Bitshares price discussion

[EstefanTT]

You forget that smartcoins uses collateral in BTS. The need for stable crypto asset will rise and these markets will grow.
BlockPay will probably help with that.
Each BitUSD is 2$ locked in BTS.
One million BitUSD in circulation means 2 millions $ in BTS bought. How much do you think the bts price would increase with ppl buying for 2 million $ of BTS ?

The plateform is perfect for creating all kind of index, baskets, ... which will also contribute at locking more collateral.

With a good commercialisation, I'm conffident that bittwenty could bring signigicant value to BTS.

The referral system may also take off later when we reach critical mass. That will also bring more fees.

Stealth transfers will also bring more fee to the system.

The other features still to be implemented ( as the bond market ) will also produce lots of fees.

There is also the unknows. Anytime, a new company can implement itself on top of BitShares and develop a new feature using the FBA.

IMO, your view on the BTS potential is too pessimistic.



Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

So here is the problem... You need to find people willing to create bitUSD.  No one has figured it out yet.  The only reason to do that would be that you think the value of BTS will rise vs bitUSD.  If BTS guaranteed you part of the profits, the value of BTS would go up.  This is how stocks work, the value generally increases as the companies profits increase.

Unfortunately there is no real plan to make BTS profitable.  The governance is poor and decisions on fee's are often deadlocked.  A lot of what you have in your post would be great to have (bond market, stealth, referral system) but the referral system was killed and the bond market is barely and idea in someones head.  I know blockpay is working on stealth, but they are going to be the ones reaping the fee rewards.  Exactly why I'm saying it's the companies who use the BTS platform that will get rich.  Not the BTS shareholders.  BTS shareholders are basically securing the companies blockchain transactions for free.  Not a profitable business model.

I'm not saying the potential of the BTS platform is bleak.  I'm saying if you are a BTS shareholder, the potential of the token value increasing is bleak.

Surely, all other things being equal, if there is more real-world usage of the platform (which also means people are trading/spending/hodling smartcoins), there has to be more collateral locked up, which means a higher BTS/FIAT price.

To the best of my present understanding, the above is irrefutable.

If so, we need to think what sort of initiatives can bring a wider range of users into the system.

I have some ideas, but don't see any of them taking off until we have STEALTH - it could be my bias, though, but me personally, I'm not going to be paying for anything with Smartcoins that's tied to anything in my name, that's a tool of oppression and not a tool of liberation.

As for bringing more traders in, I have a really hard time believing the platform will be attractive without, at least, stop-loss orders.

Stop-profit would also be nice.

I think those two are severely under-rated as a reason for serious traders avoiding bitshares right now.

BlockPay should have Stealth ready soon. Also they will help to kick start the MPA markets as merchands will consifer this option.

More initiative as BlockPay is probably the way to go to increase the depth of these markets.

I a little surprise that Ronny doesn't have implemented already stop loss and profit in OpenLedger. OL core is the trading plateform, it should have the very minimum features of any decent trading plateform.
This is probably discouraging lots of traders. Will see how it is going, I remember him saying something about beeing working on the GUI.

[karnal]

You forget that smartcoins uses collateral in BTS. The need for stable crypto asset will rise and these markets will grow.
BlockPay will probably help with that.
Each BitUSD is 2$ locked in BTS.
One million BitUSD in circulation means 2 millions $ in BTS bought. How much do you think the bts price would increase with ppl buying for 2 million $ of BTS ?

The plateform is perfect for creating all kind of index, baskets, ... which will also contribute at locking more collateral.

With a good commercialisation, I'm conffident that bittwenty could bring signigicant value to BTS.

The referral system may also take off later when we reach critical mass. That will also bring more fees.

Stealth transfers will also bring more fee to the system.

The other features still to be implemented ( as the bond market ) will also produce lots of fees.

There is also the unknows. Anytime, a new company can implement itself on top of BitShares and develop a new feature using the FBA.

IMO, your view on the BTS potential is too pessimistic.



Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

So here is the problem... You need to find people willing to create bitUSD.  No one has figured it out yet.  The only reason to do that would be that you think the value of BTS will rise vs bitUSD.  If BTS guaranteed you part of the profits, the value of BTS would go up.  This is how stocks work, the value generally increases as the companies profits increase.

Unfortunately there is no real plan to make BTS profitable.  The governance is poor and decisions on fee's are often deadlocked.  A lot of what you have in your post would be great to have (bond market, stealth, referral system) but the referral system was killed and the bond market is barely and idea in someones head.  I know blockpay is working on stealth, but they are going to be the ones reaping the fee rewards.  Exactly why I'm saying it's the companies who use the BTS platform that will get rich.  Not the BTS shareholders.  BTS shareholders are basically securing the companies blockchain transactions for free.  Not a profitable business model.

