just transfer bts or IOU  several times  one months , they cannot to update life-time member ,  so they have to pay 0.2$ per transfer ,
it mean bts give up small amount  transfer , small amount transfer cannot bring bts much transfer fee ,but the can bring bts many user ,
user is very important thing .

227
Stakeholder Proposals / Re: Worker Proposal - Asset pool fee funding
« on: October 21, 2015, 09:19:24 am »
Dear community,

As the pool fees for USD, CNY, EUR, GOLD, SILVER are constantly empty, we've seen suggestions on the forum to create a worker proposal to constantly re-fill them. It's no solution that random community members refill these pools out of their own money.

The web wallet should be updated so support fee paying in BTS if the pool fund is empty, but it is not implemented yet.

My Proposal

  • Provide funding for fee pool funding for USD and CNY: 4000 BTS daily
  • Provide funding for fee pool funding for EUR, SILVER and GOLD: 2000 BTS daily
  • Total worker proposal funding: 300000 BTS
  • Total length of worker contract: 30 days
  • Vesting: 0 days, since we need fill the pool funds immediately
  • Create open source script that automatically funds a fee pool when it is empty: 10% of the total amount

The worker contract will start on October 23 00:00 GMT and will End on November 23 00:00. Funding is provided for a total of 27 days. The script will be published on github before Sunday.

Please vote for my worker mindphlux-bitasset-poolfund

Thank you for bitcube and fav that helped to come up and create this proposal.

Regards,
mindphlux
Excuse me less information  about feel pool ?
feel pool for one UIA (like CNY) is the BTS restored in a pool to supply fee for CNY transfer ?
expect charge BTS in fee pool , sender should pay UIA(like CNY) as extra fee ?

228
please use simple words to explain this ,
I think original intention is to make many people use this ,because there need market deep .
but I think less people can make it clear

and now in message board of btc38.com ,there are a little rumour that committee change parameter cause many people been margin .
to my understand , it is not trust , but I don`t know the details
I try to understand it ,
1.SQP is the initially collateral , that is minimum initially collateral when people borrow BTA ? 
2.
Margin is called any time the HIGH BID is less than the CALL PRICE.    In other words anytime the highest offer to buy the collateral and pay off the debt is below the call price.
HIGH in above sentence is in BTS/BITUSD  or BITUSD/BTS?
BM can you explain the details ?

229
General Discussion / Re: Fee Adjustments
« on: October 21, 2015, 02:11:06 am »
I basically do not oppose pay fee to Tx, not only protect network ,  but more important system should been a healthy that can gain enough money to supply high level service .
but we would consider how high fee can get more .
There is a relationship between fee and number of Tx

Vertical axis is number of Tx , and the horizontal axis is fee , so the area is the how many total fee (include referral program income ) system gain.
the left drawing show , charge high fee ,but a small number of Tx, so the income of system is small
the middle drawing show charge low fee , there a big number of Tx , but the income is also small
the right drawing show charge fit fee ,and the number of TX is a little lower than system capacity ( bts design is 100,000TPS ) , system get Max income

what position we are , I think is left drawing .


230
General Discussion / Re: Fee Adjustments
« on: October 20, 2015, 05:41:46 pm »
Percent based fees are slightly more complex to implement universally, especially with user issued assets for which the network has no idea what the value being transferred is.
I think we should reduce the fee,
there is no base to charge high fee now,
bts system has small. please do not compare with paypal
usd in paypal can buy most of goods in word
but what bitusd can do? buy goods? how many glad to accept bitusd
I doubt me now!
bm please make community choice how many fee,
please do not try to control bts
it would harm community and bts and aslo include you.

let btser select how high fee. byvoting

231
General Discussion / Re: Fee Adjustments
« on: October 20, 2015, 05:17:11 pm »
reduce fee!

232
expect TITAN  , export TITAN, what is other anonymous technology?, what are they detail?

233
bts0.9.3中没有同步扫描完的账户,2.0中无法得到balance怎么办?
不需要扫描完
只需要扫描到你最后一次交易就行了
只要你在bts1.0中显示的余额正确就行了

234
General Discussion / Re: Poloniex proved its balance
« on: October 17, 2015, 05:55:02 pm »
I feel so confounded that ,
it is very difficult to prove anything
transparent. is very good thing we long
but I want to say,
BTS is not a special coin in exchange sight  I think
so Poloiex  don`t have any special duty to make BTS more transparent than other


235
Stakeholder Proposals / Re: Lets vote for lower fees!
« on: October 17, 2015, 02:48:18 pm »
low fee for transfer and trading, others can higher, especially the register fee
low fee for transfer and trading, others can higher, especially the register fee
high trading fee increase cost of market maker,
but market maker can become life time member to reduce fee by 80%
and register is a basic service for user , so also should been low fee
bond fee can high ,because boud participant is highrisk participant, they can get/lose more , so they do net care fee!

236
General Discussion / Re: we should focus on simple business
« on: October 17, 2015, 01:17:55 pm »
the big reason is that simple thing or complicated thing ,


237
Stakeholder Proposals / Re: Lets vote for lower fees!
« on: October 17, 2015, 01:03:37 pm »
I disagree with reducing fees for two main reasons:

1) It makes the referral program a lot less interesting if you dont expect the users you bring in to generate much of any fees.  So then it will fail.

