Censorship is a sign of weakness

[chryspano]

“The Right To Swing Your Fist Ends Where My Nose Begins”

We are in a bar, a customer is constanly punching people in the nose, he is thrown out of the bar and some people are complaining that he should be left alone because he had every right to swing his fists! OMG!

[roadscape]

The "offending" post itself was a sign of weakness

I think we should lift the ban, the point has been made..

[Ben Mason]

Go tuck. You de man.

[Tuck Fheman]

Seeing as you've called me a Facist for my beliefs (i do hope you comprehend the irony here,) by all means, let's continue the discussion. 

No, please explain the irony in me "calling you a fascist" (actually I said "like a fascist" and that the actions taken against that user was "fascism") and the fascist acts taken against that user by banning them for speaking their mind.

I clearly see the difference, but it does not appear that you do. I did not call for you to be banned for acting like a fascist.

Speak and act like a fascist all you want and I may point it out when you do it, but I won't call for you to be banned, I'll put you on ignore.

I will say that i'm not interested in proving anybody wrong.

So far you are succeeding.

I'm interested to analyze my own view and wanted to acknowledge that others (at least you and Toast) had a different opinion. 

Thank you, although our opinions went completely ignored, like that user should have been. Why wasn't the same judgement used on him?

So far i've not heard anything that dissuades me from my belief that the censorship of repeat personal attackers is appropriate.

 

I accept that Stan has not asked for anyone's help or support and he may be completely comfortable with lzr1900's comments.  But do you know that for a fact? 

Nope. But you just opened up another can of worms that I don't feel like getting into at 8AM.

Do you know that everyone who may ever come under personal attack is comfortable with it in the future? 

Nope. And it's none of my business.

No one assigned me as "feeling protector" (and I would turn down the job if they did) and no one asked me to defend them from any perceived "personal attacks" ... in this case words, just words.

Words from a person few here respect the opinion of apparently, so why would anyone bother? You and fav can answer that question best I guess.

I don't think Stan said anything because he is a grown ass man and he can defend himself on his own if he felt the need. Apparently he didn't feel the need and neither would I.

Stan also has the ability to ban anyone he wants (my assumption), yet he didn't. Or maybe fav just beat him to the punch, but I doubt it. 

My offense comes from the principal that everyone is entitled to civility and that disagreements can be handled with respect. 

O RLY?

Many disagreements are the result of miscommunication after all......and let's face it, once personal attacks begin, disagreements can become infinitely harder to resolve.

Not really, just put them on ignore ... resolved!

If you can provide a well reasoned argument for why a culture of respect should not come to the defense of someone under personal attack (who may not be as easily able to shrug them off as you say Stan is,) then you'll definitely increase the chance of changing my opinion. 

I thought I did in my last post, so I'm going to give up after this one. 

You may very well be impossible to insult, offend or otherwise verbally harm tuck, for that i commend you, but not everyone is as robust as you and possibly Stan.

kk

You have not yet explained how you would deal with 100 lzr1900's......I guess just keep ignoring until you're reading 1 in every 100 posts?

Actually I did and you just outlined it in this comment, except you apparently don't understand what putting someone on "ignore" means.

It means you'll never have to read what they say again, much like what will happen with you and I after I finish this post.

If you were in a meeting with a group of people (in person) and one of your colleagues kept shouting 'Liar fucker!' every time you were attempting to make a point, what would you or the others present do? 

That's not what's happening here Ben and has nothing to do with what happened. This is a forum with an ignore function.

It's 8AM and I've grown tired of picking your arguments apart, so right now as far as I'm concerned you're being the guy you describe above ... look how I'm handling it.

I think I know how you would handle it though. You'd call someone else, probably a cop, to come beat the shit out of them and put them in a cage, amirite?

The point is that there are a billion examples where individuals self limit their freedom in order to fit social norms that are partly in place to enable large groups of people to live together in relative harmony.  For the most part, those social norms like non aggression towards others are desirable.  Just because communities now exist online and people are physically removed from the traditional consequences of breaking social norms, it does not mean they have any less value when observed or cause any less harm when flouted.

