Author Topic: [ANN] [STEEM] Introducing Steem, Looking for Witnesses / Miners  (Read 59926 times)

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Offline Empirical1.2

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Re: [ANN] [STEEM] Introducing Steem, Looking for Witnesses / Miners
« Reply #60 on: April 04, 2016, 12:41:57 am »


Perhaps something like a decentralized alternative to threaded discussion forums, e.g. Reddit self posts (though limited to STEEMIT_MAX_COMMENT_DEPTH == 6 nested comments, which I guess is a reasonable number),
except with the distinguishing feature of economic rewards for good comments ("What do you mean internet karma points don't have to be worthless?" ;)).
Though perhaps that could backfire as well: redditors take karma too seriously as it is even though it currently provide no economic value whatsoever. But it would be fun to see how economic incentives modify social behavior online.


From Ned Scott's Linked in

Quote
Steemit is a social media platform where everyone gets paid for creating and curating content.

Synereo is a similar concept  http://www.synereo.com/

Quote
Synereo is a fully decentralized and distributed social platform owned by the people who use it.
Your attention is scarce, precious and powerful.It’s time for it to work for you.

Synereo is vastly different and was evaluated along with other competitors prior to building Steem.

The SBD (which seems to be a USD pegged asset with a possible interest rate bonus on top) is interesting. There is a DEX on the network with just a single market STEEM/SBD (plus there are subsidies to liquidity providers which is great addition), but yet it seems pretty clear that SBD is not BitUSD/Smartcoins. Specifically, there is no SBD borrow with collateral mechanism available. It is possible to convert SBD to STEEM but the blockchain just destroys the SBD and prints enough new STEEM to satisfy the conversion at an exchange rate (after a 7 day delay) at the given median price feed provided by the witnesses. Thus, I think it is safe to say that all STEEM holders are effectively forced to take the "short position" against the SBD. By holding STEEM they are betting that its price should outperform the USD plus blockchain-declared interest rate.

Well you may have a BitUSD with an interest rate bonus and a mechanism for simple conversions which is exactly what I've been pushing for with my BitUSD Yield & Simple SmartCoin threads.  I can also see the value of using a social media platform for creating network effect & bootstrapping said USD.  So I think it has some potential.

Tipping with BitUSD will be huge in terms of the network effect it could help generate.

We have a product that BTC doesn't have, Currency Stable Smartcoins. (Still need more liquidity) We just need to find a way to showcase them to the hundreds of thousands of people that could benefit them. Cue tipping and cue social media.

The main potential issue at this stage is the method of launch & how it will be received which I've already given my opinion on earlier. (You may be thinking again that given it's a USD product and a separate platform you may be able to leapfrog the crypto community somewhat so their opinion is moot, but I'm fairly confident that's not the case.) I'm also not sure this couldn't be replicated on BTS in some way.

Having said that I can obviously see it has value, when will it be on an exchange? Have you considered creating an IOU for some of it on BTS for the time being?


« Last Edit: April 04, 2016, 01:12:47 am by Empirical1.2 »
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Re: [ANN] [STEEM] Introducing Steem, Looking for Witnesses / Miners
« Reply #61 on: April 04, 2016, 01:20:43 am »

Having said that I can obviously see it has value, when will it be on an exchange? Have you considered creating an IOU for some of it on BTS for the time being?
See https://cryptofresh.com/a/STEEM
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Offline tonyk

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Re: [ANN] [STEEM] Introducing Steem, Looking for Witnesses / Miners
« Reply #62 on: April 04, 2016, 02:06:33 am »
so...
sbd stands for steem backed dollars

and steem stands for/comes from esteem/reputation not beam of light.?
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline donkeypong

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Re: [ANN] [STEEM] Introducing Steem, Looking for Witnesses / Miners
« Reply #63 on: April 04, 2016, 03:33:30 am »
Hey all, just came across this thread here.   :D

I was asked by the team to provide a little info about myself in order to be voted a witness. 
As many have, I joined the crypto world after the sudden increase in price and publicity a few years back now.  The latest project I've worked on in the crypto space is Synergy Cloud, a web based trading bot (similar to other basic bots out there) that allows users to trade across a few exchanges in reward for burning Synergy Coin.  I'm also very involved in the Coinbar project and spend a lot of time looking for new cryptos to get involved in and doing some trading here and there.   ;D  Professionally, I'm a project manager working for a large e-commerce company mainly focusing on machine learning.  I've got a good amount of hardware at my disposal and will continue to support the STEEM project. 

