VOTE DAC Just Got More Interesting 2.0

[Rune]

New DACs give additional funding to the ecosystem.  People who have been here from earlier days may not have as much of an interest in BTSX as people new.  IMO Voting DAC is basically the same as the KeyID DAC, so there will be even more value in terms of potential dev money.

I'm much happier seeing I3/whoever diversify outside BitsharesX.  To not lay groundwork elsewhere would be foolish.   We get better strategic positioning via first mover type stuff.  We get more funding to help the ecosystem as a whole.  We benefit.

There is no first mover advantage without a userbase. Having an empty DAC will give no advantage at all. An established network with active users will come along and take whatever innovations they can for their own blockchain to use. Also how long do you think it will be possible to get funding out of the same small group of people?

There is no first mover advantage without a userbase?  That is how it works ?  So if someone else created a far superior Namecoin without any users, they wouldn't have an advantage ?    KeyID/DNS doesn't even necessarily overlap much with the people who are interested in BTSX.

People will use the products due to value they perceive in using it. Your account is quite new so I assume you see everything in BTSX tinted glasses.  Ok... I get it.

Metcalfes law. Namecoin is currently 100% useless precisely because no one uses it. OB might change that, but a better version of Namecoin coming along would not be able to piggyback off that in any way, and would thus be as useless as Namecoin currently is.

The only way to attract new users en masse "out of nowhere" is through monetary incentive, and that is why currently BTSX IS bitshares, as it is the only bitshares DAC with the potential to attract users. Once btsx gains a network, then the other DACs might actually benefit from it and the greater ecosystem can be established and grow. Without btsx growth, there will be nothing.

[nomoreheroes7]

  to everything Rune has posted. You need the initial network effect before you can start focusing on taking over other industries. Think Google: did search engines amazingly well, earned network effect because of it, then began to take over every other industry they possibly could.

Timing is important, and the BTSX first-mover hype engine is already rapidly decelerating.

[Rune]

It's interesting over the past weeks to hear everybody saying

"Gee, I hope there a Plan B for Marketing this stuff."

Apparently there are those who wouldn't recognize a Plan B if it sneaked up and bit them in the assets.

With all due respect this seems like a terrible way to market btsx. I can't think of any consumers who are craving decentralized voting to the extent that they will actively seek it out themselves, or let it go viral in any way. It seems like something that itself needs a gargantuan marketing budget to tell people and organizations why they actually need it.

[gamey]

New DACs give additional funding to the ecosystem.  People who have been here from earlier days may not have as much of an interest in BTSX as people new.  IMO Voting DAC is basically the same as the KeyID DAC, so there will be even more value in terms of potential dev money.

I'm much happier seeing I3/whoever diversify outside BitsharesX.  To not lay groundwork elsewhere would be foolish.   We get better strategic positioning via first mover type stuff.  We get more funding to help the ecosystem as a whole.  We benefit.

There is no first mover advantage without a userbase. Having an empty DAC will give no advantage at all. An established network with active users will come along and take whatever innovations they can for their own blockchain to use. Also how long do you think it will be possible to get funding out of the same small group of people?

There is no first mover advantage without a userbase?  That is how it works ?  So if someone else created a far superior Namecoin without any users, they wouldn't have an advantage ?    KeyID/DNS doesn't even necessarily overlap much with the people who are interested in BTSX.

People will use the products due to value they perceive in using it. Your account is quite new so I assume you see everything in BTSX tinted glasses.  Ok... I get it.

[Stan]

It's interesting over the past weeks to hear everybody saying

"Gee, I hope there a Plan B for Marketing this stuff."

Apparently there are those who wouldn't recognize a Plan B if it sneaked up and bit them in the assets.

[Rune]

New DACs give additional funding to the ecosystem.  People who have been here from earlier days may not have as much of an interest in BTSX as people new.  IMO Voting DAC is basically the same as the KeyID DAC, so there will be even more value in terms of potential dev money.

I'm much happier seeing I3/whoever diversify outside BitsharesX.  To not lay groundwork elsewhere would be foolish.   We get better strategic positioning via first mover type stuff.  We get more funding to help the ecosystem as a whole.  We benefit.

There is no first mover advantage without a userbase. Having an empty DAC will give no advantage at all. An established network with active users will come along and take whatever innovations they can for their own blockchain to use. Also how long do you think it will be possible to get funding out of the same small group of people?