And here's where I put you on ignore and never have to see you act in a fascist manner again ... problem solved and no harm done to you!

You are free to continue speaking your mind, I just don't have to read it any longer and if 100 of you pop up, I don't have to read them either.

[Ben Mason]

None of these are examples of repeated personal attack  It's like you don't want to see the difference??

The only difference I see is that you're far more offended than I am by other peoples words.

I get that you don't like what he said, repeatedly, but did Stan ever complain about what he said?

I never saw Stan say a word. Stan appeared to handle it like a man ... a really strong man that's secure in his own skin.

Personally I don't think Stan needed anyone to come to his defense and I'm fairly certain Stan has the ability to ban someone himself.

Why did you two, not the Community, feel the need to ban the guy when Stan apparently had no issues with what was said?

Stan's obviously not a liar and anyone thinking that is dead wrong. He may play the salesman part at times, but isn't that his job?!

It's like me calling Stan an elephant. He's not an elephant and it's just a word with letters and sounds that you make when you move your mouth. Nothing more.

You chose to get offended, for who? For Stan? No for your own sake it appears.

Stan didn't need any defense, that I can see. He moved on with his life and ignored the asinine comment, as you should have in my opinion.

And before any ban request come for me, which obviously is all the rage today, I'm not "attacking" you. I'm expressing my own opinion and you can do with it whatever you like.

You should probably ignore it though, as you should have that user, but you appear to want to be offended and make it into some political statement that agrees with your current world view.

So be it. That's just my opinion and I frankly don't give a damn what you think about it. I'm just freely expressing myself in a rebuttal to what I think was an overreaction.

I think I'll leave the discussion now. I continue to believe that personal attackers should be warned and encouraged to find other ways to express themselves, then banned if they persist. I don't believe it harms the ideal of freedom, but enhances it. Many people find it difficult to express themselves properly in an environment in which they may be personally attacked. I'd rather 100 attackers were silenced than one victim.
Thanks for your time and consideration.

How difficult do you think people find it to express themselves on a forum where they see people getting banned for expressing their opinion or apparently giving out a token? 

I'd rather have 100 attackers voicing their discontent than watching two people ban everyone they disagree with personally. I get enough of that from my government thank you very much.

I believe people are less afraid of others ridiculous opinions than they are of being banned for speaking their minds, but that's probably just me.

You on the other hand appeared to have put a lot of weight behind that guys opinion, so much so that you got awful offended and like a fascist asked for him to be banned for speaking his mind.

"As long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone".

^^^ That's what you guys have said and Ben, that's fascism!



Wake up brother, you've gone to the dark side trying to protect someone who didn't need to be protected.

Disclaimer: These are simply my thoughts. They probably differ from yours and that's cool! I love differing opinions especially one's that prove me wrong. So go ahead Ben, prove me wrong so I can learn!

Seeing as you've called me a Facist for my beliefs (i do hope you comprehend the irony here,) by all means, let's continue the discussion.  I will say that i'm not interested in proving anybody wrong.  I'm interested to analyze my own view and wanted to acknowledge that others (at least you and Toast) had a different opinion.  So far i've not heard anything that dissuades me from my belief that the censorship of repeat personal attackers is appropriate.

I accept that Stan has not asked for anyone's help or support and he may be completely comfortable with lzr1900's comments.  But do you know that for a fact?  Do you know that everyone who may ever come under personal attack is comfortable with it in the future?  My offense comes from the principal that everyone is entitled to civility and that disagreements can be handled with respect.  Many disagreements are the result of miscommunication after all......and let's face it, once personal attacks begin, disagreements can become infinitely harder to resolve. 

If you can provide a well reasoned argument for why a culture of respect should not come to the defense of someone under personal attack (who may not be as easily able to shrug them off as you say Stan is,) then you'll definitely increase the chance of changing my opinion.  You may very well be impossible to insult, offend or otherwise verbally harm tuck, for that i commend you, but not everyone is as robust as you and possibly Stan.

You have not yet explained how you would deal with 100 lzr1900's......I guess just keep ignoring until you're reading 1 in every 100 posts?