I look forward to getting to know some of you guys and moving forward with STEEM!

Welcome. I haven't understood a thing about this project yet (except that maybe STEEM won't get dumped as much as BitShares does), but it's good to see some innovation and more good people getting involved.

Offline rnglab

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Re: [ANN] [STEEM] Introducing Steem, Looking for Witnesses / Miners
« Reply #64 on: April 04, 2016, 06:53:30 am »
Very interesting.. +5%

Sparkle has come a long way :P


bter stated they'd honor their memory (coins) if we manage to pipe their steem into the dex.
they also said "pow ftw".

: P


Offline Tuck Fheman

Re: [ANN] [STEEM] Introducing Steem, Looking for Witnesses / Miners
« Reply #65 on: April 04, 2016, 07:00:32 pm »
bter stated they'd honor

Using "Bter" and "honor" in the same sentence always draws a smirk from me.
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Offline twitter

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Re: [ANN] [STEEM] Introducing Steem, Looking for Witnesses / Miners
« Reply #66 on: April 05, 2016, 04:11:02 am »



./steemd —miner='["accountname","${WIFPRIVATEKEY}"]' —witness='"accountname"' —seed-node="52.38.66.234:2001" —mining-threads=2

who can explain how to get accountname  and WIFPRIVATEKEY?

 :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
witness:

Offline Troglodactyl

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Re: [ANN] [STEEM] Introducing Steem, Looking for Witnesses / Miners
« Reply #67 on: April 05, 2016, 04:15:33 am »



./steemd —miner='["accountname","${WIFPRIVATEKEY}"]' —witness='"accountname"' —seed-node="52.38.66.234:2001" —mining-threads=2

who can explain how to get accountname  and WIFPRIVATEKEY?

 :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

The account name you just make up.  Pick something unique that no one else would use.  The WIFPRIVATEKEY you can get conveniently by running the STEEM or BitShares cli_wallet and using the suggest_brain_key command.

Offline Empirical1.2

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Re: [ANN] [STEEM] Introducing Steem, Looking for Witnesses / Miners
« Reply #68 on: April 05, 2016, 04:53:17 pm »
Interesting...

Some additional (long) thoughts on the project:

The SBD (which seems to be a USD pegged asset with a possible interest rate bonus on top) is interesting...

Now the question is will bytemaster's strategy work, or will it cause the Bitcoin community to treat this DAC like a pariah and stubbornly refuse to use it while yelling out words like "instamine." I can't wait to find out.

Is this already mostly coded?

If so can it be forked onto BTS or a separate DAC with an allocation strategy that greatly favours BTS holders?

The BTS SuperDAC was created with the intention of forking competitors where possible/valuable and this seems like such a scenario given it's based on BTS compatible code?

BTS is already a valuable Top 10 DAC with a large networked community  & an understanding of Graphene, while STEEM has been launched in a way that intentionally violated most crypto cultural regulations so it's value and ability to gain traction will be minimized.


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Offline santaclause102

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Re: [ANN] [STEEM] Introducing Steem, Looking for Witnesses / Miners
« Reply #69 on: April 05, 2016, 05:18:56 pm »
I assume Steem will largly be based on graphene...

Has a sharedrop (on bts) been discussed before?

Offline bytemaster

Re: [ANN] [STEEM] Introducing Steem, Looking for Witnesses / Miners
« Reply #70 on: April 05, 2016, 06:42:21 pm »
I assume Steem will largly be based on graphene...

Has a sharedrop (on bts) been discussed before?

The following parts of Steem reuse code from BitShares which was released under public domain shortly after Graphene was announced.

libraries/net - P2P network code is 100% the same
libraries/db - general purpose, blockchain agnostic, in-memory database

The following parts of Steem have been completely written from scratch:

libraries/chain
      - all operations used by the blockchain (transfer, etc)
      - all objects kept in memory
libraries/wallet
programs/cli_wallet

The following parts of Steem have been heavily adapted from BTS:
     - limit order operation and matching
   
The question of a share drop has been discussed internally and so far has been avoided for regulatory, support, and complexity reasons.

