Bter hacked. PTS, bitassets withdrawal successful. Share you experience.

[merlin0113]

Updates from @btercom:

CNY and USD withdrawals will be enabled first in these days and the crypto-coins (NXT etc)will be handled later when we make sure it's safe.

We are seeking all ways to compensate our users including selling http://BTER.com  (Debits & funds not included): admin@mail.bter.com

Seems that the BTER funders are wiling to litterally give away the business and all assets including domain name to the bidder who will give the best indemnisation to victims of the hack. It means that we should be able to do a partial bailout and still get to take over the BTER brand.

I have a new proposal. I'll develop more on that later, but here is the outline:
We create a bailout fund that will be funded by N delegates. Each time the fund receives delegate payments, it bugs bitBTC and airdrops it to BTER users who registered on Bitshares prorata of their lost BTC holding. This is litterally a vested bail out fund but the vesting schedule is dynamic and adjust with the BTS exchange rate.

No delegates. 

I do not support delegates because this forces people who are obviously against this idea to pay for something they hate.  I do not want to trade a user base over at BTER (who might simply bail and go to a competitor after they regain access to their funds) for an already loyal COMMUNITY here.  This is where you have lost me. 

Let people buy in if they want to.  Get contact with BTER, I'll reach out and help you, but you lose my support as soon as you try to get delegates voted in for this.

I think to reach a full consensus is impossible, and you are just a one among many. So stop using this ruling tongue.
IMO, it's not a good idea or at least too bold to buyout bter at the moment. Maybe we should try to persuade bter to be a BTS gateway and by the guarantee them to be a major recognized and supported gateway of our community, ok, maybe coupled with a small check to help them.
Being a gateway won't affect much when they unfortunately get hacked again.
Since this is supposed to be beneficial to the community, so I doubt if this small check should go to the ones making this happen instead of the whole commuity(diluted delegate pay) or I3(AGS fund).

[fluxer555]

No delegates. 

[fuzzy]

Updates from @btercom:

CNY and USD withdrawals will be enabled first in these days and the crypto-coins (NXT etc)will be handled later when we make sure it's safe.

We are seeking all ways to compensate our users including selling http://BTER.com  (Debits & funds not included): admin@mail.bter.com

Seems that the BTER funders are wiling to litterally give away the business and all assets including domain name to the bidder who will give the best indemnisation to victims of the hack. It means that we should be able to do a partial bailout and still get to take over the BTER brand.

I have a new proposal. I'll develop more on that later, but here is the outline:
We create a bailout fund that will be funded by N delegates. Each time the fund receives delegate payments, it bugs bitBTC and airdrops it to BTER users who registered on Bitshares prorata of their lost BTC holding. This is litterally a vested bail out fund but the vesting schedule is dynamic and adjust with the BTS exchange rate.

No delegates. 

I do not support delegates because this forces people who are obviously against this idea to pay for something they hate.  I do not want to trade a user base over at BTER (who might simply bail and go to a competitor after they regain access to their funds) for an already loyal COMMUNITY here.  This is where you have lost me. 

Let people buy in if they want to.  Get contact with BTER, I'll reach out and help you, but you lose my support as soon as you try to get delegates voted in for this. 

[klosure]

Updates from @btercom:

CNY and USD withdrawals will be enabled first in these days and the crypto-coins (NXT etc)will be handled later when we make sure it's safe.

We are seeking all ways to compensate our users including selling http://BTER.com  (Debits & funds not included): admin@mail.bter.com

Seems that the BTER funders are wiling to litterally give away the business and all assets including domain name to the bidder who will give the best indemnisation to victims of the hack. It means that we should be able to do a partial bailout and still get to take over the BTER brand.

I have a new proposal. I'll develop more on that later, but here is the outline:
We create a bailout fund that will be funded by N delegates. Each time the fund receives delegate payments, it bugs bitBTC and airdrops it to BTER users who registered on Bitshares prorata of their lost BTC holding. This is litterally a vested bail out fund but the vesting schedule is dynamic and adjust with the BTS exchange rate.