If you were in a meeting with a group of people (in person) and one of your colleagues kept shouting 'Liar fucker!' every time you were attempting to make a point, what would you or the others present do? 

The point is that there are a billion examples where individuals self limit their freedom in order to fit social norms that are partly in place to enable large groups of people to live together in relative harmony.  For the most part, those social norms like non aggression towards others are desirable.  Just because communities now exist online and people are physically removed from the traditional consequences of breaking social norms, it does not mean they have any less value when observed or cause any less harm when flouted.

[fav]

Why did you two, not the Community, feel the need to ban the guy when Stan apparently had no issues with what was said?

It was my decision to ban him and I already communicated that earlier in this thread.

@CRAPCOIN in case you're not trying to troll my time: everyone is free to demand anything they wish, doesn't mean it'll become reality. as long as you play by the rules there's no reason to get banned.

However, if the tipbot is used to bump up old and obsolete threads to derail the whole forum there's only one logical consequence: the medium will be stopped.

If I get the time I'll collect a list of bans from this year. I think there are probably 2 regular user bans other than spambots, which is a very good number in my opinion.

[alt]

well said, Tuck Fheman

[Tuck Fheman]

None of these are examples of repeated personal attack  It's like you don't want to see the difference??

The only difference I see is that you're far more offended than I am by other peoples words.

I get that you don't like what he said, repeatedly, but did Stan ever complain about what he said?

I never saw Stan say a word. Stan appeared to handle it like a man ... a really strong man that's secure in his own skin.

Personally I don't think Stan needed anyone to come to his defense and I'm fairly certain Stan has the ability to ban someone himself.

Why did you two, not the Community, feel the need to ban the guy when Stan apparently had no issues with what was said?

Stan's obviously not a liar and anyone thinking that is dead wrong. He may play the salesman part at times, but isn't that his job?!

It's like me calling Stan an elephant. He's not an elephant and it's just a word with letters and sounds that you make when you move your mouth. Nothing more.

You chose to get offended, for who? For Stan? No for your own sake it appears.

Stan didn't need any defense, that I can see. He moved on with his life and ignored the asinine comment, as you should have in my opinion.

And before any ban request come for me, which obviously is all the rage today, I'm not "attacking" you. I'm expressing my own opinion and you can do with it whatever you like.

You should probably ignore it though, as you should have that user, but you appear to want to be offended and make it into some political statement that agrees with your current world view.

So be it. That's just my opinion and I frankly don't give a damn what you think about it. I'm just freely expressing myself in a rebuttal to what I think was an overreaction.

I think I'll leave the discussion now. I continue to believe that personal attackers should be warned and encouraged to find other ways to express themselves, then banned if they persist. I don't believe it harms the ideal of freedom, but enhances it. Many people find it difficult to express themselves properly in an environment in which they may be personally attacked. I'd rather 100 attackers were silenced than one victim.
Thanks for your time and consideration.

How difficult do you think people find it to express themselves on a forum where they see people getting banned for expressing their opinion or apparently giving out a token? 

I'd rather have 100 attackers voicing their discontent than watching two people ban everyone they disagree with personally. I get enough of that from my government thank you very much.

I believe people are less afraid of others ridiculous opinions than they are of being banned for speaking their minds, but that's probably just me.

You on the other hand appeared to have put a lot of weight behind that guys opinion, so much so that you got awful offended and like a fascist asked for him to be banned for speaking his mind.

"As long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone".

^^^ That's what you guys have said and Ben, that's fascism!



Wake up brother, you've gone to the dark side trying to protect someone who didn't need to be protected.

Disclaimer: These are simply my thoughts. They probably differ from yours and that's cool! I love differing opinions especially one's that prove me wrong. So go ahead Ben, prove me wrong so I can learn!

[CRAPCOIN]

@fav before you unwisely ban me who are the other mods that I can contact to overrule your decision?  This is not fair at all and outright unfriendly and another mod should be able to give input before you alone make a decision like this. All I did was give a UIA away! Why does that deserve a ban? Is there anyone on this forum that can stop this guy from banning me for no good reason?!