The current license of Steem prohibits unauthorized chains derived from the same code. 

Ned will respond with a more detailed response and policy. I just wanted to provide some 'facts' and not state any position one way or another on the decision to share drop or not.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline Empirical1.2

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Re: [ANN] [STEEM] Introducing Steem, Looking for Witnesses / Miners
« Reply #71 on: April 05, 2016, 06:49:42 pm »
Has a sharedrop (on bts) been discussed before?

Not yet to my knowledge.

I think it may be advisable to share-drop on BTS though because it seems to be a method for bootstrapping a competiting BitUSD which is what shareholders feared about VOTE DAC and why many agreed to the BTS merger.

Quote
There are many problems we need to resolve as a community:

1) We don't want to compete with ourselves and divide our network effect.
2) We don't want to confuse users with a million brands.
3) We want to have 1 BitUSD for everything rather than many different BitUSDs
5) I don't want to have divided loyalties... I cannot serve two masters.

My Proposal:

1) Drop all other BitShares brands.... rename BitShares X to just BitShares

There will still be other DACs based upon our toolkit  (Music, Gaming, DNS, etc) but those clones will not be dividing my loyalty because they have their own teams and are already known and operating independently of us.  Those who have joined those DACs can attempt to grow them how they see fit and BitShares will be competing with them where we can.

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,10148.0.html

I'm not sure yet, but it also seems like STEEM may be using dilution to fund an interest rate bonus...

The SBD (which seems to be a USD pegged asset with a possible interest rate bonus on top) is interesting.

Though unlikely, it's possibly similar to a concept I've been pushing to benefit BitUSD, https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,21597.0.html which BM hasn't ackowledged in the forum and only a few months ago believed wouldn't work.

That's $365 000 a year of dilution.  That could be  +5% on $7 500 000 worth of BitUSD.
Even with a lot of yield harvesting that would rapidly make BTS the undisputed Crypto USD market leader.
Providing yield on USD doesn't work because of yield harvesting, people would create USD and sit on it until the rate of return approached 0.

I don't know what the SBD liquidity subsidies are but they could also be the best combo from ideas formulated from the BitUSD liquidity thread, https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,21544.195.html

So SBD is potentially a competing BitUSD using concepts that could have helped bootstrap BitUSD or a USD on BTS.

So I don't think STEEM will necessarily be popular with BTS shareholders & given that they've intentionally violated a lot of the crypto communities cultural expectations they're unlikely to be popular with them either.

http://bytemaster.github.io/article/2016/03/27/How-to-Launch-a-Crypto-Currency-Legally-while-Raising-Funds/

Quote
Perhaps the Bitcoin Communities cultural regulations are a blessing in disguise. By intentionally violating every one of their expectations you can minimize your token’s value while still legally mining a token for minimal cost.

We have secured ~80% of the initial STEEM via mining.  Our plan is to keep 20%, sell 20% to raise money, and give away 40% to attract users / referrers.

We''ll have to wait to learn more but I think STEEM/SBD could be a BitUSD competitor and we should potentially be looking at options, forking/other to compete with it.



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Offline lil_jay890

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Re: [ANN] [STEEM] Introducing Steem, Looking for Witnesses / Miners
« Reply #72 on: April 05, 2016, 07:08:18 pm »
Has a sharedrop (on bts) been discussed before?

Not yet to my knowledge.

I think it may be advisable to share-drop on BTS though because it seems to be a method for bootstrapping a competiting BitUSD which is what shareholders feared about VOTE DAC and why many agreed to the BTS merger.

Quote
There are many problems we need to resolve as a community:

1) We don't want to compete with ourselves and divide our network effect.
2) We don't want to confuse users with a million brands.
3) We want to have 1 BitUSD for everything rather than many different BitUSDs
5) I don't want to have divided loyalties... I cannot serve two masters.

My Proposal:

1) Drop all other BitShares brands.... rename BitShares X to just BitShares

There will still be other DACs based upon our toolkit  (Music, Gaming, DNS, etc) but those clones will not be dividing my loyalty because they have their own teams and are already known and operating independently of us.  Those who have joined those DACs can attempt to grow them how they see fit and BitShares will be competing with them where we can.