[clayop]

Buying bter is useless IMHO, because they already fail protecting their security and lost users' loyalty.

[Helikopterben]

@fuzzy @klosure

Why not buy out poloniex?  At least they are solvent (although they have been hacked before) and we could compete directly with nxt on their own gateway.  It seems like that would be better bang for the buck.  Why was there no discussion of buying out bter before they lost all customer funds?

[klosure]

According bytemasters blog, being a gateway is safer being a exchange, and profitable meantime. If our community don't do something, i.e. 1. community members set up a gateway of our own; 2. commubity members lobby other ppl to set up one, then bytemaster'blog post will be meaningless, perhaps to outsiders like a JOKE.

Creating a new BTS-centric gateway won't have at all the same effect as steering progressively an existing generalist exchange to a more BTS and BitAsset centric paradigm. A new gateway will only attract existing BitShares users and do nothing to increase our userbase and demand. Fuzzy's exemple of Poloniex for NXT is spot on but it would be even better with a Bitshares owned BTER because the user base is huge and BitShares allows to withdraw and deposit fiat as BitAssets. Basically BitAssets could become the preferred method of depositing and withdrawing cash to/from BTER in the long run and could even become a widespread inter-exchange settlement network if other exchanges follow suit.

Buying out an established exchange user base is a rare opportunity to expand massively our user base. No matter how you look at it there is no other fast and guaranteed route to widespread adoption of Bitshares than that. Yes we could keep doing the same and hope to organically grow by convicing one new user at a time but this could take a very long time and in this highly competitive environment time is not our allied.

[clayop]

According bytemasters blog, being a gateway is safer being a exchange, and profitable meantime. If our community don't do something, i.e. 1. community members set up a gateway of our own; 2. commubity members lobby other ppl to set up one, then bytemaster'blog post will be meaningless, perhaps to outsiders like a JOKE.

Agreed. So I'm preparing it now

[merlin0113]

As for a "bailout"/"buyout" I have no clue why people even care what others choose to do. 

My first thought was "bailout delegate" when I saw the title of the thread "community members discuss buyout", so that put me on edge.  I don't care what others do.  If they want to crowdfund a bailout, so be it.  I won't participate.

I think what Klosure has meant by this entire thing is that we wouldn't really be bailing out BTER.  We would be essentially buying a userbase who is scared and concerned that BTER has lost all their funds (again).  This would be an opportunity to come in, buyout the distressed business on the cheap, bailing out the people who are holding funds there (thus buying a loyal user-base).  We could easily turn it into a Gateway at this point, slightly change some of the incentive structures to favor trading with BTS/bitAsset pairings. 

I am not sure if you guys have paid much attention, but it seems like poloniex is highly leveraged into NXT and it is a big bonus for all their projects because it almost guarantees instant liquidity.  A coordinated buyout of BTER could be a strategically invaluable move.  However, for me to have any part in it, I personally would expect so much that the leadership likely prefer to watch it crash and burn than take the deal...because I would want it to turn almost exclusively into a BitShares gateway to the degree that Poloniex is for NXT. 

I'd also want a token issued that is backed by some % of trading fees, that is issued to people who successfully hack BTER as a bounty that can then be redeemed for something like bitUSD.   

I personally do not think BTER is going to make it through this time though.

According bytemasters blog, being a gateway is safer being a exchange, and profitable meantime. If our community don't do something, i.e. 1. community members set up a gateway of our own; 2. commubity members lobby other ppl to set up one, then bytemaster'blog post will be meaningless, perhaps to outsiders like a JOKE.

[fuzzy]

As for a "bailout"/"buyout" I have no clue why people even care what others choose to do. 

My first thought was "bailout delegate" when I saw the title of the thread "community members discuss buyout", so that put me on edge.  I don't care what others do.  If they want to crowdfund a bailout, so be it.  I won't participate.

I think what Klosure has meant by this entire thing is that we wouldn't really be bailing out BTER.  We would be essentially buying a userbase who is scared and concerned that BTER has lost all their funds (again).  This would be an opportunity to come in, buyout the distressed business on the cheap, bailing out the people who are holding funds there (thus buying a loyal user-base).  We could easily turn it into a Gateway at this point, slightly change some of the incentive structures to favor trading with BTS/bitAsset pairings. 

