Author Topic: ETF-like BitAsset that's pegged to the price of the top 10 coins?  (Read 6012 times)

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Offline EstefanTT

Re: ETF-like BitAsset that's pegged to the price of the top 10 coins?
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2016, 12:42:53 am »
We gave it a shot with a friend during these last months. It's a beta web site around two indexes.
"Bit20" is a weighted index of the top 20 crypto. The wieght is done like a classical index as the cac40.
To be able to related to fiat, we also created an index for fiat with the top 10 fiat, the FIAT10.
I'm no sure where I'm going with that but the math and calibration of the indexes are pretty decents.

You can find all the graphs, math and ponderations on the beta website here : http://www.bitsharesfcx.com/bit20/homepage_fr.php

Unfortunately, it's only available in french right now .. even like that, graphs are very cool to watch ;p

Anyone wanting to participate, translate, grow this project is very welcome.

This is pretty cool, You can probably talk to [member=120]xeroc[/member] and he can help you build a smartcoin for Bit20 ... I know a lot of people would be interested in something like this so I am down if you need any help... I can translate from english to spanish but no french lol
The french texts needs an update, they were made in july. I was thinking to update them and make a first draft in english and look for someone to correct it.
A spanish version would be cool !

Create a smartcoin like that would be amazing I agree. It could even bring crypto investors in Bitshares !
Bit20, the cryptocurrency index fund http://www.bittwenty.com
(BitShares French ConneXion - www.bitsharesfcx.com)

Offline JonnyB

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Re: ETF-like BitAsset that's pegged to the price of the top 10 coins?
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2016, 02:33:09 am »
METAFEES are in effect a basket of 4 cryptos BTC BTS ETH NXT
METAFEES trade in the free market but are not redeemable for the basket of coins. This could be considered the first bitETF.

They have a (NAV) net asset value which was quoted by [member=3967]Shentist[/member] at the last buyback.
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Offline fuzzy

Re: ETF-like BitAsset that's pegged to the price of the top 10 coins?
« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2016, 02:43:12 am »
Forgive me if this already available somewhere, but a search of the forum didn't turn up anything. Does anyone know if there is a BitAsset that's pegged to a market cap weighted basket of the top ten cryptocurrencies?   I think cryptocurrencies are going to explode in value, but god if I can predict which ones.  I'd like an easy way to buy / sell the market as a whole.  Does this exist already? 

ETF equivalents for other market baskets would also be helpful (S&P 500, metals, etc)

i have talked about orecisely this thing in mumble with bm probably over a year ago now. funny how these ideas spring up again. i take it as a testiment to the validity!
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Offline xeroc

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Re: ETF-like BitAsset that's pegged to the price of the top 10 coins?
« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2016, 06:44:59 am »
We gave it a shot with a friend during these last months. It's a beta web site around two indexes.
"Bit20" is a weighted index of the top 20 crypto. The wieght is done like a classical index as the cac40.
To be able to related to fiat, we also created an index for fiat with the top 10 fiat, the FIAT10.
I'm no sure where I'm going with that but the math and calibration of the indexes are pretty decents.

You can find all the graphs, math and ponderations on the beta website here : http://www.bitsharesfcx.com/bit20/homepage_fr.php

Unfortunately, it's only available in french right now .. even like that, graphs are very cool to watch ;p

Anyone wanting to participate, translate, grow this project is very welcome.

This is pretty cool, You can probably talk to [member=120]xeroc[/member] and he can help you build a smartcoin for Bit20 ... I know a lot of people would be interested in something like this so I am down if you need any help... I can translate from english to spanish but no french lol
The french texts needs an update, they were made in july. I was thinking to update them and make a first draft in english and look for someone to correct it.
A spanish version would be cool !

Create a smartcoin like that would be amazing I agree. It could even bring crypto investors in Bitshares !

That can surely be done .. the symbol can't carry numbers though ..

What coding language do you use for deriving the numbers?

If you feel confident about creating a smartcoin, you can drop me a mail at Fabian[member=73]bitshares[/member].org.

This would be a very basic feed script written in python:
https://github.com/BitSharesEurope/testnet-pythonscripts/blob/master/feed.random.py (before you use it, please test the actual numbers on the testnet so that you don't publish a wrong feed!)
Give BitShares a try! Use the http://testnet.bitshares.eu provided by http://bitshares.eu powered by ChainSquad GmbH

Offline karnal

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Re: ETF-like BitAsset that's pegged to the price of the top 10 coins?
« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2016, 07:40:42 am »
Someone raised a very interesting pont on the thread.