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,10148.0.html

I'm not sure yet, but it also seems like STEEM may be using dilution to fund an interest rate bonus...

The SBD (which seems to be a USD pegged asset with a possible interest rate bonus on top) is interesting.

Though unlikely, it's possibly similar to a concept I've been pushing to benefit BitUSD, https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,21597.0.html which BM hasn't ackowledged in the forum and only a few months ago believed wouldn't work.

That's $365 000 a year of dilution.  That could be  +5% on $7 500 000 worth of BitUSD.
Even with a lot of yield harvesting that would rapidly make BTS the undisputed Crypto USD market leader.
Providing yield on USD doesn't work because of yield harvesting, people would create USD and sit on it until the rate of return approached 0.

I don't know what the SBD liquidity subsidies are but they could also be the best combo from ideas formulated from the BitUSD liquidity thread, https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,21544.195.html

So SBD is potentially a competing BitUSD using concepts that could have helped bootstrap BitUSD or a USD on BTS.

So I don't think STEEM will necessarily be popular with BTS shareholders & given that they've intentionally violated a lot of the crypto communities cultural expectations they're unlikely to be popular with them either.

http://bytemaster.github.io/article/2016/03/27/How-to-Launch-a-Crypto-Currency-Legally-while-Raising-Funds/

Quote
Perhaps the Bitcoin Communities cultural regulations are a blessing in disguise. By intentionally violating every one of their expectations you can minimize your token’s value while still legally mining a token for minimal cost.

We have secured ~80% of the initial STEEM via mining.  Our plan is to keep 20%, sell 20% to raise money, and give away 40% to attract users / referrers.

We''ll have to wait to learn more but I think STEEM/SBD could be a BitUSD competitor and we should potentially be looking at options, forking/other to compete with it.

So your saying that Steem is a direct competitor with BTS?

This is very confusing... Is this CNX's new project/chain that we paid to prevent during the merger?  Little did we know that we were actually funding the competition of BTS.

Now do we dump BTS for Steem or does Steem work with BTS?  It doesn't sound like it will be sharedrop.

Offline Empirical1.2

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Re: [ANN] [STEEM] Introducing Steem, Looking for Witnesses / Miners
« Reply #73 on: April 05, 2016, 07:31:51 pm »
Has a sharedrop (on bts) been discussed before?

Not yet to my knowledge.

I think it may be advisable to share-drop on BTS though because it seems to be a method for bootstrapping a competiting BitUSD which is what shareholders feared about VOTE DAC and why many agreed to the BTS merger.

Quote
There are many problems we need to resolve as a community:

1) We don't want to compete with ourselves and divide our network effect.
2) We don't want to confuse users with a million brands.
3) We want to have 1 BitUSD for everything rather than many different BitUSDs
5) I don't want to have divided loyalties... I cannot serve two masters.

My Proposal:

1) Drop all other BitShares brands.... rename BitShares X to just BitShares

There will still be other DACs based upon our toolkit  (Music, Gaming, DNS, etc) but those clones will not be dividing my loyalty because they have their own teams and are already known and operating independently of us.  Those who have joined those DACs can attempt to grow them how they see fit and BitShares will be competing with them where we can.

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,10148.0.html

I'm not sure yet, but it also seems like STEEM may be using dilution to fund an interest rate bonus...

The SBD (which seems to be a USD pegged asset with a possible interest rate bonus on top) is interesting.

Though unlikely, it's possibly similar to a concept I've been pushing to benefit BitUSD, https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,21597.0.html which BM hasn't ackowledged in the forum and only a few months ago believed wouldn't work.

That's $365 000 a year of dilution.  That could be  +5% on $7 500 000 worth of BitUSD.
Even with a lot of yield harvesting that would rapidly make BTS the undisputed Crypto USD market leader.
Providing yield on USD doesn't work because of yield harvesting, people would create USD and sit on it until the rate of return approached 0.

I don't know what the SBD liquidity subsidies are but they could also be the best combo from ideas formulated from the BitUSD liquidity thread, https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,21544.195.html

So SBD is potentially a competing BitUSD using concepts that could have helped bootstrap BitUSD or a USD on BTS.