I'm not saying the potential of the BTS platform is bleak.  I'm saying if you are a BTS shareholder, the potential of the token value increasing is bleak.

Surely, all other things being equal, if there is more real-world usage of the platform (which also means people are trading/spending/hodling smartcoins), there has to be more collateral locked up, which means a higher BTS/FIAT price.

To the best of my present understanding, the above is irrefutable.

If so, we need to think what sort of initiatives can bring a wider range of users into the system.

I have some ideas, but don't see any of them taking off until we have STEALTH - it could be my bias, though, but me personally, I'm not going to be paying for anything with Smartcoins that's tied to anything in my name, that's a tool of oppression and not a tool of liberation.

As for bringing more traders in, I have a really hard time believing the platform will be attractive without, at least, stop-loss orders.

Stop-profit would also be nice.

I think those two are severely under-rated as a reason for serious traders avoiding bitshares right now.

[EstefanTT]

Well, I still think your point of vue is a bit on the pesimistic side.

It's hard right now for ppl to short (borrow) fiat BitAsset because everybody here is used to see BTS go slightly up and back down to 0.0035$.

From now, I see the BTS price going to increase. The only fact that the price is going up with the selling pressure from the merger looks very good.

If we reach 0.01 or 0.02$ / bts, trader will start to consider BitAsset market to benefit from the strong upward trend.

There is also another thing to consider. Baskets, indexes and other smartcoins won't be stable. The dual volatility will be something of a great interest for traders.

Let's take Bittwenty, its natural tendency should be to increase as cryptocurrency gain traction. But it will do that as any market, by waves. When Bittwenty will make a new high and BTS will be low, there will be there an incredible oportunity to short it. That should trigger a shorting momentum resulting in BTS going up and both side of the market beeing happy. Shorter win money and long term investors are able yo buy bittwenties.

I also see Peerplay, Steem, Muse and the next future graphene chains bring not only value to BTS but also new feature that we won't have to pay for. Just like the divident system Peerplays has created.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

[lil_jay890]

You forget that smartcoins uses collateral in BTS. The need for stable crypto asset will rise and these markets will grow.
BlockPay will probably help with that.
Each BitUSD is 2$ locked in BTS.
One million BitUSD in circulation means 2 millions $ in BTS bought. How much do you think the bts price would increase with ppl buying for 2 million $ of BTS ?

The plateform is perfect for creating all kind of index, baskets, ... which will also contribute at locking more collateral.

With a good commercialisation, I'm conffident that bittwenty could bring signigicant value to BTS.

The referral system may also take off later when we reach critical mass. That will also bring more fees.

Stealth transfers will also bring more fee to the system.

The other features still to be implemented ( as the bond market ) will also produce lots of fees.

There is also the unknows. Anytime, a new company can implement itself on top of BitShares and develop a new feature using the FBA.

IMO, your view on the BTS potential is too pessimistic.



Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

So here is the problem... You need to find people willing to create bitUSD.  No one has figured it out yet.  The only reason to do that would be that you think the value of BTS will rise vs bitUSD.  If BTS guaranteed you part of the profits, the value of BTS would go up.  This is how stocks work, the value generally increases as the companies profits increase.

Unfortunately there is no real plan to make BTS profitable.  The governance is poor and decisions on fee's are often deadlocked.  A lot of what you have in your post would be great to have (bond market, stealth, referral system) but the referral system was killed and the bond market is barely and idea in someones head.  I know blockpay is working on stealth, but they are going to be the ones reaping the fee rewards.  Exactly why I'm saying it's the companies who use the BTS platform that will get rich.  Not the BTS shareholders.  BTS shareholders are basically securing the companies blockchain transactions for free.  Not a profitable business model.

I'm not saying the potential of the BTS platform is bleak.  I'm saying if you are a BTS shareholder, the potential of the token value increasing is bleak.

[EstefanTT]

You forget that smartcoins uses collateral in BTS. The need for stable crypto asset will rise and these markets will grow.
BlockPay will probably help with that.
Each BitUSD is 2$ locked in BTS.
One million BitUSD in circulation means 2 millions $ in BTS bought. How much do you think the bts price would increase with ppl buying for 2 million $ of BTS ?

The plateform is perfect for creating all kind of index, baskets, ... which will also contribute at locking more collateral.

With a good commercialisation, I'm conffident that bittwenty could bring signigicant value to BTS.

