Author Topic: ETF-like BitAsset that's pegged to the price of the top 10 coins?  (Read 5358 times)

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Offline EstefanTT

Re: ETF-like BitAsset that's pegged to the price of the top 10 coins?
« Reply #30 on: March 17, 2016, 06:10:34 pm »
In that case, why would someone spend the time and efforts to create a smartcoin if there is no economical incventives ? Pure altruisme is not the strong suit of human beeing ...

Did I understand it well ?

I've been around for some time and still don't really quite understand the mechanics of this and what's at stake.

Am I risking losing money if I borrow some BitCHF for instance?

Or if the closest sell for BitUSD is too far from settlement price, could I make a profit by borrowing some USD and selling it at a fair price?

It just seems a bit like wizardry, the rules are not so clear (or I failed to grasp them) .. maybe the incentives are not set up right.. I don't know.

It would be nice if someone has a nice article/blog post explaining this in a way that a trading noobie could grasp.



Other than that.. this really seems like a good idea, I'd buy 500€ worth of the stuff every month!
Lots of persons would put some money in it, even invest part of their bank account fiat money. The index can't hardly go down on the long run. It would be like a hell of a good investment oportunity.

If anyone can answer the questions in this thread, (s)he is very welcomebto participate.
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Offline karnal

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Re: ETF-like BitAsset that's pegged to the price of the top 10 coins?
« Reply #31 on: March 17, 2016, 06:14:49 pm »
I say lets add this to the price feed scripts, then advertise it on /r/cryptocurrency and some major news sites (some of our people are well connected for this and know who to reach for).

This ETF is one way only: MOON :o

... however.

It makes most sense for the most active markets on this one to be :USD, :EUR, :CNY and probably :BTC, so it seems the liquidity problem would have to be eliminated for this to really make sense!

Offline xeroc

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Re: ETF-like BitAsset that's pegged to the price of the top 10 coins?
« Reply #32 on: March 17, 2016, 06:20:15 pm »
When you create a smartcoin you can choose the collateral asset .. and by this you also choose a base market .. e.g. USD:BTS (BTS is collateral)
Any price in markets are actually relations between 2 assets. Gold price is denoted in USD or EUR (two assets). BTS price is denoted in BTC (two prices).

Now people shorting speculate on the USD/BTS price to go down .. e.g. BTS to worth more USD. .. or USD being worth less BTS. Then they buy back and make a profit.

This you can do with an index as well .. if the TOP10 index has BTS as collateral, then you speculate the BTS price against the price of all top10 coins .. e.g. the BTS asset to climb in the list of top10 assets.
If the smartcoin had bitUSD as collateral .. then you would speculate on the USD nomination of the top10 index to go up or down (pretty much like the number at the very top of coinmarketcap.com)

So there will CERTAINLY be people shorting it ... if they only knew about it!
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Offline karnal

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Re: ETF-like BitAsset that's pegged to the price of the top 10 coins?
« Reply #33 on: March 17, 2016, 06:39:27 pm »
Add "Xerocs' guide to making a million with CRYPTOTEN" to the list of things we need!

Seriously though. I think this could be huge..

Offline xeroc

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Re: ETF-like BitAsset that's pegged to the price of the top 10 coins?
« Reply #34 on: March 17, 2016, 07:14:53 pm »
now let's assume we had a liquid USD .. then you could create that index with USD as collateral .. and really let people speculate on that one number on CMC :)

Shoot me a PM if you want to make this real and need concrete technical assistance!
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Offline tonyk

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Re: ETF-like BitAsset that's pegged to the price of the top 10 coins?
« Reply #35 on: March 17, 2016, 07:36:19 pm »

In that case, why would someone spend the time and efforts to create a smartcoin if there is no economical incventives ? Pure altruisme is not the strong suit of human beeing ...

Did I understand it well ?

You can for sure set and collect a trading fee of any smart coin you create. So there is an incentive. Take a look at this private smart coin - TCNY http://cryptofresh.com/a/TCNY. There is a field "Market fee" it is 0% in this case, but you can set it to anything say 0.2% and collect 0.2% on each trade for you smart coin.
Some money can be made by setting the core exchange rate for the coin, too
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline hcf27

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Re: ETF-like BitAsset that's pegged to the price of the top 10 coins?
« Reply #36 on: March 17, 2016, 07:51:00 pm »
now let's assume we had a liquid USD .. then you could create that index with USD as collateral .. and really let people speculate on that one number on CMC :)

Shoot me a PM if you want to make this real and need concrete technical assistance!

Come on! lets make this happen boys! it can sky rocket BTS for sure.. I will contribute with some marketing once the asset is out

Offline karnal

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Re: ETF-like BitAsset that's pegged to the price of the top 10 coins?
« Reply #37 on: March 17, 2016, 08:21:54 pm »
 +5% +5% +5% +5%

Offline EstefanTT

Re: ETF-like BitAsset that's pegged to the price of the top 10 coins?
« Reply #38 on: March 17, 2016, 08:30:12 pm »
now let's assume we had a liquid USD .. then you could create that index with USD as collateral .. and really let people speculate on that one number on CMC :)

Shoot me a PM if you want to make this real and need concrete technical assistance!
Thanks ! I will !