So I don't think STEEM will necessarily be popular with BTS shareholders & given that they've intentionally violated a lot of the crypto communities cultural expectations they're unlikely to be popular with them either.

http://bytemaster.github.io/article/2016/03/27/How-to-Launch-a-Crypto-Currency-Legally-while-Raising-Funds/

Quote
Perhaps the Bitcoin Communities cultural regulations are a blessing in disguise. By intentionally violating every one of their expectations you can minimize your token’s value while still legally mining a token for minimal cost.

We have secured ~80% of the initial STEEM via mining.  Our plan is to keep 20%, sell 20% to raise money, and give away 40% to attract users / referrers.

We''ll have to wait to learn more but I think STEEM/SBD could be a BitUSD competitor and we should potentially be looking at options, forking/other to compete with it.

So your saying that Steem is a direct competitor with BTS?

This is very confusing... Is this CNX's new project/chain that we paid to prevent during the merger?  Little did we know that we were actually funding the competition of BTS.

Now do we dump BTS for Steem or does Steem work with BTS?  It doesn't sound like it will be sharedrop.

IMO, it seems SBD is a direct competitor with BitUSD and STEEM is a competitor with BTS in much the same way VOTE was. (In the case of VOTE there was an additional voting element provided by Adam/FMV in this case there's potentially an additional social media platform element provided by Ned.)

Edit: In terms of investing. You may be forced to hedge though my opinion is the way they've chosen to launch STEEM may severely limit its potential so we should definitely look at forking/incorporating the good elements into BTS as the market may attribute much more value to them on BTS.

Edit 2: Looks like this has been moved to random discussion...
« Last Edit: April 05, 2016, 07:37:35 pm by Empirical1.2 »
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Offline bytemaster

Re: [ANN] [STEEM] Introducing Steem, Looking for Witnesses / Miners
« Reply #74 on: April 05, 2016, 07:39:24 pm »
In many ways BTS has already benefited from the work done on Steem.  I have been systematically taking Steem innovations behind the scene and attempting to bridge them into BitShares (with a lot of resistance from some Steem investors).

1. Free Transactions - invented for Steem but offered to BTS first
2. Liquidity Rewards - invented for Steem but suggested to BTS first
3. Vesting Rewards  - presented to BitShares first, but rejected

The implementation of Liquidity Rewards in Steem actually uses an algorithm and ideas not suggested in the corresponding thread on BTS.

Unfortunately, BTS stakeholder voting is unwilling to fund the work necessary to implement these hard forks, let alone an entirely new wallet interface required by Steem.

SBD is an entirely different beast than BitAssets.  There is no shorting, no margin calls, and users cannot create it.

3. Interest on SBD is paid by creating new SBD from thin air and might never result in creation of STEEM

There are other reasons why Steem could not be built on BitShares:

1. It would need to be a separate asset due to its inflation scheme
2. bitshares is unable or unwilling to fund the development of something so speculative
3. bitshares is better served being an exchange and integrating with STEEM via a side chain
4. The backing of SBD cannot be BTS due to inflation
5. BTS protocol has historically been shifting with frequent hardforks, Steem aims to be a stable protocol with perhaps a single upgrade to add blinded transfers in the distant future.
6. We wanted to make some fundamental improvements to the transaction types
7. It would cost much more to build Steem on BitShares than start from scratch
8. we would have had to publicly debate the entire platform undermining marketing objectives and increasing costs.

In effect, STEEM would have ended up a "blockchain within a blockchain", users would have been forced to hold BTS and STEEM so they could transact, and the only value STEEM would gain is being natively listed on the BTS exchange. 

Building Steem on BitShares makes as much sense as CounterParty building on Bitcoin.

A objective and rational investor choosing to fund the development of Steem would have a hard time justifying building it on BitShares.

This reality is true of every DAPP and applies to Ethereum as much as it applies to BitShares. 

The conclusion is that BitShares needs to be a DAPP that directly serves a particular market and focus on growing that market rather than attempting to merge everything. 

The other conclusion is that for BitShares to attract entrepreneurs to build DAPPS on BTS it will require much higher levels of dilution than BTS is authorized even with 100% dilution. So perhaps we should consider how to empower users of BitShares with the features it currently has.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.