2) A big reason why the BTS price has been trending down for a year is that the supply is increasing, that is, the blockchain is operating at a loss instead of being profitable.  As soon as we can demonstrate a blockchain making a profit over a reasonable period of time, even a small profit, it will attract a lot of attention.  Everyone is used to inflating blockchains that hemmorhage money (through PoW or whatever), but if you change that around and are actually making a profit, then a lot of investors will want to jump on board.  And helping the price break its downtrend is going to help adopting a LOT, because a major inhibitor to adoption right now is that everyone who buys in loses money and gets disillusioned.



Enough fees to turn a profit is the savior of BTS.

The fees for subscribers being 2 cents instead of .5 cent is not going to significantly impact our adoption.

The reason the price dropped is beacuse a bunch of peopel who had bought BTS prior to release but dont actually care about it long term all dumped it.  That had nothing at all to do with what the fee is.


I strongly encourage everyone to vote against lowering the fee.
Disagree with you
1. I do not oppose referral program, but there is no conflict between referral program and low transfer fee,  I don`t understand why transfer is higher than exchange fee , 
also there are different fee ( transfer fee, exchange ), is it reasonable , why transfer is 20BTS but exchang fee is any 5bts.  and I think transfer should been lower than exchange fee
about fee I have some thinking
transfer fee : transfer is an equal in value  of input and output ,  it is also a basic service supply by bts network ,  so it should pay the lowest fee
exchange fee : exchange is not an equal in value of input and output ,  people exchange would lost/get profit. in other words ,the purpose of exchange is to get profit, so most of them ignore the fee, because they can get hundreds of times profit than fee ,if they buy/sell at right price .   in other , exchange is a higher service than transfer, I think,  so the fee is higher than transfer fee is reasonable
borrow/close  fee :  because it is leverage trading, people would lost/get more profit , so the fee should higher than exchange fee
so I think the fee should   transfer fee <exchange fee<borrow/close  fee

bond exchange would charge higher fee , it can support referral program.
2. the big reason why price has been trending down for a year is not the supply increasing , people can accept supply increasing but cannot accept supply increasing unreasonably , eg, Max supply change , the biggest harm is Max supply from 2B to 3.7B, it is old thing  but now we restart now.
the reason of  price trending is not the sell of increased bts , it is influence of supply increasing . also the bad thing is not higher fee , it is influence of high fee .
 I believe bts is a system that can get profit in furniture, I don`t think bts make profit now is a good thing,  a  successful business cannot get profit when it most but have profit perspective.
if bts charge high fee ,it would block people join bts.

238
General Discussion / Do we reduce the transfer fee
« on: October 17, 2015, 12:28:50 pm »
BTS2.0 is good enough so far, but a lot of people think the fee is a little high.
about fee I have some thinking
transfer fee : transfer is an equal in value  of input and output ,  it is also a basic service supply by bts network ,  so it should pay the lowest fee
exchange fee : exchange is not an equal in value of input and output ,  people exchange would lost/get profit. in other words ,the purpose of exchange is to get profit, so most of them ignore the fee, because they can get hundreds of times profit than fee ,if they buy/sell at right price .   in other , exchange is a higher service than transfer, I think,  so the fee is higher than transfer fee is reasonable
borrow/close  fee :  because it is leverage trading, people would lost/get more profit , so the fee should higher than exchange fee

so I think the fee should   transfer fee <exchange fee<borrow/close  fee

additional :
I do not oppose referral program?  but referral program does not mean increase transfer fee.  opposite exchange fee may is the most of income of  referral program

239
Current released witness_node.exe cannot sync,chain is blocked at#91074 ,
but
I have compiled witness_node.exe with newest code , can sync

http://pan.baidu.com/s/1kTtSvqR

240
I've seen lots of "hooray referral system" posts like it's the new cure for cancer.  I have the exact opposite thoughts about it.  Before any pro-referral people post in opposition, let's define exactly what the referral system is.  It's an artificial increase in transaction fees to subsidize the equivalent of a bunch of Avon ladies. 

Artificially increasing transaction fees is the last thing you would ever want to do in a cryptocurrency.  One of Bitcoin's main selling points was low transaction fees.  Now people are suddenly pretending like transaction fees don't matter.  Sure, you may now end up with some additional people trying to spread Bitshares, but most people view cryptocurrency as a zero sum game where the act of using it is just making someone else rich at their own expense.  This isn't far from the truth since any currency that exists whether it's fiat, gold, or crypto is all a pyramid scheme in nature.

Dan talks about how he doesn't like coercion, but the referral system obviously is where you're trying to swoop up people under your influence into a system to enrich yourself.  An example would be an employer forcing employees into Bitshares as a payment processor.  The employee now has to pay some arbitrary fee to become "a member" or pay large transaction fees instead.  Currency doesn't need any more pyramid scheme aspects than it already has.  Besides the fact that it's philosophically an abomination, it makes Bitshares less competitive in the free market vs other coins that will have lower fees.

Unless Bitshares became huge, it's not like many people are even going to pay the member fee anyway.  It just drives people to other coins due to big transaction fees.  If Bitshares became world reserve currency, probably everyone on earth would pay it, but the only function it serves then is an additional pyramid scheme aspect on top of the already pyramid nature of all currencies.   Whether you're trying to make a profitable business or a more "fair" world, it's probably bad on both fronts.
I think  referral system is not bad , but  the translation fee should decrease , it is too difficult to understand  send fee is 20 bts , but exhcang fee is only 5BTS,
I think the fee should  send fee < exchange fee 

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