The referral system may also take off later when we reach critical mass. That will also bring more fees.

Stealth transfers will also bring more fee to the system.

The other features still to be implemented ( as the bond market ) will also produce lots of fees.

There is also the unknows. Anytime, a new company can implement itself on top of BitShares and develop a new feature using the FBA.

IMO, your view on the BTS potential is too pessimistic.



Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

[lil_jay890]

I don't understand how this is a "trading discussion" and no one is mentioning that BTS just reversed the downward trading channel.

Because its hard to care abut BTS when literally every other crypto in the universe has outperformed it over the past 18 months.  BTS doesnt go up.  Everything else has some huge pumps sometimes, even total shitcoins.

The speculative money that is going to be made in the BTS ecosystem is going to be by the companies using the UIA system, not BTS.  BTS has no plan on ever making money.  This means no one wants/needs to buy the token.  All a bts token gives you is voting power, which most investors don't really care about.  If somehow the chain could be made profitable, then the value of the token would go up.  People are way to afraid of raising the fees. The platform may get popular, but because BTS is always operating at a loss the market cap will probably stay the same or fall.

Hey it could be worse than investing in BTS... you could be an investor in steem.

[Ander]

I don't understand how this is a "trading discussion" and no one is mentioning that BTS just reversed the downward trading channel.

Because its hard to care abut BTS when literally every other crypto in the universe has outperformed it over the past 18 months.  BTS doesnt go up.  Everything else has some huge pumps sometimes, even total shitcoins.

[mr-whitekey]

I don't understand how this is a "trading discussion" and no one is mentioning that BTS just reversed the downward trading channel.

Last three months has been a steady up trend. This gives me hope.

Also, if we look back from the inception of Bitshares 2.0 (around Nov 2015) until today we have had a very respectable run. Dollars is a better measure than BTC as the dollar is more stable. Against the Dollar we have gone from about .00352 to .00514 a 56.64% increase.

[Brekyrself]

We had Ander before, he was giving life to this thread but he is not as active as before.

Nice catch !

Let's see if it holds during the sell off from the ones who only bought BTS to have free Peerplays.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

Still a decent buy support on Poloniex of 470btc.  In the slow days of before I have seen it under 100btc.

[EstefanTT]

We had Ander before, he was giving life to this thread but he is not as active as before.

Nice catch !

Let's see if it holds during the sell off from the ones who only bought BTS to have free Peerplays.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

[Portabello75]

I don't understand how this is a "trading discussion" and no one is mentioning that BTS just reversed the downward trading channel.

[mr-whitekey]

Not so long ago we were about $0.0045 per share. Now it is $0.0054.

This!
Also keep in mind that we are having more and more ACTUAL companies working on BitShares and Graphene .. also thanks to Steem ..
We will actually soon see a native Steem Android App with all the transaction signing happening in Java .. THAT is the basis to also see BitShares native apps written in Java ..
as well as PHP, C# etc ... more devs looking into Graphene than EVER!

I don't really understand this. If you write it in Java how it is native to bitshares? What do you have to do different to make it compatible with bitshares?

How is this different than Lisk using JavaScript?

As far as price goes... why would the price change based on companies working on the BTS network? Are they building apps that need BTS to work? Could they use the network, but only negligibly, to get their company to work and thus not have a big impact on price?     

[xeroc]

Not so long ago we were about $0.0045 per share. Now it is $0.0054.

This!
Also keep in mind that we are having more and more ACTUAL companies working on BitShares and Graphene .. also thanks to Steem ..
We will actually soon see a native Steem Android App with all the transaction signing happening in Java .. THAT is the basis to also see BitShares native apps written in Java ..
as well as PHP, C# etc ... more devs looking into Graphene than EVER!

[nmywn]

Not so long ago we were about $0.0045 per share. Now it is $0.0054.

[KenMonkey]

I don't get it... Why everyone is talking about dumping bts after the peerplays snapshot? We are talking about 5% of peerplays allocation to bts. The amount is really just symbolic. People can buy peerplays now.

I think that the peerplay snapshot helps bts price slightly because bts are withdrawn from external exchanges and some more trading may happen in the DEX but other than that nothing more. And after the snapshot period, the worst that should happen is that people return their bts in external exchanges and trade there as they used to be.

But why dumping bts after the snapshot? That implies that the whole value of bts is only based on the value of peerplay. Are people so insane?

I'm surprised the BTS price hasn't risen more. 5% is not a symbolic or trivial amount. 5% of the  peerplays market cap means at least a 5% return for BTS holders if the market caps are equal (as they are for some reason). A lot of people are happy if they make 5% in a year!