I have to talk first with the friend who made this with me and see what he thinks about that but he will probably be thrill be the idea.

We will probably have to review our math and ponderations to be sure it's perfect before going any further.
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Re: ETF-like BitAsset that's pegged to the price of the top 10 coins?
« Reply #39 on: March 17, 2016, 11:37:44 pm »
I'd like to see speculation on:

AltCrypto10 (#2 - #11)
Crypto10 (#1 - #10)

I think you will have 2 different markets that have different opinions about adding in Bitcoin.

Offline EstefanTT

Re: ETF-like BitAsset that's pegged to the price of the top 10 coins?
« Reply #40 on: March 18, 2016, 01:18:49 am »
I'd like to see speculation on:

AltCrypto10 (#2 - #11)
Crypto10 (#1 - #10)

I think you will have 2 different markets that have different opinions about adding in Bitcoin.
The way the index is done limit the % (the weight) of the biggest MC. BTC doesn't weight more than 10% in the Bit20 ( index of the 20 top crypto.)
Also, the index doesn't include ripple, we felt we can't consider it like an crypto-currency because of the centralisation.

I think the distinction BTC / Altcoins is going to disapear slowly. We'll soon call all of them "cryptocurrencies". Last week, ETH was value at 1/6th of BTC MC, it didn't feel like an Altcoin to me. Neither will BTS when it will be 4x the MC of BTC ... ;p
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Offline karnal

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Re: ETF-like BitAsset that's pegged to the price of the top 10 coins?
« Reply #41 on: March 18, 2016, 07:19:11 am »
I'm really excited about this one. I pledge to buy 500€ worth of the stuff every month, in BTC or EUR or CNY.

Lets make it happen!

Offline CLains

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Re: ETF-like BitAsset that's pegged to the price of the top 10 coins?
« Reply #42 on: March 18, 2016, 12:27:22 pm »
Just some ideas. I'd love to trade these..

coin10

Bitcoin
Litecoin
Dash
Doge
Monero

alt10

Bitcoin
Litecoin
Dash
Doge
Monero

chain10

Ethereum
Ripple
MaidSafecoin
BitShares
Factom

top10

all of above

altchain20

MaidSafecoin
BitShares
Factom
Peercoin
Counterparty
NEM
NXT

Ultimately whoever is creating these needs to decide what feels like it will be most in demand, what kind of weighting etc. and then iterate with market research to find out what's best.

As far as I can tell, demand is there for anything that's "good enough" in this direction ("perfect" can be enemy of "good enough"!) and I know for my own part I would trade all of these and all of those suggested here so far :)

Offline EstefanTT

Re: ETF-like BitAsset that's pegged to the price of the top 10 coins?
« Reply #43 on: March 18, 2016, 04:29:42 pm »
I'll probably send a mail to Xerox to have an idea of the steps to migrate the Bit20 index in the BC as a smartcoin. Maybe the Fiat10 would also be a nice smartcoin. First I'll try to figure out the most of it by myself to avoid consuming the Xeroc time, I'm sure he have a lot of things going on.

When I will have a good idea of the way to do this, I'll create an offical thread on bts.talk for anyone who is willing to give us feedbacks and participate.

As I intent to to fix a % on trades (around 0.1% probably), there will be potential incomes coming from the creation, commercialisation and liquidity of this index and an incentive for anyone wanting to participe in exchanges for the shares of future revenues.
I was thinking about creating a UIA with limited supply that would represent 100% of the revenue generated by the 0.1% on the trades of the Bit20 index. That would allow us to reward anybody helping with this project with an actual % of all trades made on this Smartcoin untill the end of time. When liquidity and trades would kick off, we could use a buy back or dividends system.

I still have to think about it but the idea would be :

# Create the BIT20 smartcoin, maybe also the FIAT10 (with other name as we can't have numbers in asset names)
# Revamp the bit20 web site : http://www.bitsharesfcx.com/bit20/homepage_fr.php
       - Decides the content of the website : Bit20 graph and info only or more Crypto stuff (Troll box, news, mini bog, ... ?)
       - Global spirit and design
# Decide how many languages the website will offert : English only ? French, spanish, chinese, portuguese, ... ??



 
« Last Edit: March 18, 2016, 04:33:44 pm by EstefanTT »
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Offline hcf27

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Re: ETF-like BitAsset that's pegged to the price of the top 10 coins?
« Reply #44 on: March 18, 2016, 04:47:18 pm »



When I will have a good idea of the way to do this, I'll create an offical thread on bts.talk for anyone who is willing to give us feedbacks and participate.

As I intent to to fix a % on trades (around 0.1% probably), there will be potential incomes coming from the creation, commercialisation and liquidity of this index and an incentive for anyone wanting to participe in exchanges for the shares of future revenues.
I was thinking about creating a UIA with limited supply that would represent 100% of the revenue generated by the 0.1% on the trades of the Bit20 index. That would allow us to reward anybody helping with this project with an actual % of all trades made on this Smartcoin untill the end of time. When liquidity and trades would kick off, we could use a buy back or dividends system.


I like the idea, once the smartcoin is created I would be more than happy to buy some shares and also collaborate with the marketing.

I am very excited about the potential of this project.

I do think that Bts should be the collateral used tho, there is just not enough liquidity on the bitusd market to be held as collateral.