Author Topic: Help me Identify the Top 10 most harmful laws!  (Read 6346 times)

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Offline kenCode

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Re: Help me Identify the Top 10 most harmful laws!
« Reply #45 on: December 06, 2015, 09:15:45 am »
Turning right on a red light?
Jaywalking?
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Offline Thom

Re: Help me Identify the Top 10 most harmful laws!
« Reply #46 on: December 06, 2015, 03:44:06 pm »
Just don't register to vote and you never get called in the first place.

it's a little harder.
Don't register to vote, don't register a vehicle or get a driver's license, don't have a job that requires a W4 (don't pay taxes), and don't receive any federal or state assistance (unemployment benefits)

I have never been called to Jury duty.  Luck?

Definitely luck. I am not US citizen and I am not eligible to vote, but I receive these requests to be jury 2-3 times per year. I am tired to tell them that I am not US citizen.

I got called just once.
I explained, when asked, that I was an engineering manager.
I was politely dismissed.
Haven't been called back since.

Not luck ^^^^THIS.

The attorneys / legal system don't want people on juries that can't be easily manipulated, triggered by emotional theatrics or those with the capacity to analyze problems and think critically.

All engineering professions and scientists fall into that camp. If you understand our legal system you NEVER show them how smart you are. I'm not suggesting you lie but rather play dumb as much as you can. Give the attorneys as little info as possible that would identify you as a smart, thinking person.

The power of jury nullification has been significantly reduced. Judges will "set aside" a jury verdict if the stakes are high and they can get away with it. Jurors that show too many "smarts" while deliberating can be found "biased" or other trumped up allegations made to get them kicked off the jury. Than can even happen if you just stubbornly hold out in opposition from the majority to "hang" the jury. That's why you need to be a bit sympathetic / cunning with how you interact on the jury. Play it as a game with your cards close to your vest. Think of it like one of those "survivor" / "big brother" reality shows. Politics and social skills are important.

Jury trials are very important in criminal cases where a single juror has the power to stop an innocent person from becoming the next victim of a "victimless" crime where nobody but The State budget and power looses, but your power as a juror is far less influential in civil cases.

Playing dumb is the best way to improve your chances of getting on a jury. Most don't want to spend time on jury duty b/c they are not taught about it's role in the legal system.

I also think the technical / critically thinking professions are weighted against in coming up with the list of prospective jurors. It's a filtration system, where the attorneys in the jury selection process are the final layer for weeding out those that cannot be easily manipulated. The system would not function the way that the powers that shouldn't be want it to if too many convictions were overturned by critically thinking jurors.

I once held the opinion that it was worth it to stay on the voting roster so I was in the running for jury selection. In 30 years in a single city have served on 2 civil juries, and was never invited to a criminal jury cattle call. It's so rare it wasn't a good reason to stay on the roster. A better strategy is to educate others of the importance and power they have as members of a **criminal** jury, and how best to use it and get past the filters.
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Tuck Fheman

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Re: Help me Identify the Top 10 most harmful laws!
« Reply #47 on: December 06, 2015, 04:40:14 pm »
Not luck ^^^^THIS.

The attorneys / legal system don't want people on juries that can't be easily manipulated, triggered by emotional theatrics or those with the capacity to analyze problems and think critically.

https://youtu.be/f40CZR2Fx2w

Offline roadscape

Re: Help me Identify the Top 10 most harmful laws!
« Reply #48 on: December 07, 2015, 06:42:27 pm »
I am looking for a list of laws that have the following characteristics:

1. Completely Unjust  (Victimless Crimes)
2. Probability of Getting Caught Violating the law is Low
3. Cost of getting caught is high
4. The penalty for getting caught is mostly financial
5. Have public sympathy for the individual prosecuted

There's good ideas in this thread but #5 is the most difficult characteristic to cover..

When I think of tax evasion, insider trading, even jaywalking, they don't scream "public sympathy"

What about things like whistleblowing? Surprised it hasn't been mentioned yet. Not "illegal" per se but it's definitely prosecuted. Although the penalty may be much more than financial.

Also consider:
 - Circumventing DRM & revealing proprietary keys
 - Hacking your own devices
 - Downloading music/movies
 - Operating a pirate radio station
 - Writing censorship-resitant software
http://cryptofresh.com  |  witness: roadscape

Offline lovejoy

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Re: Help me Identify the Top 10 most harmful laws!
« Reply #49 on: December 07, 2015, 10:29:49 pm »

I've seen so many lives ruined by unjust drug laws, this is the first and loudest thing that comes to mind, echoing sentiments of [member=32670]merivercap[/member], [member=5048]CLains[/member] and others above.

So I would put nonviolent drug offenses at the top of the list, especially since it affects such an insanely large number of people and consequently has a dramatically negative effect on society.
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/Prisons_and_Drugs

Thinking more on the topic at large.

Offline maqifrnswa

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Re: Help me Identify the Top 10 most harmful laws!
« Reply #50 on: December 07, 2015, 10:54:56 pm »
Not luck ^^^^THIS.

The attorneys / legal system don't want people on juries that can't be easily manipulated, triggered by emotional theatrics or those with the capacity to analyze problems and think critically.

https://youtu.be/f40CZR2Fx2w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBuNvyo4j54
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unreadPostsSinceLastVisit

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Re: Help me Identify the Top 10 most harmful laws!
« Reply #51 on: December 08, 2015, 01:23:03 am »

I've seen so many lives ruined by unjust drug laws, this is the first and loudest thing that comes to mind, echoing sentiments of [member=32670]merivercap[/member], [member=5048]CLains[/member] and others above.

So I would put nonviolent drug offenses at the top of the list, especially since it affects such an insanely large number of people and consequently has a dramatically negative effect on society.
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/Prisons_and_Drugs

Thinking more on the topic at large.

I haven't made this post yet because one of the criteria is the penalty is mostly financial.

Ruined ass life forever is a bit more than just financial.

Offline lovejoy

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Re: Help me Identify the Top 10 most harmful laws!
« Reply #52 on: December 08, 2015, 08:01:49 am »

I've seen so many lives ruined by unjust drug laws, this is the first and loudest thing that comes to mind, echoing sentiments of [member=32670]merivercap[/member], [member=5048]CLains[/member] and others above.

So I would put nonviolent drug offenses at the top of the list, especially since it affects such an insanely large number of people and consequently has a dramatically negative effect on society.
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/Prisons_and_Drugs

Thinking more on the topic at large.

I haven't made this post yet because one of the criteria is the penalty is mostly financial.

Ruined ass life forever is a bit more than just financial.

Ahh yes, true point... Mostly financial eh? Well beyond the point where ones freedoms are beginning to be restricted by the state for running afoul of various unjust laws and horribly disproportionate sentencing guidelines, the whole theater of supposed, 'justice' is constantly exacting dues and levying financial burdens upon the accused, requiring resources well beyond what the average citizen has access to.  Bail, legal fees, time away from work, general life disruption.  So yes, greatly financial in terms of penalty, up to the point where your other freedoms are violated, and then it's a whole other ballgame besides, right down to finding work with a felony on your resume... The modern reputation system at work.

Tuck Fheman

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Re: Help me Identify the Top 10 most harmful laws!
« Reply #53 on: December 08, 2015, 01:25:23 pm »
I'm just happy there's no law against how big muh sig font can be.  :P

Hey [member=31]fav[/member] muh sig font is bigger than yers!