[Rune]

The vote DAC being as big as btsx means nothing, because currently btsx is nothing. It has no actual users, only Chinese speculators and western true believers.

BTSX has the potential to become what everyone has thought bitcoin would become, the system that liberates mankind. But that will only happen if it is made to happen, and currently there are some crucial pieces missing before it will be ready for lift off.

I realize that dan and the team have already done a tremendous lot, but if they finish what they started they will earn the right to rest for the rest of their lives. Right now is really not the time to rest.

Simply put I do not have enough pluses to state how much I agree with that!

 
                     
                                           

PS
And by the way, there is NOTHING, not a single thing!, that can be  AS BIG AS BTSX,  if BTSX reaches its full potential that is...

You need to think BIGGER, Pinky. 

Means of payment and store of value is the biggest potential use case for decentralized systems, and the only with a functional implementation. The btsx community is also the funnel that will bring users to other bitshares DACs. The only potential userbase for a voting DAC will be btsx users. I promise you that it will be impossible to sell the concept to anyone who don't already get btsx enough to invest in it.

Btsx must get off the ground before it makes sense to build any other DAC. You build things from the bottom, in this case thinking big just means losing perspective and getting overtaken by others that focus on doing a few things well.

That being said, I see no issue with rapidly creating more value by spring boarding many new DACs off the network effect of btsx, as soon as there is one. But currently there is none

[Stan]

Btsx is not being abandoned.  This project is designed to fund common infrastructure via dilution.   My job is to lead not code.   And btsx is dac suns job to maintain upgrade and bug fix as I improve the toolkit. 

Btsx is hamstrung with a fixed dev budget that will take time to grow. 

Anyway, btsx will thrive and grow in parallel.

in Parallel?

Please, please, please!

Let's finish the new earth... before building the new solar system...

When Mercury-Atlas manned orbital missions were blasting off from Launch Complex 14

In parallel Gemini-Titan II two man missions were being prepared for Launch Complex 19

In parallel we were preparing Apollo-Saturn launch facilities at Launch Complex 39

This is a fast-break offense.

[tonyk]

The vote DAC being as big as btsx means nothing, because currently btsx is nothing. It has no actual users, only Chinese speculators and western true believers.

BTSX has the potential to become what everyone has thought bitcoin would become, the system that liberates mankind. But that will only happen if it is made to happen, and currently there are some crucial pieces missing before it will be ready for lift off.

I realize that dan and the team have already done a tremendous lot, but if they finish what they started they will earn the right to rest for the rest of their lives. Right now is really not the time to rest.

Simply put I do not have enough pluses to state how much I agree with that!

 
                     
                                           

PS
And by the way, there is NOTHING, not a single thing!, that can be  AS BIG AS BTSX,  if BTSX reaches its full potential that is...

You need to think BIGGER, Pinky. 

"tonyk, What happened to this project of yours, from couple of years  ago, that you liked so much, and even thought it's going to change the world?"

" Yee, nothing.... the voting DAC just got more interesting... at the wrong time."

@Stan I have thought big all my life, Stan. This time I prefer to limit myself something much smaller, like 10 Trillion Market cap on BTSX...

[gamey]

New DACs give additional funding to the ecosystem.  People who have been here from earlier days may not have as much of an interest in BTSX as people new.  IMO Voting DAC is basically the same as the KeyID DAC, so there will be even more value in terms of potential dev money.

I'm much happier seeing I3/whoever diversify outside BitsharesX.  To not lay groundwork elsewhere would be foolish.   We get better strategic positioning via first mover type stuff.  We get more funding to help the ecosystem as a whole.  We benefit.

[Stan]

The vote DAC being as big as btsx means nothing, because currently btsx is nothing. It has no actual users, only Chinese speculators and western true believers.

BTSX has the potential to become what everyone has thought bitcoin would become, the system that liberates mankind. But that will only happen if it is made to happen, and currently there are some crucial pieces missing before it will be ready for lift off.

I realize that dan and the team have already done a tremendous lot, but if they finish what they started they will earn the right to rest for the rest of their lives. Right now is really not the time to rest.

Simply put I do not have enough pluses to state how much I agree with that!

 
                     
                                           

PS
And by the way, there is NOTHING, not a single thing!, that can be  AS BIG AS BTSX,  if BTSX reaches its full potential that is...