Who would be mad enough to short this one? And if the answer is nobody, doesn't that essentially prevent any CRYPTOTEN from ever seeing the light of day?

I don't understand the shorting rules very well, maybe it's just the opposite, people kinda always expect it to go up, so they short it and buy it for themselves.. anyone has an idea?


Either way, this could be HUGE!

Offline hcf27

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Re: ETF-like BitAsset that's pegged to the price of the top 10 coins?
« Reply #20 on: March 17, 2016, 11:52:19 am »
Someone raised a very interesting pont on the thread.

Who would be mad enough to short this one? And if the answer is nobody, doesn't that essentially prevent any CRYPTOTEN from ever seeing the light of day?

I don't understand the shorting rules very well, maybe it's just the opposite, people kinda always expect it to go up, so they short it and buy it for themselves.. anyone has an idea?


Either way, this could be HUGE!

Well considering 16% price drop on ethereum and 5% drop on bts it wouldnt have been such a bad thing to short a day like today!

Offline yvv

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Re: ETF-like BitAsset that's pegged to the price of the top 10 coins?
« Reply #21 on: March 17, 2016, 12:00:42 pm »
Someone raised a very interesting pont on the thread.

Who would be mad enough to short this one? And if the answer is nobody, doesn't that essentially prevent any CRYPTOTEN from ever seeing the light of day?

I don't understand the shorting rules very well, maybe it's just the opposite, people kinda always expect it to go up, so they short it and buy it for themselves.. anyone has an idea?


Either way, this could be HUGE!

The price of CRYPTOTEN will go up and down against BTS, so shorting will make sense. Besides, you don't necessarily need to short it after you create it. You can exchange it for underlying coins.
 

Offline EstefanTT

Re: ETF-like BitAsset that's pegged to the price of the top 10 coins?
« Reply #22 on: March 17, 2016, 12:25:49 pm »
When creating this index and website with my friend, we first though about creating an IUA and make a market of it with a 0.1% cut on the trades so we can grow the project with these funds on communication, better website, ... the problem is, it would be centralised and anybody would trust us with large funds.
So we have to make a smartcoin out of it. Is there a way to benefit from the creation and liquidity of a smartcoin ?
The ecomical incentive is important because it would cost a lot of time to evolve this project. BTS didn't reach 1€ this month and still have to work to pay the rent and my free time is already absorbed by the bitsharesfcx.com website.

I'm not familiar with the smartcoin creation and ownership if there is such thing. Am I missing something ?
« Last Edit: March 17, 2016, 01:34:50 pm by EstefanTT »
Bit20, the cryptocurrency index fund http://www.bittwenty.com
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Offline hcf27

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Re: ETF-like BitAsset that's pegged to the price of the top 10 coins?
« Reply #23 on: March 17, 2016, 12:32:24 pm »
When creating this index and website with my friend, we first though about creating an IUA and make a market of it with a 0.1% cut on the trades so we can grow the project with these funds on communication, better website, ... the problem is, it would be centralised and anybody would trust us with large funds.
So we have to make a smartcoin out of it. Is there a way to benefit from the creation and liquidity of a smartcoin ?
The ecomical incentive is important because it would cost a lot of time to evolve this project. BTS didn't reach 1€ this month and still have to work to pay the rent and my free time is already absorbed by the bitsharesfcx.com website.

I'm not familiar with the smartcoin creation and ownership if there is such thing. Am I missing solething ?

I think the issue with a centralized smartcoin its not the funds since they are generated via shorting, but people need to trust the feed... I think bitcrab made a couple of smartcoins.

1% seems reasanable for your work

Offline yvv

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Re: ETF-like BitAsset that's pegged to the price of the top 10 coins?
« Reply #24 on: March 17, 2016, 02:24:15 pm »
When creating this index and website with my friend, we first though about creating an IUA and make a market of it with a 0.1% cut on the trades so we can grow the project with these funds on communication, better website, ... the problem is, it would be centralised and anybody would trust us with large funds.
So we have to make a smartcoin out of it. Is there a way to benefit from the creation and liquidity of a smartcoin ?
The ecomical incentive is important because it would cost a lot of time to evolve this project. BTS didn't reach 1€ this month and still have to work to pay the rent and my free time is already absorbed by the bitsharesfcx.com website.