I am not sure if you guys have paid much attention, but it seems like poloniex is highly leveraged into NXT and it is a big bonus for all their projects because it almost guarantees instant liquidity.  A coordinated buyout of BTER could be a strategically invaluable move.  However, for me to have any part in it, I personally would expect so much that the leadership likely prefer to watch it crash and burn than take the deal...because I would want it to turn almost exclusively into a BitShares gateway to the degree that Poloniex is for NXT. 

I'd also want a token issued that is backed by some % of trading fees, that is issued to people who successfully hack BTER as a bounty that can then be redeemed for something like bitUSD.   

I personally do not think BTER is going to make it through this time though. 

[sumantso]

Updates from @btercom:

CNY and USD withdrawals will be enabled first in these days and the crypto-coins (NXT etc)will be handled later when we make sure it's safe.

We are seeking all ways to compensate our users including selling http://BTER.com  (Debits & funds not included): admin@mail.bter.com

If they are selling it off, what happens to the snapshots and vested balances? I hope BM or someone is in communication with them.

[Helikopterben]

As for a "bailout"/"buyout" I have no clue why people even care what others choose to do. 

My first thought was "bailout delegate" when I saw the title of the thread "community members discuss buyout", so that put me on edge.  I don't care what others do.  If they want to crowdfund a bailout, so be it.  I won't participate.

[merlin0113]

The www.bter.com page has been updated now with links to their twitter/weibo status updates where they provide no updates... Ok I'm getting impatient now, this is taking much longer than I anticipated.

They have several updates on weibo 2hrs ago.

I didn't see any updates worth anything for people interested in this though. 

As for a "bailout"/"buyout" I have no clue why people even care what others choose to do.  To be honest, to Klosure I say you reach out to BTER and see what they think about the idea.  After this, I personally have no funds available for actually helping to buy them out, but some people might find it a very valuable idea.  Heck we might even see people from other cryptocurrency communities download the BTS wallet just to participate in the crowdsale!

If it means getting BTER recapitalized enough to continue business long enough to break even, then maybe it is worth it.  Not that it matters though!.  If people don't want to invest, they won't invest!  If they do want to take that risk, then they will.  This thread is now becoming a bit of a sideshow imho...so this is my last post on it and I hope we will all consider spending out time doing something more productive.

  crowd fund to help them get on with their feet and to lose another 7K BTC again ? I don't know ....

I didn't ask you to pay for it.  I simply stated that there are people who seem interested, so they should consider trying it. 

Is it safer being a GATEWAY than being a exchange? There are chances indeed, maybe not a buyout but something we could do!

[fuzzy]

The www.bter.com page has been updated now with links to their twitter/weibo status updates where they provide no updates... Ok I'm getting impatient now, this is taking much longer than I anticipated.

They have several updates on weibo 2hrs ago.

I didn't see any updates worth anything for people interested in this though. 

As for a "bailout"/"buyout" I have no clue why people even care what others choose to do.  To be honest, to Klosure I say you reach out to BTER and see what they think about the idea.  After this, I personally have no funds available for actually helping to buy them out, but some people might find it a very valuable idea.  Heck we might even see people from other cryptocurrency communities download the BTS wallet just to participate in the crowdsale!

If it means getting BTER recapitalized enough to continue business long enough to break even, then maybe it is worth it.  Not that it matters though!.  If people don't want to invest, they won't invest!  If they do want to take that risk, then they will.  This thread is now becoming a bit of a sideshow imho...so this is my last post on it and I hope we will all consider spending out time doing something more productive.

  crowd fund to help them get on with their feet and to lose another 7K BTC again ? I don't know ....

I didn't ask you to pay for it.  I simply stated that there are people who seem interested, so they should consider trying it. 

[Riverhead]

It is good to see they are still updating the site. Hopefully we'll see a return of BTS and related assets soon.