I did not talk about you. currently, we only ban on personal attacks, and only after some warnings.

edit: unless you're a spam bot ofc

OIC. So who was your ban image directed at if not me? If I'm mistaken I'm sorry, but it sure appeared that you were threatening to ban me because those other two asked me to be banned for some reason. I did not attack anyone, I gave people a free user issued asset. Please explain what is going on here.

[Ben Mason]

but any sane person should realise

I'm offended by your comment.

I request that Ben Mason be banned.

You've lifted part of a non personal comment that is absent any vulgarity or slander and are judging me more harshly than lzr1900.....given the number of his comments?  Your singular point being that anyone can be offended by anything, therefore we cannot set and enforce any standards for communication.  I think this is a lazy argument.  First, the argument throws any victim of abuse under the proverbial bus. Second, its perfectly possible to apply reason to each situation, allow for extenuating circumstances or reconciliation. Third, I hope that there exists a majority who's ideas of communication have a great deal of commonality, grounded in freedom & courtesy.....there's a great deal of evidence of that being the case in the pages of this forum!

Big fucking deal! Like that really matters.

To put this in the nicest terms possible: have you people completely lost your fucking minds?

how can you be so fucking stupid?!

Pull your fucking heads out of your ass

please try to know something before you post this fucking shit

that's just fucking disgusting.

Keep your fucking money I'm out.

I have no fucking idea what is going on.

I'll stop there, maybe you guys get my point, maybe not. BTW, none of the above were banned. And I'd also like to point out that just as many people were asking why he was banned as were calling for his ban. So, "community" bitches! lmao

None of these are examples of repeated personal attack  It's like you don't want to see the difference??

I think I'll leave the discussion now. I continue to believe that personal attackers should be warned and encouraged to find other ways to express themselves, then banned if they persist. I don't believe it harms the ideal of freedom, but enhances it. Many people find it difficult to express themselves properly in an environment in which they may be personally attacked. I'd rather 100 attackers were silenced than one victim.

Thanks for your time and consideration.

[fav]

@fav before you unwisely ban me who are the other mods that I can contact to overrule your decision?  This is not fair at all and outright unfriendly and another mod should be able to give input before you alone make a decision like this. All I did was give a UIA away! Why does that deserve a ban? Is there anyone on this forum that can stop this guy from banning me for no good reason?!

I did not talk about you. currently, we only ban on personal attacks, and only after some warnings.

edit: unless you're a spam bot ofc

[CRAPCOIN]

@fav before you unwisely ban me who are the other mods that I can contact to overrule your decision?  This is not fair at all and outright unfriendly and another mod should be able to give input before you alone make a decision like this. All I did was give a UIA away! Why does that deserve a ban? Is there anyone on this forum that can stop this guy from banning me for no good reason?!

[CRAPCOIN]

I think the tolerance level of this community is quite high, and you have to work extra hard to get on the ban list.

Well in that case I apologize for creating a UIA on BitShares and sharing it with your community. I simply don't understand the reasoning behind this. Are you guys taking offense to the name of the UIA? It was created because many of you here refer to most UIA's as CRAPCOIN so I capitalized on that words popularity among your forum and thought it was funny.

You guys have ORGASMS and other funny named UIA's. Are you banning those people too? Are you three on the banning people who create UIA's committee or something? Is there anyone else in this community that can override you three guys who have no sense of humor and abuse your mod powers on a whim?

Do I get a refund of my 5,000 BTS for thinking this community was mature enough to handle a fun UIA but instead I get banned for passing them out freely?

[fav]

I think the tolerance level of this community is quite high, and you have to work extra hard to get on the ban list.

[CRAPCOIN]

I move to ban @CRAPCOIN from the forum. It's crapping on every thread.

Hey, while we're at it... why not? 

For giving away a fun UIA using the communities tipbot? Why all of the hate? I thought this community was all about user issued assets and sharing but as soon as someone does that immediate ban request come for posting 5 or 6 free giveaways to people who used the word CRAPCOIN? Seriously? Don't you guys have better things to do than banning people using your platforms?