I'm not familiar with the smartcoin creation and ownership if there is such thing. Am I missing something ?

You UIA will be trusted if you present an evidence that it is 100% backed by underlying assets, which is easy to prove on blockchain. Sell you UIA at premium, buy back at discount, make profit.

If you go decentralized way, you put yourself into same boat with your competitors.


Offline karnal

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Re: ETF-like BitAsset that's pegged to the price of the top 10 coins?
« Reply #25 on: March 17, 2016, 02:49:22 pm »
Personally I'd say going the Smartcoin way is the best option here. It's better if we dont' have to trust a 3rd party, especially over years .. otherwise it's no better than a brokerage account (well, less fees, but that's it) .. if the broker goes bust, that's it.

In fact, it's worse in this case, because the broker (UIA creator) would be small fish.

We need to take advantage of the Smartcoins.. getting rid of centralization and having to trust a third party was/is one of the big things which Bitshares could/can use to distinguish itself... IMO.

Offline hcf27

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Re: ETF-like BitAsset that's pegged to the price of the top 10 coins?
« Reply #26 on: March 17, 2016, 03:16:14 pm »
Personally I'd say going the Smartcoin way is the best option here. It's better if we dont' have to trust a 3rd party, especially over years .. otherwise it's no better than a brokerage account (well, less fees, but that's it) .. if the broker goes bust, that's it.

In fact, it's worse in this case, because the broker (UIA creator) would be small fish.

We need to take advantage of the Smartcoins.. getting rid of centralization and having to trust a third party was/is one of the big things which Bitshares could/can use to distinguish itself... IMO.
+5%

Offline EstefanTT

Re: ETF-like BitAsset that's pegged to the price of the top 10 coins?
« Reply #27 on: March 17, 2016, 05:18:24 pm »
Personally I'd say going the Smartcoin way is the best option here. It's better if we dont' have to trust a 3rd party, especially over years .. otherwise it's no better than a brokerage account (well, less fees, but that's it) .. if the broker goes bust, that's it.

In fact, it's worse in this case, because the broker (UIA creator) would be small fish.

We need to take advantage of the Smartcoins.. getting rid of centralization and having to trust a third party was/is one of the big things which Bitshares could/can use to distinguish itself... IMO.

That's also what I think !

An UIA will never be a popular index because of the risk associated with one person in control of the funds.

In the case of a smartcoin, the index becomes decentralised, the witness provides the price feed based on a script and the token only can exist with shorters. It belongs to the Blockchain and nobody can profit from it except BitShares itself from the transactions and trades made with the smartcoin.

In that case, why would someone spend the time and efforts to create a smartcoin if there is no economical incventives ? Pure altruisme is not the strong suit of human beeing ...

Did I understand it well ?
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Offline Shentist

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Re: ETF-like BitAsset that's pegged to the price of the top 10 coins?
« Reply #28 on: March 17, 2016, 05:36:14 pm »
METAFEES are in effect a basket of 4 cryptos BTC BTS ETH NXT
METAFEES trade in the free market but are not redeemable for the basket of coins. This could be considered the first bitETF.

They have a (NAV) net asset value which was quoted by [member=3967]Shentist[/member] at the last buyback.

that's true! I personal see METAFEES as a kind of index with added feature of earning some money via transfering value between the supported coins. the
risk of the UIA is the same as ever : we can run with the money or could get hacked or we have a major failure in our pricing.

i like the idea or a ETF as a smartcoin, and who would short it? the same people who are shorting bitBTC. all the believers they think BTS will outperforme
the basket.

Offline karnal

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Re: ETF-like BitAsset that's pegged to the price of the top 10 coins?
« Reply #29 on: March 17, 2016, 06:05:56 pm »
In that case, why would someone spend the time and efforts to create a smartcoin if there is no economical incventives ? Pure altruisme is not the strong suit of human beeing ...

Did I understand it well ?

I've been around for some time and still don't really quite understand the mechanics of this and what's at stake.

Am I risking losing money if I borrow some BitCHF for instance?

Or if the closest sell for BitUSD is too far from settlement price, could I make a profit by borrowing some USD and selling it at a fair price?

It just seems a bit like wizardry, the rules are not so clear (or I failed to grasp them) .. maybe the incentives are not set up right.. I don't know.

It would be nice if someone has a nice article/blog post explaining this in a way that a trading noobie could grasp.



Other than that.. this really seems like a good idea, I'd buy 500€ worth of the stuff every month!