You need to think BIGGER, Pinky. 

[Rune]

Btsx is not being abandoned.  This project is designed to fund common infrastructure via dilution.   My job is to lead not code.   And btsx is dac suns job to maintain upgrade and bug fix as I improve the toolkit. 

Btsx is hamstrung with a fixed dev budget that will take time to grow. 

Anyway, btsx will thrive and grow in parallel.

Then the right thing to do is to inflate btsx to fund development. Sure, your job is to lead. But you also lead the community, and the speculators. When they catch on that you are not focusing on getting the first and most important project off the ground then many will divest. Btsx is the DAC that determines the fate of all other bitshares DACs.

[Empirical1.1]

Bitsharesx is not even close to being a finished or useable product and the core developer focus now goes to a new project?

I think you are a wise man... I also doubt anybody will listen...

I think BitSharesX is amazing & looking pretty good especially after the next update where shorts compete on yield. BM has said he thinks this DAC could be as big as BTSX and Stan has said there may be some synergy between the two. Personally I'd probably recommend BM takes a bit of a break because I can't imagine all the work and time he must have put into BTSX in the last few months. However if he's passionate about getting stuck into another project that will probably also benefit BTSX, I say thanks and good luck!

But btsx is not useable. There's no mobile wallet, there's no ability to integrate it with a POS system. Shorts paying interest is not going to add any value on its own, it will only make a difference if there is a reason to either buy bitUSD or go long btsx and currently there is no such reason. There must be trade inside the system for it to create any value.

The vote DAC being as big as btsx means nothing, because currently btsx is nothing. It has no actual users, only Chinese speculators and western true believers.

BTSX has the potential to become what everyone has thought bitcoin would become, the system that liberates mankind. But that will only happen if it is made to happen, and currently there are some crucial pieces missing before it will be ready for lift off.

I realize that dan and the team have already done a tremendous lot, but if they finish what they started they will earn the right to rest for the rest of their lives. Right now is really not the time to rest.

Oh yeah, I believe all of those things you mentioned are happening & I presume BM will be as involved as he needs to be. Again as I said in another thread, BM came up with BTSX, he knows how big it can be & he's put loads into it to make it a reality from just an idea. If he's working on something else, I'm sure he's confident he can handle both & that there are reasons for it.

Dan is incredibly smart but that doesn't mean he cannot make mistakes. In this case starting a new project is a huge mistake. Btsx doesn't even have a mobile wallet or the capability for pos integration. Every single cent of the current market cap is entirely speculative, all based on future expectations. There is not a single actual user. If those expectations fail to appear in a reasonable timeframe, the entire market cap will evaporate. If it turns out that the main person behind the entire thing now has his heart set on other things then patience will turn to panic. Btsx will die, and every other bitshares DAC will die alongside it.

Saying "I'm sure [...] there are reasons for it" literally means that you are unable to think of any reasons for it.

The CAP is not entirely speculative. BitAssets work, the peg works. I am a user, I own BitAssets.
If the banks collapsed tomorrow my BitAssets would still be fine without all the add-ons. So there is a lot of genuine value included in the current CAP.

I also often react to things and write and will continue to write my fair share of 'The sky is falling down' posts but the sky is not falling down, every single cent of it is not speculative, every single BitShares DAC will not die... 

As for the reasons, yes you're right I'm not clear what they are, as not all has been revealed yet (& I'll probably disagree with some of them when they are) It took about 6 months but I have a lot of confidence in BM and so I don't always need to know all the details to be very comfortable about my position.

 

[tonyk]

Btsx is not being abandoned.  This project is designed to fund common infrastructure via dilution.   My job is to lead not code.   And btsx is dac suns job to maintain upgrade and bug fix as I improve the toolkit. 

Btsx is hamstrung with a fixed dev budget that will take time to grow. 

Anyway, btsx will thrive and grow in parallel.

in Parallel?

Please, please, please!

Let's finish the new earth... before building the new solar system...

[bytemaster]

Btsx is not being abandoned.  This project is designed to fund common infrastructure via dilution.   My job is to lead not code.   And btsx is dac suns job to maintain upgrade and bug fix as I improve the toolkit. 

Btsx is hamstrung with a fixed dev budget that will take time to grow. 

Anyway, btsx will thrive and grow in parallel.